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One million marched, and 4.5million signatures...

So one million marched and 4.5million people signed the petition in the course of a few days...That's a huge number. But, why should we take that number seriously, but not the 17.4 million who voted Leave in a single day?

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Reply 1
Avatar for Couragenh
Couragenh
OP
9
But they already got affected by Brexit when UK voted to join EU in 1973 when they were the same age as the people voting to REMAIN. Hasn't their experience in the past 50 years given them a better assessment of the situation? Besides, why would they want to screw over their grand children by Leaving EU?
(edited 5 years ago)
No sane government is going to pursue a policy based on an online petition and a march.
Grow up.
Original post by Andrew97
No sane government is going to pursue a policy based on an online petition and a march.



I don't think the march is significant; just the usual suspects.

The petition is sightly more significant, but what is really, really significant is that there isn't a 5 million strong petition for Leave. Farage is attracting minimal followers and there was no attempt at a counter-protest in London. All of that despite it being obvious that Brexit is being betrayed.

The keyboard warriors on here and elsewhere are evenly balanced but what happens with those who realise they are on the wrong side of a political contest is that they slink away. That is what is currently happening with Brexit and most politicians will be aware of it. The 17 million are no longer there.That is where the PM has lost it. She thinks that most care deeply that Brexit is being betrayed. No they don't. What were the viewing figures for her speech to the nation? Did people stop and watch it on their phones or did they carry on with their lives?
Original post by nulli tertius
I don't think the march is significant; just the usual suspects.

The petition is sightly more significant, but what is really, really significant is that there isn't a 5 million strong petition for Leave. Farage is attracting minimal followers and there was no attempt at a counter-protest in London. All of that despite it being obvious that Brexit is being betrayed.

The keyboard warriors on here and elsewhere are evenly balanced but what happens with those who realise they are on the wrong side of a political contest is that they slink away. That is what is currently happening with Brexit and most politicians will be aware of it. The 17 million are no longer there.That is where the PM has lost it. She thinks that most care deeply that Brexit is being betrayed. No they don't. What were the viewing figures for her speech to the nation? Did people stop and watch it on their phones or did they carry on with their lives?


It because our side won we don’t need gather these kinds of things on scale in the minds of people who have won a democratic vote- yet.

Also bear in mind most protesters at Westminster are usually from the south east which is heavily remain it’s easier.
Original post by paul514
It because our side won we don’t need gather these kinds of things on scale in the minds of people who have won a democratic vote- yet.

Also bear in mind most protesters at Westminster are usually from the south east which is heavily remain it’s easier.

I don't think you are right. I think this weekend Brexit became the Jacobite cause. People don't change their minds. They just stop giving emotional capital.

Leaving aside Leadsom who is too stupid, the other Cabinet Brexiteers are looking to save their skins. They will hope Gove can carry a second referendum on May's Deal because that is the best chance of saving the Party. Revoking Article 50 would finish the Party. Canada Plus is a one way bet for Labour. They take the credit in the unlikely event it is a success. The Tories get the blame otherwise.

The Remainers may not care about the Party. They may want to be rid of the Membership. They probably want a southern European type of Party; a cheering section for the leaders but with the spear carriers having no influence over policy.
(edited 5 years ago)
Original post by nulli tertius
I don't think you are right. I think this weekend Brexit became the Jacobite cause. People don't change their minds. They just stop giving emotional capital.

Pretty good way of putting it. In many ways the interesting thing isn't the size of the Remainer march, it's that Leavers haven't been able to put together any similar protest of any real scale. They aren't ready to make the sacrifices to get it.

Or put it this way. If Brexiters had managed to put together a clear display of enthusiastic public support on this scale (i.e. a 1 million strong march and a 4.5m petition) for any Brexit outcome - whether a soft Brexit, or May's deal, or no deal - then I find it hard to believe that that wouldn't have a significant sway on the minds of MPs towards that outcome.
Reply 8
Avatar for moggis
moggis
18
The houses in my street have gone down in value by between £40,000 to £60,000.

Not good news for oldies ,better news for younger people.
Reply 9
Avatar for moggis
moggis
18
Original post by nulli tertius
I don't think the march is significant; just the usual suspects.

The petition is sightly more significant, but what is really, really significant is that there isn't a 5 million strong petition for Leave. Farage is attracting minimal followers and there was no attempt at a counter-protest in London. All of that despite it being obvious that Brexit is being betrayed.

The keyboard warriors on here and elsewhere are evenly balanced but what happens with those who realise they are on the wrong side of a political contest is that they slink away. That is what is currently happening with Brexit and most politicians will be aware of it. The 17 million are no longer there.That is where the PM has lost it. She thinks that most care deeply that Brexit is being betrayed. No they don't. What were the viewing figures for her speech to the nation? Did people stop and watch it on their phones or did they carry on with their lives?


Not often I see you say something that could possibly be wide of the mark but this might be one time.

What has happened is the inevitable consequence of the length of time this is all taking .
Together with the fact that many people still aren’t sure whether or not Brexit is being betrayed . Or to what extent it is.

It is however probably true that some of the 17 million are now less bothered . But it would be a very big mistake to think that most of the 17 million won’t be very angry if we don’t leave .
I could be wrong though .
I want us to remain so that the two party system is badly damaged because of the loss of trust etc so I would be disappointed if we remain and there is little reaction.
Original post by moggis
Not often I see you say something that could possibly be wide of the mark but this might be one time.

