Why do Uni's have Entry Requirements?
What I mean by this is that, they all teach the same things. so why do they all have different requirements? r some of the things they teach easier or less diffucult than what other Uni's teach? isn't it the same topics? or is the uni just worse so it will also have lower requirements because they're teaching standards r not as good as other's? how do they come to the decision of what their grade requirements should be for a course? just curious.
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Original post by The_Atomix
What I mean by this is that, they all teach the same things.
No, they don't.
Subjects might have the same name, but that's where it ends.
Look at the first year drop out/failure rates in non selective universities in Europe.
I get its away to separate the smart kids from the "other" kids but I still don't think this is a valid reason to make requirements. they're arnt any form of requirements for secondary school, they put kids into sets to determine their intelligence. can't uni's do this. and secondary schools don't have mixed results, a school dependant on its teaching standards can suggest how good the school is. I hope I'm making sense because honestly when u really think about it they r basically unnecessary.
Original post by PQ
Look at the first year drop out/failure rates in non selective universities in Europe.
Look at the first year drop out/failure rates in non selective universities in Europe.
Supply and demand, plus the courses at some universities may be a bit more academically challenging than others, and hence may require a higher standard of attainment at entry to ensure successful completion of the course (British universities don't generally have high drop-out rates).
Original post by The_Atomix
What I mean by this is that, they all teach the same things. so why do they all have different requirements? r some of the things they teach easier or less diffucult than what other Uni's teach? isn't it the same topics? or is the uni just worse so it will also have lower requirements because they're teaching standards r not as good as other's? how do they come to the decision of what their grade requirements should be for a course? just curious.
They don't all teach the same things. Universities aren't like schools - they don't have a specification of what they need to teach. The modules within courses change yearly, and depend on the teaching staff and resources they have available. For example, my university course has a module about the paranormal and ghosts etc. They only have this because they have a few members of staff who research this stuff. If they left, so would the module.
They have entry requirements to make sure the students will be able to cope with the workload. Top universities are much more intense and work students harder than the lower-ranked unis, so they need to make sure students can cope with the workload. Also, as others have said, it depends on how many applicants they have and how many places they can offer. Entry requirements can go up or down each year depending on the stats.
Are you having a laugh? Do you really think that Oxbridge teaches exactly the same material as dumps like Huddersfield and Anglia Ruskin?
It's to prevent drop outs and keep performance rates up. Higher grades generally mean they will do well in the degree and not drop out (definitely not always the case).
Content is pretty similar across all uni's. But people who like to think they're special by going to a top 10 uni like to tell you otherwise.
Content is pretty similar across all uni's. But people who like to think they're special by going to a top 10 uni like to tell you otherwise.
Original post by OddOnes
Content is pretty similar across all uni's. But people who like to think they're special by going to a top 10 uni like to tell you otherwise.
Content is pretty similar across all uni's. But people who like to think they're special by going to a top 10 uni like to tell you otherwise.
It's unlikely, considering how specialized some disciplines have become. A hundred years ago, an engineer could do pretty much everything, now such a jack of all trades would be useless, things got far too complex.
Same with humanities, I doubt there is a philosopher who knows and understands all the major systems. It always makes me smile, when I recall Alfred Ayer's book, in which he comments that 'either I don't understand Wittgenstein or Wittgenstein didn't understand what he was writing'.
The capabilities of students themselves can also make a difference in the general opportunities that universities offer.
unis can easily separate smarter students from the worse students easily by putting them in different classes. how ever there should be uni's for specific subject areas. if a uni is doing mathematics they can provide an entire range of easy and difficult topics for students based on their level. there r hundreds of subjects a student can learn I imagine with the variety of modules seen in degrees, but again, that's not really a reason to make requirements. if it only gives them a good name then its all some form of a business tactic. I'm not complaining about this because I have low grades and I'm jealous of smarter students, I am honestly curious about this. I thought that had to be said since im defending this idea so much. I hope I'm making sense as well.
