Why do the UK's education systems seem abysmal compared to Asia's in the rankings?

I’ve always been pretty curious about this. Why is our ranking so poor in the PISA league tables relative to Asian countries?

Every PISA cycle (every three years), the educational tables show that Britain consistently performs exceptionally poor in comparison to the countries in East Asia. The PISA examinations test scholastic standards with regard to literacy, numeracy and scientific knowledge and understanding. What’s up with this? In 2015. the United Kingdom was ranked 27th in mathematics, 21st in reading and 15th in science. These results have been fairly consistent. Is this not a bit underwhelming and, dare I say it, appalling? No? Okay then...

Asian countries, whether it be China, South Korea or Singapore consistently score very high and do even top the table. If we are competing in a global economy, do we not want to perform better? Do we not desire a more skilled workforce, or is our aim to become an embarrassment on the world stage?

It’s not just the Asians, the UK is steamrolled in certain departments by its European counterparts (Estonia anyone?), although this post is mostly concerned with countries in the Far East.



So then, what ails us?

Are the PISA test cycles actually failed instruments for measuring and tabulating standards of education systems globally?

Are our teachers not up to scratch? Is there something wrong with the training process or the way the system treats them?

Is it the length of our school days? I’ve seen discussions in the past about whether it is the amount of time actually spent in school that affects the results, but I don’t think so.

Are the UK's curriculums’ syllabi not rigorous enough, despite the fact that we all cry like mollycoddled children about ‘mental health’ due to how intense they may be and possibly engage more in the ‘sesh’ or ‘exam memes’ than school? I wonder how the Chinese or South Korean kids would react to these reformed exams.

Do Asian countries have the same culture where a clever, studious kid is labelled with ‘nerd’ or ‘geek’, or even a ‘neek’?

Do our schools not have enough discipline and/or fail to foster a culture of respecting our teachers?



I’m curious to hear your thoughts on this. What reasons do you think are to blame for our lacklustre performance in the PISA tests, especially compared to the top-performing Asian countries? Is our education system truly elite?

Do you think that after the reforms to our curriculum, our performance will increase in the future?

I think all your points are valid.

1. Our education system is indeed not as rigorous. Shorter school days, more holidays, learn content later.

2. Cultural differences. East Asian cultures generally are more "disciplined" in a sense- students here would certainly mornge if school days were lengthened. Plus if you look in classrooms, students in east asian schools themselves seem more disciplined- they get on with work and have more respect. They're brought up with a different work ethic, for sure. (and yes, being intelligent is seen as a good thing there whereas students in the UK will indeed use geek and nerd to describe intelligent people)

I don't think there's anything our education system could do in terms of legislation. They could increase difficulty of content and length of school days, but they'd receive so much opposition from students that it wouldn't last.

I think it is 100% down to cultural differences

Chinese/Korean parents instil an ethos of hard work and academic discipline into their kids from a young age. They also take a direct and strong role in their education. English parents don't really give a **** about their kids' education to anywhere near the same extent.

This is interesting because it begs the question of why universities in East Asia do not do so well in rankings when they have an educational ethos that supports them in topping these tables.

Will the UK ever have a radical change that assists our education system rather than work against it?

I think the explanation for universities comes down to language, as odd as it may sound.
The UK's best universities (oxbridge) take in a very high proportion of intentional students, who will be among the best in their respective countries. This is facilitated because English is a language that will already have been taught to them- its a lingua franca, so the top English speaking universities are accessible to the top students worldwide.

East Asian languages, however, are nowhere near as widely taught and spoken outside their own countries. The top students in Italy, for example, are far more likely to be fluent in english than say japanese, and so are more likely to seek the top universities in the UK or america.

So in short, english speaking universities attract more top students from worldwide since english is a lingua franca. This leads to the universities being higher ranked.

And I doubt the UK will have a radical change. If anything, work ethic is decreasing and the number of students is decreasing. I'd imagine secondary education will only go downhill from here without some huge government investment

Background: I've lived in China for more almost 15 years and our kids have gone to school here, starting off at "local" Chinese school with local teachers, moved to the "international" stream of a local school and ending up in high school at an international school with an American style curriculum and foreign teachers (predominantly North American.) So, I'm actually not too familiar with the UK schooling system (not having gone through it myself) but have some idea of what it involves (having family who have gone through it). Much of what I relate below is from our own experience but it may help give an idea of what's happening in China.

