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Oxford Medicine (2020 Entry)

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Have you seen this questionnaire for UK medical school applicants (entry 2020)? It's about choosing between medical schools. https://bit.ly/2V8vBAj

It takes 20 minutes and is part of our academic research study about medical school admissions, called the UK Medical Applicant Cohort Study. The study is funded by the National Institute for Health Research and led by Dr Katherine Woolf from University College London (UCL).

The results will help future students apply to medical school and help the NHS get the best doctors. When you take part you can enter into a draw (lottery) to win Amazon vouchers (prizes: 2 x £500 vouchers, 5 x £250 vouchers and, 50 x £50 vouchers).

Students who've already filled in the questionnaire have said:
" I found this questionnaire helpful, it reminded me of why I wanted to apply to a medical school in the first place and my current set of skills to see what else I need to for my application. I hope my answers can help future medical students in any way."
" Very Interesting questionnaire, it helped me learn about myself and my choices more."
"This has helped me condense a lot of important information about medical schools."
" I enjoyed doing this questionnaire and I hope my response is useful. Thank you for the opportunity!"

The research team stores the information you provide securely and keeps it confidential. The study is NOT part of any medical school application process. The information you give will NOT be used to make any decisions about you that will affect your education or career. Your information will ONLY be used for academic research. For more information see the Study Information Sheet (click to download) and see the study website: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/medical-school...t-cohort-study.

There are two ways to complete the questionnaire, depending on whether or not you’re taking UCAT:
I’m NOT taking UCAT: Complete the questionnaire directly here: https://bit.ly/2V8vBAj
OR
I’m taking UCAT: when you book a test, you will be asked if the researchers can contact you; tick YES and they will send you a personalised link to the questionnaire for you to fill in. If you have already booked a UCAT test but have not received a personalised link, please complete the questionnaire directly here: https://bit.ly/2V8vBAj

Please only complete the questionnaire once.

Thank you in advance for assisting this important research project.

Thank you to the Student Room for allowing us to share our study on their website.

If you have any questions feel free to email the study [email protected]

The UK Medical Applicant Cohort Study is funded by the National Institute for Health Research (grant reference: CDF-2017-10-008) and based at UCL Medical School (UCL Research Ethics reference: 0511/014). The views expressed are those of the researchers and not necessarily those of the NIHR or the Department of Health and Social Care.

Reply 81

Oxford Mum

Yes, they are, but at Oxford you have an old fashioned face to face traditional interview. They ask you a lot of science questions, which are outside your school curriculum, and you have to make a stab at the answer! You need to know your sciences back to front. It's hard, but do-able.

Original post by Jtohunt

If your strength is GCSE's, applying to GCSE heavy Uni's is good, but remember, it only generally secures you an interview. In that case, the main criteria in getting an offer, is doing really well at the Interview. That is what will distinguish you from the other heavy GCSE candidates. And in most cases, the interviews are MMI style Interviews.

Reply 82

Jtohunt

Original post by Oxford Mum

Yes, Oxford is similar to Cambridge in terms of asking a lot of science questions in interview, and use the traditional style interview. Of the other 6 BMAT Universities for the A100 course, only UCL and ICL (Imperial), use traditional style interviews, the rest use MMI.

Reply 83

username2391805

Hey me too!! I got 12 A* at gcse, predicted A/A* at A level and i’m doing chem, biol, geography and welsh baccalaureate (weak subjects maybe?). I don’t have much work experience- 1 week gp, 1 week hospital, 2 weeks care home. I don’t know if I should apply since I’m struggling with ucat and I don’t know if I have the time or the energy to prepare for the bmat. After all, I don’t want to get behind on my actual A levels. So yeah I want to, but I doubt I’d get in

Reply 84

Oxford Mum

You have strong academics - maybe you can practice in the holidays? Have you got a UCAT/BMAT book? If still struggling, could always go on a course, but expensive...

After you have read book, use Medify for a month (timed practice questions, but have to pay)
After you have read BMAT course, use BMAT ninja .

It looks daunting at first, but the more you practice with Medify and ninja, the better you will get...