Original post by PTMalewski
It's unlikely, considering how specialized some disciplines have become. A hundred years ago, an engineer could do pretty much everything, now such a jack of all trades would be useless, things got far too complex.
Same with humanities, I doubt there is a philosopher who knows and understands all the major systems. It always makes me smile, when I recall Alfred Ayer's book, in which he comments that 'either I don't understand Wittgenstein or Wittgenstein didn't understand what he was writing'.
The capabilities of students themselves can also make a difference in the general opportunities that universities offer.
Same with humanities, I doubt there is a philosopher who knows and understands all the major systems. It always makes me smile, when I recall Alfred Ayer's book, in which he comments that 'either I don't understand Wittgenstein or Wittgenstein didn't understand what he was writing'.
The capabilities of students themselves can also make a difference in the general opportunities that universities offer.
Some lower quality universities don't have the expertise to teach the content that the highest-quality universities teach. The quality of teaching is different, and so are the topics taught. As a result, the demand varies between universities, so entry requirements are in place to avoid an excess of drop-outs. Anyway, secondary schools do have entry requirements. Have you not seen the entry requirements for the London Academy of Excellence or Brampton Manor Academy?
Original post by The_Atomix
unis can easily separate smarter students from the worse students easily by putting them in different classes. how ever there should be uni's for specific subject areas. if a uni is doing mathematics they can provide an entire range of easy and difficult topics for students based on their level. there r hundreds of subjects a student can learn I imagine with the variety of modules seen in degrees, but again, that's not really a reason to make requirements. if it only gives them a good name then its all some form of a business tactic. I'm not complaining about this because I have low grades and I'm jealous of smarter students, I am honestly curious about this. I thought that had to be said since im defending this idea so much. I hope I'm making sense as well.
WEach university is able to set the entry requirements for their courses, this, as mentioned by others, helps to identify prospective students capable of undertaking and completing the course. Not always foolproof of course, particularly where rote learning is involved for prior education or there are differing standards of opinion to what is considered acceptable.
It should also be noted that the entry requirements aren’t set in stone and are likely to be amended or alternatives as substitutes are considered - such as related experience, etc. This is commonly seen when applying as a mature student or for a masters course.
A bit of a catch 22 really. I remember a conversation I once had with a department head about student quality, and how due to that particular universities ranking/reputation they struggled to attract many students who went beyond the minimum effort required to pass. Coupled with increasing student fees and the attitude of “I’m paying a lot of money for this, I deserve a good grade” he wasn’t hopeful that things would improve but likely to get worse. At least in the short term.
It should also be noted that the entry requirements aren’t set in stone and are likely to be amended or alternatives as substitutes are considered - such as related experience, etc. This is commonly seen when applying as a mature student or for a masters course.
Original post by PTMalewski
The capabilities of students themselves can also make a difference in the general opportunities that universities offer.
The capabilities of students themselves can also make a difference in the general opportunities that universities offer.
A bit of a catch 22 really. I remember a conversation I once had with a department head about student quality, and how due to that particular universities ranking/reputation they struggled to attract many students who went beyond the minimum effort required to pass. Coupled with increasing student fees and the attitude of “I’m paying a lot of money for this, I deserve a good grade” he wasn’t hopeful that things would improve but likely to get worse. At least in the short term.
Original post by Salostar
A bit of a catch 22 really. I remember a conversation I once had with a department head about student quality, and how due to that particular universities ranking/reputation they struggled to attract many students who went beyond the minimum effort required to pass. Coupled with increasing student fees and the attitude of “I’m paying a lot of money for this, I deserve a good grade” he wasn’t hopeful that things would improve but likely to get worse. At least in the short term.
A bit of a catch 22 really. I remember a conversation I once had with a department head about student quality, and how due to that particular universities ranking/reputation they struggled to attract many students who went beyond the minimum effort required to pass. Coupled with increasing student fees and the attitude of “I’m paying a lot of money for this, I deserve a good grade” he wasn’t hopeful that things would improve but likely to get worse. At least in the short term.
