Home Office quotes Bible verses to prove Christianity is not a religion of peace
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Original post by londonmyst
No, although both of my parents are hardcore supporters of Irish republicanism.
My parents were the students of militant era, they remain revolutionary trade union socialists .
My maternal grandmother has ancestors from scotland, wales, canada and new zealand.
Her husband was english with some distant french ancestry and proudly claimed descent from members of the guy fawkes gang led by catesby.
Ultra traditionalist catholics often have a very insular mentality and prefer arranged marriages with relatives, although my mother's parents met by chance.
My mother had been engaged three times by the age of 22, two of them to men she had never met.
My father was engagement no 4- he didn't want to get married but my mother wouldn't agree to live with him without marriage.
My mother's father was a brutal authoritarian who used his religion the same way that he used his belt and his vile mother set the example he followed 95% of the time.
The only things that she disliked were his choice of wife, his conversion agenda and the fact that his violent rages escalated over the decades until they became impossible for her to control.
No.
Catholicism isn't based on ancestral bloodlines.
Although catholics who marry non-catholics in religious ceremonies do have to promise that all children they have will be brought up as catholics.
My parents didn't get married in church.
There is a lot of internal debate about what constitutes being catholic- baptism, confirmation, religious upbringing, active religious participation or just personal preference.
In northern ireland there are a lot of people who say that they are atheist catholics, defining being catholic by ancestral religious affiliations several generations ago instead of their own personal religious beliefs.
I have met people in northern ireland who call themselves atheist protestants too.
But all the people I know who do this seem to have a staunchly anti-theist agenda plus hostility to organised religion, along with a preference for separatist identity politics based upon other people's religious choices and the combination gives me a negative vibe.
My parents were the students of militant era, they remain revolutionary trade union socialists .
My maternal grandmother has ancestors from scotland, wales, canada and new zealand.
Her husband was english with some distant french ancestry and proudly claimed descent from members of the guy fawkes gang led by catesby.
Ultra traditionalist catholics often have a very insular mentality and prefer arranged marriages with relatives, although my mother's parents met by chance.
My mother had been engaged three times by the age of 22, two of them to men she had never met.
My father was engagement no 4- he didn't want to get married but my mother wouldn't agree to live with him without marriage.
My mother's father was a brutal authoritarian who used his religion the same way that he used his belt and his vile mother set the example he followed 95% of the time.
The only things that she disliked were his choice of wife, his conversion agenda and the fact that his violent rages escalated over the decades until they became impossible for her to control.
No.
Catholicism isn't based on ancestral bloodlines.
Although catholics who marry non-catholics in religious ceremonies do have to promise that all children they have will be brought up as catholics.
My parents didn't get married in church.
There is a lot of internal debate about what constitutes being catholic- baptism, confirmation, religious upbringing, active religious participation or just personal preference.
In northern ireland there are a lot of people who say that they are atheist catholics, defining being catholic by ancestral religious affiliations several generations ago instead of their own personal religious beliefs.
I have met people in northern ireland who call themselves atheist protestants too.
But all the people I know who do this seem to have a staunchly anti-theist agenda plus hostility to organised religion, along with a preference for separatist identity politics based upon other people's religious choices and the combination gives me a negative vibe.
Did you directly experience the environment that your parents grew up in with the tension that persisted? Your family appear to be very strong-willed people with views and approaches that would raise eyebrows today. I do understand that it was a different time, but still.
I dont know if I missed it, but are you Catholic and would you raise your family in the Catholic religion? If no, why not. If yes, why?
Do you think that we should do away with all religion? There is an argument that says religion helps humans to be sane. Without religion, there would be more chaos because people would have not reason to act right. Do you agree?
How has your family experience evolved since the time of your mother’s father?
Original post by JaJa18796
Just out of curiosity what is it that made you hate this religion so much?
Just read the Bible with an open mind and you will see for yourself. Ponder on why such cruelty and arbitrary barbaric justice is necessary and ask yourself whether you want to be associated with such a sick deity. A truly all-loving and all-powerful god would be able to find another way.
Original post by Tootles
I thought unquestioningly accepting all dogma and ex cathedra pronouncements by the Pope was an absolute requirement of all Roman Catholics? Especially dogma - iirc rejecting any dogma is instant excommunication.
I dunno, you'd make a good Anglican. Sadly we can believe what we want. While I'm mostly Orthodox there are Anglicans who think none of it matters and you just go sing silly songs once a week.
NB I am not inviting you to be an Anglican - it's just how you come across, that your outlook is compatible with the CofE.
I thought unquestioningly accepting all dogma and ex cathedra pronouncements by the Pope was an absolute requirement of all Roman Catholics? Especially dogma - iirc rejecting any dogma is instant excommunication.
I dunno, you'd make a good Anglican. Sadly we can believe what we want. While I'm mostly Orthodox there are Anglicans who think none of it matters and you just go sing silly songs once a week.