What has happened is the inevitable consequence of the length of time this is all taking .
Together with the fact that many people still aren’t sure whether or not Brexit is being betrayed . Or to what extent it is.

It is however probably true that some of the 17 million are now less bothered . But it would be a very big mistake to think that most of the 17 million won’t be very angry if we don’t leave .
I could be wrong though .
I want us to remain so that the two party system is badly damaged because of the loss of trust etc so I would be disappointed if we remain and there is little reaction.

I may be wrong, but there seems to be a change. The Brexiteers have had all of the best tunes for the last three years, but suddenly they are not playing anything any more.
Original post by Couragenh
But they already got affected by Brexit when UK voted to join EU in 1973 when they were the same age as the people voting to REMAIN. Hasn't their experience in the past 50 years given them a better assessment of the situation? Besides, why would they want to screw over their grand children by Leaving EU?


Being old =/= Being informed or intelligent.

They've been screwing their children and grandchildren for decades. Why would that change now?
Original post by Couragenh
So one million marched and 4.5million people signed the petition in the course of a few days...That's a huge number. But, why should we take that number seriously, but not the 17.4 million who voted Leave in a single day?


Because firstly, the 17.4 million who voted Leave did so almost three years ago. It is far from clear that all of them still want to Leave


And secondly, the people who voted to Leave three years ago did not specifically vote for Theresa May’s Deal, nor did they vote for No Deal. Rather they voted for a parliament that is not happy with either of these options. Any option that goes through would be occurring without their consent.

Even if it is still true that the majority of the British people want to Leave the EU, a People’s Vote is needed to establish what kind of Brexit that the majority wants. Then we’ll know whether to leave with May’s Deal, No Deal, or a different deal altogether.


Remember that a People’s Vote doesn’t automatically equate to “Remain”. It simply equates to whatever result the public wants
(edited 5 years ago)
Reply 13
Avatar for Molseh
Molseh
19
I find it hilarious when leave voters keep saying they 'won'. What have they won exactly? We are still in the EU, we aren't going to be leaving with a good deal and if No Deal leave happens no one wins. The pound is hilariously weak and many companies have already moved their HQ/Manufacturing/Services elsewhere. Doesn't look like a win to me.
Original post by Andrew97
No sane government is going to pursue a policy based on an online petition and a march.


A general strike however... :holmes:
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
A general strike however... :holmes:

Is there a prospect of that happening?
Original post by nulli tertius
I don't think the march is significant; just the usual suspects.

The petition is sightly more significant, but what is really, really significant is that there isn't a 5 million strong petition for Leave. Farage is attracting minimal followers and there was no attempt at a counter-protest in London. All of that despite it being obvious that Brexit is being betrayed.

The keyboard warriors on here and elsewhere are evenly balanced but what happens with those who realise they are on the wrong side of a political contest is that they slink away. That is what is currently happening with Brexit and most politicians will be aware of it. The 17 million are no longer there.That is where the PM has lost it. She thinks that most care deeply that Brexit is being betrayed. No they don't. What were the viewing figures for her speech to the nation? Did people stop and watch it on their phones or did they carry on with their lives?


Umm....but why should we create a petition to leave when we already are leaving?
Original post by AzureCeleste
Umm....but why should we create a petition to leave when we already are leaving?

Do you seriously believe that as of today the political debate is anything other than between BRINO, a referendum or revoking Article 50?
Reply 18
Avatar for Couragenh
Couragenh
OP
9
Original post by tazarooni89
Because firstly, the 17.4 million who voted Leave did so almost three years ago. It is far from clear that all of them still want to Leave


And secondly, the people who voted to Leave three years ago did not specifically vote for Theresa May’s Deal, nor did they vote for No Deal. Rather they voted for a parliament that is not happy with either of these options. Any option that goes through would be occurring without their consent.

Even if it is still true that the majority of the British people want to Leave the EU, a People’s Vote is needed to establish what kind of Brexit that the majority wants. Then we’ll know whether to leave with May’s Deal, No Deal, or a different deal altogether.


Remember that a People’s Vote doesn’t automatically equate to “Remain”. It simply equates to whatever result the public wants


The referendum was to either Remain or Leave- that's true. Remember the Leave vote was to cut ties with EU so a People's Vote to determine what Brexit deal should reflect this. Maybe Cameron was ill-advised to call for the Referendum at that time. The government had a pre-determined outcome in mind, and I would argue that this pre-determined outcome is still what's on their mind- REMAIN. Cameron though he would win, but lost. And now Theresa May seems to be negotiating in bad faith. In the three years that nothing has happened, Leavers have their resolve strengthened because the so-called undemocratic EU institutions are frustrating the intentions of UK leaving (eg, No Common market without Free Movement). And you have other Leavers who would just give up because of the tedious negotiations.

This raises questions: Did/ is Theresa May negotiating in good or bad faith? Would the outcome of Brexit negotiations been different if Gove or BoJo had been the Prime Minister?
Reply 19
Avatar for Medrat
Medrat
12
Original post by nulli tertius
Do you seriously believe that as of today the political debate is anything other than between BRINO, a referendum or revoking Article 50?


What happened today? Serious question. If you are referencing the march, then it's just a march. Nothing more. If you are referencing a petition, then it's just an online petition. Not verifiable in the same way as legitimate voting. Nothing has actually happened. People reading too much into things - and look what happened last time people over-assumed (Brexit, Trump),.
(edited 5 years ago)

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