That's while I admire lots of things in West and I'm very critical of my country of origin in mid-Europe, I think the Slavs have a healthier attitude to this particular problem. Out there, if students have poor grades or fail to graduate at all, it is considered to be entirely their fault as they must have not been working hard enough.
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by PTMalewski
That's while I admire lots of things in West and I'm very critical of my country of origin in mid-Europe, I think the Slavs have a healthier attitude to this particular problem. Out there, if students have poor grades or fail to graduate at all, it is considered to be entirely their fault as they must have not been working hard enough.
Sadly many prefer to blame others then themselves when it comes failure. Although, I do feel for those who try and fail - sometimes this is caused by lack of support or outside circumstances, or just not suitable for what they're trying to achieve.
The higher in the rankings, the less you have to pander to students
But its catch 22 - if you let people that aren't able to do your course in to fill spaces then the drop out rate is higher and student satisfaction drops - further sinking you down the league tables.
Be thankful requirements exist here though - it keeps people realistic.
Veterinary medicine requires AAA in UK universities - In many European schools they take anyone. Their drop out rates in first year can be as high as 70% failing to pass. If they only took those intelligent enough this would not happen, but the university makes far more money with everyone paying for a heavily over subscribed first year.
But its catch 22 - if you let people that aren't able to do your course in to fill spaces then the drop out rate is higher and student satisfaction drops - further sinking you down the league tables.
Be thankful requirements exist here though - it keeps people realistic.
Veterinary medicine requires AAA in UK universities - In many European schools they take anyone. Their drop out rates in first year can be as high as 70% failing to pass. If they only took those intelligent enough this would not happen, but the university makes far more money with everyone paying for a heavily over subscribed first year.
Why isn’t anyone talking about scale?
Yes, what everyone said is perfectly valid and exactly true but thousands of people attend uni and to sort them out by grades and then change content according to that year by year is costly and long. Secondary schools can do it because A) it’s smaller and B) there are set specifications to follow.
When you enter sixth form there is a university standard there: you need a statement and interview to enter the sixth form and then you need the grades to enter the A-Level and once entered you aren’t split into groups, that’s because the standard is already set. It’s similar with uni.
The grades are there to make sure you cope - if it’s a problem there are other universities that will accept you with 0 tariff points no matter what but I’m sure you know the consequences of that...
Yes, what everyone said is perfectly valid and exactly true but thousands of people attend uni and to sort them out by grades and then change content according to that year by year is costly and long. Secondary schools can do it because A) it’s smaller and B) there are set specifications to follow.
When you enter sixth form there is a university standard there: you need a statement and interview to enter the sixth form and then you need the grades to enter the A-Level and once entered you aren’t split into groups, that’s because the standard is already set. It’s similar with uni.
The grades are there to make sure you cope - if it’s a problem there are other universities that will accept you with 0 tariff points no matter what but I’m sure you know the consequences of that...
Original post by VMD100
If they only took those intelligent enough this would not happen, but the university makes far more money with everyone paying for a heavily over subscribed first year.
Whilst you're argument is generally correct in terms of reasoning, I'd remark that being succesful at university, especially in the field that requires good memory, doesn't rely only on intelligence. It requires also, good memory, motivation and good health.
I've read an opinion that people who perform well in IQ tests also have a good memory. I find it to be untrue. I have a terrible memory, I find it very difficult to memorize anything and I keep forgetting about things, but in IQ tests my results are close to the MENSA's requirements.
Still, I haven't been successful at uni so far, because my degree required a lot of things to be learned by heart, I've also suffered from depression and other health problems. As a result, I was sometimes getting mediocre grades.
Original post by Salostar
Sadly many prefer to blame others then themselves when it comes failure. Although, I do feel for those who try and fail - sometimes this is caused by lack of support or outside circumstances, or just not suitable for what they're trying to achieve.
You're perfectly right.
(edited 4 years ago)
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