NB I am not inviting you to be an Anglican - it's just how you come across, that your outlook is compatible with the CofE.
The catholic fundamentalist wing, ultras/traditionalists and some of more hardline religious conservative elements would likely agree with the automatic unquestioning acceptance, unless vatican ii was mentioned.
When vatican ii is mentioned, the conversation quickly degenerates into a medieval-esque snarling match with a lot of aggressive personal abuse and latin.
Roman catholicism is a very broad church, one which houses a variety of approaches (liberal, reform, conservative, traditionalist/hardline, ultra-traditionalist and fundamentalist).
Plenty of contrasting cultural traditions too, ranging from the more conciliatory humanist attitude of Jesuits to the more austere doctrinal hardliners of opus dei/ SSPX.
I'm not including the sedevacantist fundamentalists who stormed out decades ago excommunicating everyone else and leaving behind only echoes of dark age bellowing with a few very strange conspiracy theories.
I have been to CofE services, orthodox services and a few other protestant churches.
But I'm not keen on the nature or direction of CofE activism.
Perhaps it is the lasting legacy of Rowan William's tenure as AofC.
Original post by AJ126
Yes now it is.But it's history is long and bloody.The crusades ring a bell? The inquisition? The troubles? How about all those nice Catholic orphanages in northern Ireland where they murdered babies? Christianity is far from innocent.Its just mellowing in it's old age.Islam will too.
Don't confuse Christianity with religion that trades in it's name!
Jesus gave the Revelation which warns of the rise of false Christianity ("the mother of harlots"), and it's fall.
"Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence." (John 18:36)
Original post by NJA
Don't confuse Christianity with religion that trades in it's name!
Jesus gave the Revelation which warns of the rise of false Christianity ("the mother of harlots"), and it's fall.
Jesus gave the Revelation which warns of the rise of false Christianity ("the mother of harlots"), and it's fall.
Yup. That is principal 7 from the create a religion manual - tell the world to beware of imposters.
Original post by GetGradenines
KKK: hold my bear
New Zealand white terrorist seconds your reply
New Zealand white terrorist seconds your reply
If we were to report the number of terrorist attacks caused by islam or that were done in the name of Islam we would have too many to mention, I mean Islamic fundimentalists had set up a massive state in the middle east and fought years of war.
Original post by Tootles
It's neither. You become a member of the Church on baptism. Nobody is born into the Church, they are born again into it.
It's neither. You become a member of the Church on baptism. Nobody is born into the Church, they are born again into it.
Oh ok.
Original post by Wired_1800
Did you directly experience the environment that your parents grew up in with the tension that persisted? Your family appear to be very strong-willed people with views and approaches that would raise eyebrows today. I do understand that it was a different time, but still.
I dont know if I missed it, but are you Catholic and would you raise your family in the Catholic religion? If no, why not. If yes, why?
Do you think that we should do away with all religion? There is an argument that says religion helps humans to be sane. Without religion, there would be more chaos because people would have not reason to act right. Do you agree?
How has your family experience evolved since the time of your mother’s father?
I dont know if I missed it, but are you Catholic and would you raise your family in the Catholic religion? If no, why not. If yes, why?
Do you think that we should do away with all religion? There is an argument that says religion helps humans to be sane. Without religion, there would be more chaos because people would have not reason to act right. Do you agree?
How has your family experience evolved since the time of your mother’s father?
I'm catholic, one of the laziest in existence.
My family tree is filled with dogma fanatics, that's why I'm very cautious of identity politics zealots both religious/secular and their various causes.
In a way it's ironic how my father and his militant atheist group rant on about the omnipotent being they don't believe in, more often than most sane religious believers mention the G word.
Many militant atheists and anti-theist zealots are just as unpleasant as religious zealots- same bullying imposition, same lack of tolerance for other people's views and belief that its ok to just opt out of national law.
If I had children with a man who was atheist, protestant or from another religion- I would share his beliefs along with mine then leave the child/children to decide what they want to believe in.
I believe that people choose their own religion (beliefs, interpretation & practice), the same way that they choose their politics or music/lunch.
I would teach what different religions/denominations believe and share my own beliefs.
But I draw the line at any attempts at imposing subjective ideological allegiances on other people against their wishes- particularly when attempts aimed at indoctrination or conversion.
My mother's father never spoke to her again after the day he and his mother beat her unconscious, then locked her in a room unconscious in a pool of blood on the floor.
She was helped by a friendly member of the household staff who preferred the delights of the pub and gambling dens to violent ultra traditionalist catholicism.
I keep a momentum of that incident- a rather bloodthirsty looking antique teddy bear that still smells of my mother's blood. After decades of washing.
My mother was disinherited, shunned by almost all her family's social circle and when her father died he left instructions that she was not to be allowed to come to his funeral.
