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Second referendum, yes or no?

Should the UK hold a confirmationary referendum on Brexit before we leave on the 31st October?

There's a number of reasons both sides might argue:

Arguments for a second referendum:
The public weren't fully aware of what they were voting for in 2016; since then, far more information has come to light.

The EU elections saw strong support for parties that call for a second referendum; about 40% of the vote went to parties calling for a second vote.

Theresa May's deal is incredibly unpopular, and the EU have made it clear it is the most they're willing to offer.

Though some would have, many Leave voters might not have voted leave if they realised that their only options were between May's deal or no-deal.

Arguments against a second referendum:
We've already had one.

Labour and the Conservatives both pledged to honour the referendum result in the 2017 General election; between them winning 80% of the popular vote.

The Brexit party won the single largest share of the vote in the EU elections.

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These are by no means exhaustive lists, but they're solid foundations for the arguments on each side.

So, should we have a second referendum; yes or no? Which way would you vote if you said yes?

(edited 4 years ago)

Reply 1

arigziegler

Yes. I feel like if Leave won again all the remainers will be more inclined to accept the result since we all know what's at stake now.

Yes

second referendum = no, absolute disaster.

but an election, with both of the two main parties representing opposite views in their manifestos (1 for hard brexit, 1 for second rerendum) = yes please.

--

I get that people want to find a way forward, hence why I would support another election, as long as the parties stand on either side of the fence... but the idea that you can fix a mess caused by a referendum, by repeating the mistake is beyond foolish.

Reply 4

Neilos

I suppose if parliament can't make up its mind, a public vote to leave with no deal, or leave with government deal, would be OK.

But no re-runs of the 2016 referendum. That'd just either put us back to where we are now (Remainers refusing to accept it) or put us into a best-of-three mess that would probably run until 2022 or thereabouts.

Reply 5

xDron3

Let's say if we do have a second referendum and remain win.

Would we be stuck in limbo for another 3 years because leave wouldn't accept the result? It'll just end up in a cirlce and might end up in riots / violence.

Reply 6

Andrew97

Entertainment Forum Helper, Debate & Current Affairs Helper

The issue with a second Referendum is why would leave supporters have any faith in it? The first hasn't been implemented.
Furthermore the losing side would have no reason to accept. If leave lose they can just say "well last time we had another vote, so we should be able to vote again"

Asking the same question time and time again often gives the same answer.

Reply 7

Andrew97

Entertainment Forum Helper, Debate & Current Affairs Helper

Original post by arigziegler

Yes. I feel like if Leave won again all the remainers will be more inclined to accept the result since we all know what's at stake now.

The issue is why would leave believe that would happen?

Reply 8

aa-k

Only if Remain isn't an option.

Reply 9

No Face

For starters, it is hilarious to see that the Brexit party claim that a 2nd referendum would be undemocratic. Consider what your reaction would be if you read that in Venezuela for example, that 6 million people had signed a petition and over a million had marched for a certain cause and they were still having their voices silenced. Ignoring the views of those who clearly want an option to reverse Brexit is undemocratic, and the only reason that it is framed as a violation of democracy is that there is a possibility that those who wanted to leave would lose the second referendum. However, that is an appalling excuse, if you coordinate "democracy" so that a considerable movement of people are ignored simply because they oppose your view, then we will live in a dictatorship. Switzerland should be an example for the whole world if 100,000 signatures are obtained for a certain issue, then the government has to call for a referendum. Additionally, there is a confirmatory vote to ensure that the legislation negotiated is satisfactory and has public approval. If there is no second referendum (which could lead to a reversal of the process), we will inevitably face a situation where the new Tory leader joyfully accepts no-deal and allows the country to be ravaged by disaster capitalists.

Reply 10

username4540078

A second referendum offers a wonderful opportunity to bypass the deadlock in parliament and deliver Brexit.

If Brexiters truly believed the British people wanted Brexit, they’d support a second referendum.

