Labour pledges £10 minimum wage for under-18s

I don't think they intended to, but the argument they used against increasing the minimum wage (to £10 for everyone) is also an attack on the minimum wage's existence. And you are doing the same here. The point of having the minimum wage is so that desperate people who could easily be negotiated down in their pay due to their desperation by an employer, no longer can be. What that level should be is up for debate, but with the costs of living increasing, it makes sense to incorporate that into the minimum wage (if you agree with it) over time as well. This £10 minimum wage isn't Labour's pledge for all time, I am certain they will propose ever higher figures in future, as would the Tories (though they would drag their heels more). All of those increases will prevent other employees' pay from increasing as much (or reduces dividends paid to shareholders, reduces investment in the company etc, the company's choice which to prioritise), we know this, but by and large we support the existence of the NMW.

Yes, there are many points of view Thom.
I don't think there should be a minimum wage at all.

It is manipulating natural market forces.

If an employer wants staff he has to offer a sufficient incentive - if the wage (incentive) is insufficient, he will not get staff until he raises it to what he can afford.

If the employer has to pay more than he can afford, he will not be able to have staff and his business will either collapse or fall on his shoulders as a one man business.

At the moment there are plenty of jobs and the economy is booming, but when the economy shrinks job offers will disappear and millions will end up on benefits - the country can't afford too many people on benefits so the consequence will be a financial crisis because of a minimum wage.

Perhaps you can put the onus on desperate unemployed people to unionise, but the fact remains that people will still undercut others who are trying to improve working conditions for everyone, a 'good' thing to do in many people's eyes.

Is that intrinsically a bad thing? Natural market forces would see the elephant and rhino hunted to extinction, for instance.


You are looking at it from only one side. Governments also have a responsibility to the employees, and quality of life for them is a factor.


True, but this is not as precise a calculation as you are implying it is. Businesses won't go under if one employee is overpaid by a penny. There is plenty of room between paying the minimum an employee will accept and the maximum financially possible - the NMW narrows this gap on behalf of desperate employees, but does not close it.

It is possible for the minimum wage to be set too high, but you're arguing against the very existence of the NMW claiming it would be the sole cause of a financial crisis. What do you think of tax credits?

That's just ridiculous, people under 20 are generally useless and can do nothing more than carrying boxes around. £10 minimum would make all of you completely unemployable Labour are either morons or really evil. £10 is more that what a regional manager of a fast food chain makes and that is the boss of your future boss

Labours are essentially communists, they promise whatever they can just to get votes of all available morons around.

The main problem with socialism/communism is that eventually you will run out of others people money and then everything goes to hell.

There is a parallel arguement going on within disability cricles about minimum wage exceptions for disabled people. Most think that it's essential for people to not descriminate and that all people should be paid the same.. but there is a growing number of activists who would like to see minimum wage exemptions possible to enable more disabled people to work and have fulfilling lives.

Take my friend as an example. He is very autistic, and has a degree in a good area.. but he can't get a job in that area at all. Its too competative and he can't compete with non autistic applicants.. he's just not able to give the companies the same value for the same money. So what's happened is he was unemployed for ages, then got a very low level job in a kitchen. Entirely unrelated to his field. He is miserable and feels like a failure.

Now what if the companies in his profession were able to pay him half as much, if he could apply for an exception from the minimum wage/equal pay etc. There is a rate of pay where he would be a great asset to a company, it's just not at the same rate as their other employees. Personally I think his life would be miles better if he could get s job in his field, even if he was paid less.. no one else knows it, in the eyes of society he is just normal, and he feels like he made it. Its not fair, but for his mental health and quality of life, it would be a huge improvement.

This isn't related to under 18s di4ectly but just in the sense that there are a lot of interesting arguements about the concept of a universal minimum wage, and plenty of times where it may not actually help some people

I'm now an 'ancient' - life has flashed by in a blink of an eye - When I needed certain specific things, like carving wooden signs, I would go to a large government funded organisation where disabled people were employed. They did a really good job. The National Trust bought their goods - it couldn't have been very profitable - I don't know whether it still exists, but it should do and the disabled people working there felt a great sense of achievement.
Maybe such places are still sponsored by the government - Google knows everything - ask Google!

Do you mean places like the old "workshops for the blind". My grandpa used to manage one before he retired, they gave great operthnities for disabled people.. I don't know if they still exist either, I only know that the one he specifically worked in was closed down a few years after he retired

I just wonder what employer would employ a 16 year old school leaver with a few GCSEs and no work experience which they have to train and have to pay them the same as an over 25-year-old with seven years of work experience and few GCSEs.

- Minimum wage increases
- Now there is more people on minimum wage (E.g. if it goes from £7.50 to £10 then now the people on £10 are now on minimum wage)
- Businesses realise their costs are higher and therefore increase prices
- Cost of living goes up, so the minimum wage is now just as useful as it was before, except now more people are on minimum wage
- People moan that minimum wage is too low
This cycle repeats indefinitely and just proves why free market capitalism is much superior to government interference.

I completely agree with this statement.

I know a small family shop owner based in my city, he has traded for years out of about 4 corner shops and what once was a profitable business is now becoming less and less so due to increases in living wage.

I don’t doubt that paying everyone a fair wage for the work they do is important. Yet in this scenario this trader is forced to find the money for increases in wages through increasing the cost of goods he sells which makes him even less competitive than the likes of Asda and Tesco.

It is my belief a minimum wage increase such as this mentioned for under 18s would simply kill off many small traders like this one mentioned here, and reward staff with an unnecessarily high remuneration in relation to the work they are doing.

I do note however this money is said to be partly paid by HMRC straight to traders, but even then this money will have to come from somewhere in the form of taxes or national insurance. with a crippling NHS and broken social security system I can see much better uses of this money.