She still lights candles for him and prays for his forgiveness, although she knows it would take a miracle.
But my mother inherited a fiery temper along with the red hair and an autocratic attitude that children should immediately obey parents, even as adults.
History repeating itself, in an uncanny circle of life where the present/future echo the events of the past.
My maternal grandmother is pretty much surrounded by the same crowd of horrid religious fanatics she associated with when her husband was alive.
She was married as a teenager and is now in her 80s.
Her husband was much older than her, most of his friends died decades ago.
Her group are mostly sedevacantists with some opus dei members.
A few traditionalists who call themselves "dogmatic sedevacantists" to indicate that they have reasonably good manners and are law abiding.
A horrifying group of individuals: noisy, deranged, violent and most of them with long criminal records.
Their religion is openly medieval, involves long damnation prayers and venerates the very worst of historical figures/atrocities.
My grandmother is never violent, violence scares her- that was her husband and his mother's tactic often used against her.
But her religious theories were probably more extreme than the rest of the family- to the point that her mother in law questioned her sanity.
One was "posthumous adultery" where a widow remarrying is adultery, shamefully disloyal and a mortal sin comparable to murder.
Her husband kept sedevacantists at a distance, got angry when they abused the papacy and banned anyone in the household from funding sedevacantist activities.
Original post by AperfectBalance
If we were to report the number of terrorist attacks caused by islam or that were done in the name of Islam we would have too many to mention, I mean Islamic fundimentalists had set up a massive state in the middle east and fought years of war.
You cannot even compare what the KKK did, or what people like george bush and tony blair, who made the decisions to kill millions of innocent civillians, they would be too many to mention
Original post by Good bloke
The violence in the Bible is no laughing matter. The god that Christians worship is well known to be a vengeful, violent, brutish and arbitrary despot, threatening cruel retribution to sinners and non-believers, and perpetrating genocide on several occasions. The Book of Revelations is particularly nasty in its dire prognostication.
Original post by Good bloke
Just read the Bible with an open mind and you will see for yourself. Ponder on why such cruelty and arbitrary barbaric justice is necessary and ask yourself whether you want to be associated with such a sick deity. A truly all-loving and all-powerful god would be able to find another way.
Funny how you hate someone or in your view, something that doesn't exist. If he isn't real and is just a concoction of a rather long lasting and very very sophisticated delusion, why do you bother yourself?
I find you Atheists very hilarious, you rage against a God, who you'll claim to swear doesn't exist....in reality though, you can only shove your head into the sand for so long. You, along with every human on the planet are only here for a short time, a vapor, Jesus called it, to signify how infinitesimal anybody's time is in this life. You'll die and meet the God you claim doesn't exist.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by GetGradenines
You cannot even compare what the KKK did, or what people like george bush and tony blair, who made the decisions to kill millions of innocent civillians, they would be too many to mention
You really can.
you must have failed your sats, because even 11 year olds can prove you wrong.
Original post by AperfectBalance
You really can.
Original post by Good bloke
The violence in the Bible is no laughing matter. The god that Christians worship is well known to be a vengeful, violent, brutish and arbitrary despot, threatening cruel retribution to sinners and non-believers, and perpetrating genocide on several occasions. The Book of Revelations is particularly nasty in its dire prognostication.
Majority of Christians don't go by the Old Testament though. All Muslims follow the Qu'ran however.
Original post by That'sGreat
Majority of Christians don't go by the Old Testament though. All Muslims follow the Qu'ran however.
Because they cherrypick their belief system, which is stupid. You either believe in everything or you don't.
Original post by GetGradenines
KKK: hold my bear
New Zealand white terrorist seconds your reply
New Zealand white terrorist seconds your reply
*Begins to list the countless Muslim grooming gangs, terrorist attacks, murdering of homosexuals and much much more* Actually, I haven't got enough time for this.
Original post by Wired_1800
Because they cherrypick their belief system, which is stupid. You either believe in everything or you don't.
The New Testament basically disregards the Old Testament. That's not cherrypicking, thats removing a whole book and basically transforming the religion. If the Qu'ran did this, it wouldn't be an issue, but considering it's still a couple thousand years or so behind Christianity, I'd expect theres a fair bit of time before they update it.
Original post by Wired_1800
Because they cherrypick their belief system, which is stupid. You either believe in everything or you don't.
Not really, It just means the general definition of christian has changed
Original post by That'sGreat
The New Testament basically disregards the Old Testament. That's not cherrypicking, thats removing a whole book and basically transforming the religion. If the Qu'ran did this, it wouldn't be an issue, but considering it's still a couple thousand years or so behind Christianity, I'd expect theres a fair bit of time before they update it.
*You could make a religion out of this*
Original post by Wired_1800
Because they cherrypick their belief system, which is stupid. You either believe in everything or you don't.
I absolutely agree.
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