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What do you think of this? (Transgender athletes)

You may or may not know that a Youtuber called "Rationality Rules" has caused a lot of controversy in the YouTube atheist community. His initial video was about trans athletes but has since unlisted that video and released some new ones taking on board the criticism. I believe his latest video offers a more nuanced perspective in the debate but I'm intrigued to know what you think of the video?




Ps: keep it respectful :smile:

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Transgender women have a huge advantage over biological women and this is well known whether people deny it or not. If you allow transgender women to compete as biological women you might aswell allow steroid use
Ok, thanks for sharing. Did you watch the video?
Reply 3
Avatar for Ascend
Ascend
13
Interesting video, I'm halfway through but wanted to say this quickly:

Biological advantages and disadvantages are inherent in every sport on an individual level. Getting triggered by trans atheletes would only logically lead to scrutinising the biology of every single competitor to determine "fairness".
He raises a quite fair point. The fastest woman to complete a Marathon would not even be in the top 2000 times of the men athletes. This clearly highlights the differences in physical ability due to factors surrounding gender. Such as men having a larger heart and lungs ( as stated in the video) Therefore it would be unfair for a transgender athlete to complete against women if they had experience puberty as a male and had the attributes previously stated .
Erm, no. The competitions are for 'women' only for a reason. This isn't segregating sex/gender (not sure what is the appropriate term) for the sake of it like PE in primary school, the rules were there with this in mind. Many of the competitors probably signed up because they wanted to compete against other women, and so putting them against people who are have the physical advantages of a man is not only 'unfair', but also lying to the actual women told that they were competing against WOMEN.
Original post by Ascend
Interesting video, I'm halfway through but wanted to say this quickly:

Biological advantages and disadvantages are inherent in every sport on an individual level. Getting triggered by trans atheletes would only logically lead to scrutinising the biology of every single competitor to determine "fairness".
:biggrin:I'm glad ppl actually watched the video
Original post by SchmuckOff
He raises a quite fair point. The fastest woman to complete a Marathon would not even be in the top 2000 times of the men athletes. This clearly highlights the differences in physical ability due to factors surrounding gender. Such as men having a larger heart and lungs ( as stated in the video) Therefore it would be unfair for a transgender athlete to complete against women if they had experience puberty as a male and had the attributes previously stated .

Original post by Ascend
Interesting video, I'm halfway through but wanted to say this quickly:

Biological advantages and disadvantages are inherent in every sport on an individual level. Getting triggered by trans atheletes would only logically lead to scrutinising the biology of every single competitor to determine "fairness".
Reply 7
Avatar for Ascend
Ascend
13
Just finished it. It's very interesting but it still makes me question the idea of fair play. Competitive sport is quite a ridiculous thing when scrutinised properly and you start getting into advantages and disadvantages.

Original post by DryTowel
Erm, no. The competitions are for 'women' only for a reason. This isn't segregating sex/gender (not sure what is the appropriate term) for the sake of it like PE in primary school, the rules were there with this in mind. Many of the competitors probably signed up because they wanted to compete against other women, and so putting them against people who are have the physical advantages of a man is not only 'unfair', but also lying to the actual women told that they were competing against WOMEN.


I get that but there's just an inherent silliness to fair play principles in competitive sport, gendered or not. Instead of arbitrarily segregating by identity, maybe a more biologically relevant division is needed even if that puts the majority of (or even all) women out of the top physical strata.

The whole thing is silly, either way.
When transwomen compete in competitive sports, they do already have to maintain a certain testosterone level. There is still debate about whether this is effective enough.
Original post by Ascend
Interesting video, I'm halfway through but wanted to say this quickly:

Biological advantages and disadvantages are inherent in every sport on an individual level. Getting triggered by trans atheletes would only logically lead to scrutinising the biology of every single competitor to determine "fairness".


It’s a similar argument to performance enhancers; good nutrition, recovery and vitamins are all performance enhancers but we draw a line at a point. The same applies here, there has to be a line where we say ‘this advantage is just too great’. If you want to allow trans women to compete again biological women you may as well abandon sex segregation in sport.
(edited 4 years ago)
I don’t need to, there’s a reason we have separate sport leagues by biological sex
Original post by Obolinda
Ok, thanks for sharing. Did you watch the video?
if you say so
I agree with what he says. There are vocal idiots (or maybe they're clever, wanting to use the trans lobby to gain an unfair advantage for their own gains) who are in denial about the physical superiority of men in pretty much every sport. I can imagine that you could HRT the hell out of someone so that it outweighs any biological advantage their adolescence and hormones have given them, but it is on the individual (or their doctors, whoever) to demonstrate that is the case.

The inclusion of Pistorius is an interesting point. Personally, I think it's easiest to insist that a TUE does not exceed 100% for any aspect of the event, by default. So while Pistorius (or another blade runner who didn't murder his girlfriend) can claim that he is disdvantaged elsewhere, he is still holding advantages that he will exploit in the race and training. For instance, he was never going to rupture an Achilles, something that his competitors would have to factor into their training.

In effect, you can either have one clear line at the top end of women, barring men, transmen, transwomen etc from competing there (but still permitted in the men's competitions), or a small but growing grey area where everything is decided on a case by case basis. I'd compare it to boxing weight classes - you have restrictions to fight in lightweight, but anyone can fight in heavyweight.
Reply 13
Avatar for DSilva
DSilva
12
Original post by Underscore__
It’s a similar argument to performance enhancers; good nutrition, recovery and vitamins are all performance enhancers but we draw a line at a point. The same applies here, there has to be a line where we say ‘this advantage is just too great’. If you want to allow trans women to compete again biological women you may as well abandon sex segregation in sport.


We should also ban Michel Phelps though right? Because he has such a huge physical advantage over everyone else.

Oh and we should ban really tall high jumpers because they have an unfair advantage too, right?
Reply 14
Avatar for DSilva
DSilva
12
Michael Phelps is an absolute physical phenomenon, and his physique gives him a massive natural advantage over his competitors.

Should be be banned?
Original post by DSilva
We should also ban Michel Phelps though right? Because he has such a huge physical advantage over everyone else.

Oh and we should ban really tall high jumpers because they have an unfair advantage too, right?


To suggest the gap between Michael Phelps and other elite male athletes is as broad as the gap between elite male athletes and elite female athletes is completely absurd.
Original post by Obolinda
When transwomen compete in competitive sports, they do already have to maintain a certain testosterone level. There is still debate about whether this is effective enough.

'transwomen' do not exist outside the fevered fantasies of the TERFs and their far right pay masters

transgender women do exist and like many o the simplistic answers that clueless politicians try to impose testosterone levles are not the be all and end off of this issue
Original post by InArduisFouette
'transwomen' do not exist outside the fevered fantasies of the TERFs and their far right pay masters

I'm sorry. I simply used the word "trans" as an abbreviation of "transgender". I didn't realise this would be so upsetting.
Original post by InArduisFouette
transgender women do exist and like many o the simplistic answers that clueless politicians try to impose testosterone levles are not the be all and end off of this issue

I'm literally agreeing with you. Did you watch the video?
what? :lol:
Original post by Pinkisk
We have one at our university. It's in the busiest part of the university. Thousands of students pass by it every day and guess what? Nobody, nobody uses it, not even the liberals who campaigned for it at our uni!!!
Here's a (quite extensive!) response to rationality rules:

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