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Police force takes legal action over policy requiring new officers to have a degree

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Why would i want that? they generally dont carry weapons on the city streets.
I want the Officers to be.

The ones that do have to undergo special vetting and directly relevant training. How is that not suitable? What, exactly, does a degree add?

Reply 21

Napp

I never once insisted such a thing.

Are you attempting to make the deeply questionable point that university does not impart life skills though? Irrespective of the subject.

Original post by Good bloke

The ones that do have to undergo special vetting and directly relevant training. How is that not suitable? What, exactly, does a degree add?

Having seen the err 'relevant training' you'll forgive me for remaining somewhat skeptical on it. Then again i might be being somewhat biased judging them all on the performance of the Met.
See above.

Reply 22

Good bloke

Original post by Napp

I never once insisted such a thing.

So you agree with me that we do not need to recruit solely graduates into the police force?

Reply 23

Notoriety

Original post by Good bloke

It has always required, and taught, knowledge of the law (which it will obviously have to continue to undertake) so the traditional recruit has managed it very well, and critical thinking skills on the high streets and baton lines of Britain are not in high demand (at least for the plods, which is what we are discussing). And there will not be many graduate-level essays written by the typical bobby. In any event, the standard of written English of the typical modern graduate is not high. So I believe you to be mistaken.

You are arguing against the College of Policing about the difficulties of training non-grads. I believe they have a superior grasp on the situation than you.

And the tradition bobby is no longer existent. They serve a multitude of roles typically other than roaming the streets with baton in hand and the safeguarding roles, for example, are becoming more formalised and complex. The physical "being present on the streets" is really taken up by less trained PCSOs and complex issues are escalated to actual PCs to deal with.

Reply 24

Napp

Original post by Good bloke

So you agree with me that we do not need to recruit solely graduates into the police force?

No.

Reply 25

Good bloke

Original post by Napp

No.

So you are, indeed, insisting that an all-graduate recruitment policy is needed. This seems to be inconsistent with your claim that you are not.

Reply 26

Good bloke

Original post by Notoriety

You are arguing against the College of Policing about the difficulties of training non-grads.

I am saying that, having trained them, they will have great difficulty in reconciling their career expectations (and loan-carrying burdens) with the lack of career progress on offer. Or do you think these graduates will be content to remain in the bottom grade (as most recruits do) throughout their careers?

Reply 27

Notoriety

Original post by Good bloke

I think they will be quite happy to do so, especially as these careers are usually not till retirement.

Reply 28

Royalist Blue

There are so many inefficiencies when all what's needed is simplicity.

There are current serving police officers who do not have degree level education and the reason for it is a police officer doesn't need a degree- you could argue a degree in law could be beneficial for the police officers but then for law graduates there are better jobs which pay more money- grads are not needed for everyday police officers- just a presence will be enough.

As long as they are trained and can do their job competently there is no need to invoke this rule which will deter many from becoming police officers, it's true that less and less people want to be police officers- why? look at the criminals now we have gang culture where an officer could easily end up dead, particularly if they are patrolling on their own which was a rule West Midlands policy invoked for a while in 2013/2014- not sure if this is still the case though.

Police have diminished powers too- we have had Incompetent Theresa May not only for the last two years as Primeminister but for around 6 years prior to that as Home Secretary. She scaled down stop and search due to the virtue signalling around the issue for example Black people stopped and searched more than whites and it being disproportionate- has anyone thought the reason Blacks was stopped and searched disproportionately is because they commit more crime?

In 2016/2017 There was a total of 781,250 arrests in the UK Black people was responsible for 71,937 of those arrests or roughly 9% of all arrests and the Black population of Britain is 3% so they are massively over represented- that is roughly one in every 26 of the Black population.

Then we have the do not chase mopeds policy which made moped crime explode as the police wouldn't deal with it properly.

This is without mentioning the gang warfare.

The Police Budget is £12.3bn and we have 123,000 police officers- this is not enough for a big enough presence i can go months without seeing a police officer on patrol. At the same time we are unequivocally comitting to send £13bn overseas in foreign aid- monies which we don't have to give, I get it can hit our reputation but the government struggle to spend it- why not cut it by 50% spend it in situations we need it (IE if someone has a disaster) and use 6.5 billion towards getting more police on the streets.

Reply 29

Napp

Original post by Good bloke

So you are, indeed, insisting that an all-graduate recruitment policy is needed. This seems to be inconsistent with your claim that you are not.

You seem to have a unique and inexplicable talent for reading things which do not exist. This is the 3rd time you have attempted to say something I have no explicitly said.

As for your other comment to notoriety, policing is considered a vocation not a profession.

Reply 30

Good bloke

Original post by Notoriety

I think they will be quite happy to do so, especially as these careers are usually not till retirement.

A police career is, by definition, ended by retirement. My point is that juncture needs, in the public interest, to be as late as possible consistent with ability to perform the duties, lest we lose the valuable experience and skills learned. Those that leave in frustration at the lack of advancement after five years are wasted, and a burden on the training budget as they are replaced.

Anyone who takes a degree and is happy to remain on the lowest rung of the career ladder for their entire engagement after incurring the encumbrances of a graduate loan is not very clever and should never have gone to university in the first place. This rather negates the idea of recruiting a higher standard of policeman.

Reply 31

Good bloke

Original post by Napp

In answer to my question as to whether you support non-graduate recruitment to the police you gave a clear 'no'. I think that is explicit, don't you?

Reply 32

Napp

Original post by Good bloke

In answer to my question as to whether you support non-graduate recruitment to the police you gave a clear 'no'. I think that is explicit, don't you?

No.
Just because your world view seems to be divided between polar opposites doesnt mean everyone mine is. Just because I dont agree with said comment doesnt mean i disagree with it and vice versa.

Reply 33

Good bloke

Original post by Napp

No.
Just because your world view seems to be divided between polar opposites doesnt mean everyone mine is. Just because I dont agree with said comment doesnt mean i disagree with it and vice versa.

So you do agree that continued recruitment of non-graduates to the police is a good thing?

Reply 34

Napp

Original post by Good bloke

So you do agree that continued recruitment of non-graduates to the police is a good thing?

I'm really starting to question your comprehension skills... reread the aforementioned comment.

Reply 35

Good bloke

Original post by Napp

I'm really starting to question your comprehension skills... reread the aforementioned comment.

I agree that trying to find the grey area between simple yes and no is certainly beyond me.

Reply 36

Napp

Original post by Good bloke

I agree that trying to find the grey area between simple yes and no is certainly beyond me.

Evidently.

Reply 37

the beer

Great, hopefully educated officers will be less willing to enforce bad laws.

Reply 38

the bear

Original post by Good bloke

They must be if they cannot see the obvious flaw.

i suppose they could create a new class of worker... the Policing Assistant... responsible for the hands on tasks of the Bill while the graduates direct operations from HQ.

Reply 39

Good bloke

Original post by the bear

i suppose they could create a new class of worker... the Policing Assistant... responsible for the hands on tasks of the Bill while the graduates direct operations from HQ.

Of course! Supervision would be on a one-to-one basis and therefore very tight. No graduate would ever have to dirty his hands on a truncheon.

Seriously, we already have PCSOs who, presumably, must be either illiterates dommed to pound the beat 'til kingdom come or aspiring PCs who write essays on existentialism in their free time.