1. I completely agree that the parents are much more involved in the child's education. Much, much more. When our first child started in grade 1 (around age 6, so a bit older than reception in the UK), she was fluent in both English and Mandarin and could read both well. However, on her first day of school, unlike the other kids, she couldn't write down her homework. She seemed to be the only child who didn't know how to write Chinese! (She ended up drawing "pictures" of the characters.) She was getting about 2 hours homework per day in first grade. The government has actually tried to tone this down somewhat and I think it's a bit better now. But many parents will just send their kids to after school classes instead. Competition starts at pre-primary so you can get into the "right" primary school so in turn you can get into the "right" high school so you can get into "right" university.
I think some of this is a result of the one-child policy - where the two parents and four grandparents are all focussing on the one child's future. Of course Singapore, Korea, etc. don't have a one child policy (and neither does China any more) but the average family size is small, so I think there is probably a similar effect as well.
2. There is no geek/nerd shaming, rather the opposite. Parents aspire for their kids to do well academically - and the kids had better listen. Of course this is a bit of a generalisation but it is generally true. Even at the full international high school (where you have to have a foreign passport to be admitted), the majority of parents are East Asian and the parental emphasis is definitely on academics, even if the school is trying to offer a broader education.
3. In China, school holidays are actually longer than in the UK e.g. summer holidays are 2½ months long. No Christmas break of course but a 4 week break around Chinese New Year. However, schooldays are long - right from grade 1
4. Teaching is a respected profession here. For example, I remember meeting someone who was expressing disappointment in her daughter's marks in the "gao kao" which is the final high school leaving exam, the results of which pretty much determine your academic future. Unfortunately her daughter's marks were not good enough to train as a teacher - so she had ended up having to become a doctor instead.

There are definite disadvantages as well
1. The local schooling education style is very "rote learning" in style. Kids are taught to identify a question as being a problem of a certain type which is then solved using specific steps, so it's quite formulaic. Do they learn principles from this? I suspect many do, especially the brighter kids, as they are seeing so many problems that they might identify patterns and principals. But it's not where the educational emphasis lies. I think part of of the problem is also that class sizes are large (40+ kids) and this probably encourages a rote-learning approach.
2. There is very little emphasis on group learning and co-operation or debating and presenting nuanced arguments.
3. There is also very little emphasis on extra curricular activities that are not directly related to school (with the exception of learning the piano or violin - that is "educational")
4. There is very little flexibility or individual attention. e.g. in first grade, my older child was forced to "learn" basic English along with everyone else, when she was probably more advanced than the teacher. She could easily have sat at the back of the classroom and read a book (which she would have loved to do and would have gained far more from) but this wasn't allowed.
5. I've heard rumours that on the days when the PISA tests are being conducted, not-too-bright children have been "encouraged" to stay at home, so perhaps scores are a bit skewed. I have no idea how true this is but it definitely sounds plausible.
6. I have no idea what happens to the kids who struggle academically. I don't get the impression there is much remedial help. If the child is doing badly at school, it's definitely the parents' problem to sort out.
7. Many parents don't like the pressure their kids are under. But it's really difficult to break out of the pattern. Sure, don't force your kids to do all that extra homework etc - but that doesn't change the fact that they are still competing against the kids whose parents are doing everything they can to ensure that their children are going to get the best scores.

You raise many pertinent issues which I would love to address one by one. But, it's quite late and Young Justice awaits me.

What I do want to say, however, is that although primary and high school education in Asian countries like Japan and Korea are extremely rigorous and demanding, undergraduate education is pitiful. There seems to be a trend by some countries in providing exceptionally difficult course content in high school and then completely dropping the ball when it comes to university.

In Japan, for example, students work themselves to death to get into the university with the best brand. But, once they're in they sleep through all of their university lectures, seminars and tutorials. It's actually of no surprise that attendance has become compulsory in all university courses across the country. I actually remember feeling incredibly insulted for my course professor when I'd see 70% of the students sleeping with their faces planted firmly on the desk in a seminar of 10 people. This happened every single week.

