Brexit or Remain?

Brexit means Brexit

would brexit mean that i need a paspoort to travel?

You always need a passport to travel, to any country. How would they check you otherwise?

How the EU have treated us since we decided to leave is inexcusable.

I am a believer of allies, we should all work together united, this doesn't mean that we have to stay in the EU. People seem to be looking at Brexit as though we are going to war with Europe, all it means is an end of a trade deal and ties to specific trade agreements.

I can't see any reason why we need to stay in the EU to be united or work together, it makes no logical sense.

I believe we would be better off out of the EU, that does not mean we have left Europe. We will be able to buy and sell and trade with whoever we want to and not have to buy specific items from specific partners. One example being we can't buy solar cell technology from China where it is cheaper, we have to buy it from Germany where it is more expensive. Why? Because that is part of our trade deal and we have to abide by it under European law. The same applies for wind turbines.

At the end of the day, British people hold different values to that of say, France or Germany, as they hold different values from one another.

It is an impossible feat to get all of these countries to live in a centralised way

it just doesn't work and there will be problems.

Many countries now want to leave the EU

The Eu also seem to be laughing at us at every step, they think the UK is a laughing stock.

So why are they so pissed off? We must be beneficial to them in a massive way.

I also don't like their plans of a 'European army'.

What particular treatment are you referring to?

The EU has lived up to all of its obligations, done everything that it said it would do before the process started, and hasn't treated the UK any differently to the way it did before. On the other hand, the UK Govt spent most of its time dithering, infighting and arguing amongst itself. But aside from that, the entire situation is all of the UK's own doing; the UK asked for it, therefore it's the UK's responsibility to find a solution which is acceptable to the EU.

The EU made it clear from the very beginning that it's not possible for the UK to get a 'better deal' or have 'cake and eat it' -- those were just fantasies conjured by people like Boris Johnson, but those fantasies had no grounding in reality.

The EU has also held up its obligations to Ireland on the Irish border and the N.I. Peace process, and it has given the UK every possible opportunity to come up with a better plan, but when questioned on the specifics on exactly how it would work, nobody has a viable solution.


The implications of ending those deals without having a suitable replacement (WTO rules are not a suitable replacement for all sorts of reasons) is major long-lasting disruption to hundreds of thousands of businesses, massive amounts of extra bureaucracy, huge tariffs, trade barriers, and potentially decades of uncertainty while the mess is cleaned up.

All of which means a huge amount of damage to the UK economy, of whom those worst hit will be the younger generations for whom the impact is going to be on things like the ability to find a well-paid job or afford a mortgage.


The problem is simply that nobody so far has managed to come up with a better alternative plan or deal which allows this to happen. Certainly not the people who campaigned for it to happen, nor the people who have been put in charge of making it happen.

The past 3 years have yielded nothing whatsoever even remotely resembling a coherent or workable alternative, except for those which objectively leave the UK in a much weaker position than it is right now; i.e. arrangements similar to many other 3rd countries which the EU has agreements with, such as those 3rd-countries being required to adopt EU rules without having a say in them.

Staying makes logical sense when there's no viable alternative, and the other options all put the UK at a disadvantage compared to its current position.

But beyond that, trade deals always involve both sides needing to compromise and accept laws and standards which are less-than-idea. The UK's membership of the EU is actually a much better arrangement than any other member of the EU, but if the UK were then to attempt to negotiate some other trade deal with the US, it would end up needing to cave into all kinds of US demands instead.


What about UK producers of those technologies? If all of a sudden the UK is buying it much cheaper from China, UK-based manufacturers won't be able to compete, so then you can say goodbye to the renewable energy sector in the UK, which is currently enjoying a huge amount of growth and inward investment for new jobs. But being in the EU means that the UK jobs are protected from China, and that there's 500 million potential customers just on the other side of the English Channel for those technologies.

There's also the issue of whether the cheap chinese imports meet the same standards for things like quality and safety, and other ethical issues such as whether the workers are being exploited in a country with a poor record on human rights.


British people hold different values to each other as well. Nationality makes no real difference to somebody's values. Peoples values depend a lot on things like their job, marital status, whether they have children, their religion, etc.

A married professional couple who live and work professional jobs in the centre of London has far more values in common with another married professional couple living in Paris or Berlin compared with a Farmer in North Wales, or a single-parent on a council estate in Liverpool.



Each country in the EU is its own independent sovereign nation with full control over its own laws; the EU is focused on matters related to international cooperation and co-operation between its members (Mostly trade), with no influence whatsoever over any domestic policy. In other words, EU rules and regulations have little or no direct impact on the laws which actually affect individuals' day-to-day lives. (e.g. taxation, education, criminal law, policing, healthcare, housing, etc.)

Furthermore, EU members have veto powers so a single EU member can reject any new laws that it strongly disagrees with, or it can reject new trade deals that it doesn't like, or it can reject new members being added to the EU, etc.


So there weren't problems before? I'd recommend you check the history of peace in Europe and look for the last time in history that Europe went more than 70 years without declaring war on itself.


I haven't seen any evidence of this, please could you link your sources? The recent EU elections for the European Parliament delivered a clear majority of seats to Pro-EU parties. Not a single one of the other 27 members has an anti-EU government. Many of those countries have held elections over the past 3 years, all of which have resulted in victories for pro-EU parties and leaders.


The UK IS a laughing stock for pretty much the whole world, not just the EU. The UK used to be known for pragmatism and rational debate, but now it's descended into political chaos and absurdity where facts, logic and reasoning have all flown out of the window.




The EU is still far more beneficial to the UK. The entire scenario is lose-lose on both sides, where the UK has far more to lose given that the EU accounts for almost half of all UK trade.

Then on top of that, there's another 50+ countries which the EU has various trading arrangements and agreements with that it will lose too. It will also lose access to other beneficial projects such as EHIC, Erasmus, Euratom, European Arrest Warrant, EASA, and many other points of co-operation which aren't directly measurable in terms of currency but are still important to the UK economy and peoples' opportunities. Not to mention losing the right for UK citizens to freely live and work anywhere in Europe, as well as losing skilled EU workers who had moved here.


there are no plans for a 'European army'; that's just one of the many myths being spread about the EU.