When debating remainers

I believe that particular post to be tongue in cheek.

Here we go reference my post #7

You really need too look up the definition of bigoted/bigot and then you may wish to veiw yourself.

Yes this is correct, there are idiots on both sides of the debate I agree with you. Unfortunately remain has more of these people in positions of power, as you just point out - 114 of them voted against triggering artical 50 in the first place! I'm not so sure the idiots of the Leave campaign have any parliamentary reputation, thankfully the Tommy Robinson EDL types have no parliamentary representative.


Look at the facts Cheques was scrapped by Theresa May, it never went to a meaningful vote! TM is a remainer parliamentarian so I'm not having that, The Canada style deal was stopped by Theresa May again a remainer, now the Canada style deal was supported by the ERG so that's fuzzy logic you are using once more! While you are correct about mays deal mk 1 and 2. The exit agreement, previously backed by labour's remain heavy parliamentarians was rejected again by remainers! As I said remainer frustrated the process.

Brexiteers frustrating the process? well if they had not been swept aside I believe it would of all been done now, so no I don't think so but that's open to debate.

Parliament promised a referendum - which Leave won - and has attempted to unite behind a plan forward. The problem, though, is that there are so many visions of Brexit and interpretations of the referendum result that it's incredibly difficult to find consensus across the House. Not to mention, Parliament has a duty to adequately represent the 48% that voted to Remain - striking a balance between the demands of the 52% and the views of the 48%.

Brexit is a class issue. But it can also be seen as an age issue (which I believe is the most pertinent of the demographics), an educational attainment issue, or a geographic issue (London, Scotland, & a handful of big cities voting Remain). It's shameful how some figures have attempted to twist the fears and concerns of the working-classes - it's our government that are to blame for the NHS crisis, lack of affordable housing, austerity etc.

@Napp

You’re both wrong I’m afraid.,I’m not saying that generally speaking remainers think all kea e voters are far right- what I am saying is generally remain voters think brexit is a victory for the far right- and most leave voters are useful idiots.

He's clearly trolling. Ignore him. Don't take everything so seriously (with all due respect)

EDIT: just seen the above post, never mind!

I imagine most of the 114 disagreed with the timing of enacting Article 50. It seems pretty well established with hindsight that A50 was triggered far too early, with no plan or framework for exiting the EU being established. Within this 114 there will be a few dozen hardcore remainers - hardly the pro-remain takeover that people like to infer. I'd say less than 10% of MPs are hellbent on blindly remaining in the EU under any and every circumstance; the number of hellbent militant Brexiteers probably far outweighs this. And one of them is about to become our Prime Minister.

The ERG is undoubtedly the most powerful party-within-a-party in Parliament. Far exceeding the influence of Momentum, this hard-core, backward looking, & highly secretive faction has its own whipping operation and is determined to achieve an any-cost Brexit. In February last year, 62 ERG members signed a letter (including now Chairman JRM) listing their demands - which included a WTO implementation period. Jacob Rees-Mogg has been the front-man of a media campaign over recent months that has sought to downplay the risks of the no-deal Brexit, instead hyping up the possibility of trading under WTO terms.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/11/brexiters-jacob-rees-mogg-no-deal-chuck-chequers
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/the-european-research-groups-brexit-letter-in-full/

The Canada-EU trade deal took 7 years to agree and though it may have led to tariff-free trade on most goods, there's is next to no regulatory aligned between the two. The service sector - which represents upwards of 80% of the British economy - would be heavily impacted in a Canada style deal; resulting in an economy that would be almost 7% smaller in 15 years than remaining (which is only 2% short of a no-deal Brexit), as per the FT.

https://www.ft.com/content/4849bf68-1b13-11e9-9e64-d150b3105d21

Like I said, this is a representative democracy where we elect officials to make informed decisions on our behalf. The 2016 referendum demonstrated a slim majority supported leaving the EU (though now the numbers look to have reversed); but offered no vision about the style or type of Brexit that people wanted - that is where Parliament comes in. The public offered the direction that they wanted the country to head - and Parliament has the responsibility of ironing out the detail. Theres so much infighting, not just between leavers and reaminers, but also remainers & remainers and leavers & leavers. It's just not the simple case of 'remainers doing their best to overturn the will of the people' that we see & hear so often in the media (of which the Leave camp has considerable support & influence), on social media, or even on this forum. The issue is far too divisive and has split the entire country, not just Parliament.

The reality is that though most MPs voted remain (circa 80% I think), most now wish to see Brexit delivered - hence the A50 vote. But they wish to see a vision of Brexit that is based upon consensus and is in the interests of their constituents and the wider-country.

Brexit is a class issue. But it can also be seen as an age issue (which I believe is the most pertinent of the demographics), an educational attainment issue, or a geographic issue (London, Scotland, & a handful of big cities voting Remain). It's shameful how some figures have attempted to twist the fears and concerns of the working-classes - it's our government that are to blame for the NHS crisis, lack of affordable housing, austerity etc.

I understand the supermarket business very well thank you. My bother is a seniour manager for one. And what has happened in the last 3 years is that the margin on groveries of around 5% has fallen to less than 1%. The only thing left is to put up prices. However competition is so fierce, no supermarket is going to admit to putting up prices. But prices are going up regardless and the main driver is a devalued pound. Prices and fuel are heading one way only and in a massive way come no deal.

But its ok. Because we can make our own decisions just like we can now.

I'll take that as a no then.

You need to speak to many northern working class people. The EEC was Margaret Thatchers baby that Labour and the trade unions were dead against joining. To many northern people the status quo has been very bad for them, voting for any change is appealing to them because quite literally they have seen their communities decimated since joining the EU

I’m northern and from a working class area. The industrial collapse in my region started before we joined the EEC, with the vast majority of the mine closures occurring in the 60s.

Right wing rags like The Sun and The Daily Mail drip fed the idea that the EU is to blame for our problems, sadly too may people mindlessly bought into their garbage.

One of the reasons why I’m such an adamant remainder is I don’t want to see the people of the area I grew up in (highest unemployment rate and lowest wages in England) suffer further economic hardship caused by reckless Brexit fanatics like yourself.

Of course i did. But choose to ignore it just like you ignored my question. I guess we are similar in some things!

I failed to see your breakdown of which items are being raised directly, and solely, because of brexit, please could you post again.

Pound has dropped by 15% in 3 years and shock horror, some prices have gone up. Is it really that hard?

You will be telling me black is white next.

Are you Jordan Henderson?

https://youtu.be/y7w1ajC5taM

Why has it took 3 years to filter through then?

I’m northern and from a working class area. The industrial collapse in my region started before we joined the EEC, with the vast majority of the mine closures occurring in the 60s.

Right wing rags like The Sun and The Daily Mail drip fed the idea that the EU is to blame for our problems, sadly too may people mindlessly bought into their garbage.

One of the reasons why I’m such an adamant remainder is I don’t want to see the people of the area I grew up in (highest unemployment rate and lowest wages in England) suffer further economic hardship caused by reckless Brexit fanatics like yourself.

Same reason as gulf war recession didn't hit until 2008. There is much detritus for it to penetrate but penetrate it finally does. Btw... Sunderland, Scunthorpe, Kerry Foods... just first casualties. Expect more!