The course content is generally of an embarrassing standard as well. Think of GCSE standard. And, no - I'm not exaggerating. I wish I was. And, yes - this applies to the most prestigious academic institutions in Japan like the University of Tokyo. Fortunately, I was incredibly lucky to have gone to a fantastic and extremely prestigious university that mirrored itself to foreign academic institutions such as the ones found in the States. Sophia University represent .

Regarding grades, future employers don't care what GPA the student has or what degree classification they graduate with. It's the university brand that is considered paramount and you'll witness (or, rather won't) that discussion about university grades in Japan is almost unheard of (unlike the UK where we continuously fuss over 2:2s, 2:1s and Firsts). Failing university is actually so prevalent that many students complete their undergraduate degree after 8 years or so... I, admittedly, know far too many people who have taken more than 6 years to complete their degree simply because they were having too much fun on their final vacation in life.

Yes, you read that right - university education in Japan is referred to as one's final vacation before they become a proper working adult worthy of Japanese society. And, yes; work in Japan really is that bad. I, personally, had to go into work 2-3 hours in advance just to prepare to do my work, officially work 8 hours and then do another extra 2-3 hours once my shift ended just to finish my work. I would be allocated an hour for lunch (out of a 9 hour working day) but I would often only take a 30 minutes lunch break because I just had too much bloody work to do. I wasn't even paid for that extra 30 minutes of lunch that I'd cut and put into work. I also wasn't allowed to clock in and out with my time-card when I'd come in early or leave late (which was everyday) because over-time wasn't permitted (as stipulated or whatever by the government). Regardless, everyone still did overtime but the difference was that no-one was ever paid for it.

Oh yeah, employees are made to join the company's own union. Yep.



I apologise for the tangent and for not at all answering what was asked. I feel better now though.

These results have been fairly consistent. Is this not a bit underwhelming and, dare I say it, appalling? No? Okay then...

Asian countries, whether it be China, South Korea or Singapore consistently score very high and do even top the table. If we are competing in a global economy, do we not want to perform better? Do we not desire a more skilled workforce, or is our aim to become an embarrassment on the world stage?

It’s not just the Asians, the UK is steamrolled in certain departments by its European counterparts (Estonia anyone?), although this post is mostly concerned with countries in the Far East.

Are the PISA test cycles actually failed instruments for measuring and tabulating standards of education systems globally?

Are our teachers not up to scratch? Is there something wrong with the training process or the way the system treats them?

Is it the length of our school days? I’ve seen discussions in the past about whether it is the amount of time actually spent in school that affects the results, but I don’t think so.

Are the UK's curriculums’ syllabi not rigorous enough, despite the fact that we all cry like mollycoddled children about ‘mental health’ due to how intense they may be and possibly engage more in the ‘sesh’ or ‘exam memes’ than school? I wonder how the Chinese or South Korean kids would react to these reformed exams.

Do Asian countries have the same culture where a clever, studious kid is labelled with ‘nerd’ or ‘geek’, or even a ‘neek’?

Do our schools not have enough discipline and/or fail to foster a culture of respecting our teachers?

I’m curious to hear your thoughts on this. What reasons do you think are to blame for our lacklustre performance in the PISA tests, especially compared to the top-performing Asian countries? Is our education system truly elite?

Do you think that after the reforms to our curriculum, our performance will increase in the future?

I would sooner we look after our children's wellbeing and mental health than turn them even more into results machines, fine we might not be top of some meaningless table but that does not matter if we are looking after our students. My school was a grammar and pushed and pushed people, needless to say that many did poorly as a result because they were so stressed out. Asian kids are prepped from birth by their parents it's not healthy and shouldn't be held up as a flawless example of education.

PRSOM

To add, @Tolgarda, it may also be to do with the economic situation of some of the Asian countries in question. Most families grew up with little in their pocket, so the value of education and the pursuing of the very best increased there. Parents knew that with education, they would be able to change their plights and so they drove their children to do so.

However, I’ve got to agree with Cavy’s point here. That instillation of fear has been embedded into these children’s mind, along with guilt and worry. I don’t think this is healthy in the slgihtest. Education should be enriching and enlightening students so the world can have a better future, not a chore that the younger generation are trying to fulfil because their parents couldn’t. That drive for excellence will begin to fizzle our and that’s not what we need.