Reply 11

scorpion95

I don't know for the following reasons

If there is another referendum the options on the ballot paper would and should only be 2 options to choose. Any more than two options would bias the ballot paper towards the remoaners which if so would be even more undemocratic than it would be. The remoaners would have to choose which option they would want on the paper either 'deal' or 'remain' as the 2nd option has to be 'no deal'. If 'deal' and 'remain' are both on the paper that is the bias towards remaining which can't be allowed. 'No deal' has be an option by default on the paper as this is the result from the first referendum.

The thing that gets me though is the fact that the remoaners want another referendum however what happens if the result of it is 'no deal' will they then want another one stating that the leave voters are too uneducated to know what they were doing. The remoaners were confident in the first referendum that they would win but they lost by a massive number of voters and they seem to be confident with the second one how can they be so sure that they will win on the second one.

What happens after the second referendum if some how the remoaners win, the last few years would have been even more of a waste and damage to the country than currently. Would they support or allow a third referendum regardless of the result of the second referendum? If they lost the second one would they push for a third one or finally accept the result. If they won would they allow the leave voters to have a third referendum or block it fully.

Reply 12

TreeFellOnMe

I was initially for it in order to get a move on, it would at least give a legal backing to justify telling one side to shut up, whether it's remain or leave. However, now I am all for just revocation, especially since the cult of Brexiteers is far bigger than anyone believes and the far right leaders and populists have created a situation where the Brexiteers feel they a cornered cat fighting for what they believe in so they'll never stop or be convinced.

Reply 13

tazarooni89

I am in favour of a People’s Vote.

I don’t like to call it a “second referendum”, because that implies it would be essentially a repeat of the June 2016 referendum, in which we voted to Leave the EU.

I simply believe that the people shouldn’t be forced to accept a particular exit deal, or no deal, or indeed the revocation of Article 50, without giving their explicit consent to it.

If you tell a taxi driver that you want to leave your house, it doesn’t mean that he now gets to decide where to take you, via a route of his choice. You still have the final say regarding the direction of travel at all times. I think the same applies here.

Reply 14

Bang Outta Order

Original post by Trotsky's Iceaxe

do you people truly listen to yourselves? a referendum got us in this "deadlock" in the first place...what good will a 2nd one do..? it's just 3 years lost. At the end of the day, a 2nd referendum is only in place because remainers didn't like the outcome of the first one! Also, the first referendum vote is NOT why there's a "deadlock." It's the inaction of incompetent cowards in office. If Leave was voted in the 2nd one, would remainers leave it alone? Would parliament act? No. Because it would be the same outcome. Same decisions to make. So clearly this a vote for remainers to try to win, not to leave a "deadlock."

A 2nd vote will only be met with the same incompetence and cowardice.

Not that you nor I speak for society. So no matter how many people agree or disagree with what either of us say, it means nothing in the end, so do your best :h:

Reply 15

fallen_acorns

- our broken electoral system leads to a situation where the opinion of the majority of voters on one of the most important issues isn't represented by any of the main political parties
- we try and cover over the problem by having a referendum
- the referendum causes a democratic and constitutional crisis, and plunges us into a 3 year long mess. We have parties that don't represent their constitutions, leaders that don't support their main policies, no unity at all within either party, an opposition with the same policy as the goverment etc. etc.

how are we going to solve this problem? Lets have another referendum, hope we get a different results and cover up the cracks in our system again?

or lets actually fix the problem that caused this mess in the first place, and reform our democracy in a way that actually works for our modern society.

To fix our problems we need two things:
1, electoral reform, giving us propper representation
2, a new general election

All a referendum does is give the possibility of going back to where we were 3 years ago.. safe from brexit, but still with a massivly broken political system, and a huge number of people growing increasingly angry and feeling unrepresented. It doesn't solve our problems in the longrun, it just covers them up.

Reply 16

username5023962

To be honest, it is what it says on the tin. They asked the question and got an answer, plus both parties said they would honour it.
Don't know why the hell Labour are pushing for this tho, it wouldn't do any good at best and screw over Britain at worst.