(Original post by Anna191817)

Reply 85

apricitea

hey! glad to see this thread exists haha i'm so scared for this whole process.
gcse's: 999999888 (9 a*s) - went to a non-selective state school
predicted grades: currently it is a*a*a in bio, psych and chem respectively and an A in maths AS (i am sitting maths AS as my school offers the course). BUT i'm hopefully going to get chemistry moved up to a* because that's what i got all year but i messed up my final mock.

work experience: 5 days shadowing consultant cardiologists, also got to shadow porters and radiologists in cath labs.
been volunteering at a hospital for a year now on the wards helping nurses

(edited 4 years ago)

Reply 86

nexttime

Original post by apricitea

hey! glad to see this thread exists haha i'm so scared for this whole process.
gcse's: 999999888 (9 a*s)
predicted grades: currently it is a*a*a in bio, psych and chem respectively and an A in maths AS (i am sitting maths AS as my school offers the course). BUT i'm hopefully going to get chemistry moved up to a* because that's what i got all year but i messed up my final mock.

work experience: 5 days shadowing consultant cardiologists, also got to shadow porters and have been volunteering at a hospital for a year now on the wards helping nurses

Nice.

You know the radiologists were probably consultants too right? Just strange that you qualify cardiologists but not radiologists when they are both medical specialities!

Reply 87

apricitea

Original post by nexttime

Nice.

You know the radiologists were probably consultants too right? Just strange that you qualify cardiologists but not radiologists when they are both medical specialities!

haha yeah sorry, I meant consultant radiologists!!

Reply 88

Jtohunt

Original post by apricitea

hey! glad to see this thread exists haha i'm so scared for this whole process.
gcse's: 999999888 (9 a*s)
predicted grades: currently it is a*a*a in bio, psych and chem respectively and an A in maths AS (i am sitting maths AS as my school offers the course). BUT i'm hopefully going to get chemistry moved up to a* because that's what i got all year but i messed up my final mock.

work experience: 5 days shadowing consultant cardiologists, also got to shadow porters and radiologists in cath labs.
been volunteering at a hospital for a year now on the wards helping nurses

You have excellent stats, good luck with your application. How's your PS coming along or have you already done it? And how is your BMAT prep going? Where else have you applied too?

Reply 89

apricitea

Original post by Jtohunt

You have excellent stats, good luck with your application. How's your PS coming along or have you already done it? And how is your BMAT prep going? Where else have you applied too?

thank you!! PS I have a draft which I need to edit a bit more and then hopefully it should be done (it's getting there basically haha). I did my UCAT like a week ago and wasn't happy :frown:

but I only really like bmat universities to be honest! I've printed off the BMAT specification and have very recently started going through the revision guides for the BMAT. other than oxford I will definitely apply to Brighton and Sussex med school / BSMS and then I'm considering Cardiff/manchester/Southampton and I might apply to UCL if I decide to do 3 BMAT unis (not sure yet basically!).

i'm not sure what BMAT books to buy though/if I should buy any. I was thinking of getting the 700Q one?

(edited 4 years ago)

Reply 90

Jtohunt

Original post by apricitea

thank you!! PS I have a draft which I need to edit a bit more and then hopefully it should be done (it's getting there basically haha). I did my UCAT like a week ago and wasn't happy :frown:

Yes the 'Get into Medical School - 700 BMAT Practice Questions' by Lydia Campbell & Olivier Picard is a good one.
Also an excellent website to join is BMAT Ninja to get loads of practice questions. https://bmat.ninja/

Cardiff was one of my choices also and UCL. Cardiff you need good GCSE's which you have. They take your best 9, so you would likely get an interview with 9 A*s, that's the maximum of their points system, 27, with 3 points for an A*, 2 for an A and 1 for a B. You don't need a great UCAT score at Cardiff, but you would have to ace the interview, which is an MMI style.

UCL are the same entry requirements as Oxford, but you will need a good BMAT score to likely get an interview.

You have some good options. By the way, make sure your PS is Oxbridge style. I didn't list any extra curricular activities, only hinted at a couple. My PS was Oxbridge style, so PS was more about my love of science as a whole and my passion for medicine. Oxbridge don't care for Extra curricular. I hinted at playing double bass and piano in an orchestra and taking my grade 8 exams, by comparing the focus and concentration you need to that of a Urologist surgeon I had shadowed for Work experience, and how I felt when I watched him perform in surgery. It's difficult to know what to say in your PS, but because one of the Uni's I applied to was Cambridge, after taking advice I knew it had to be structured to satisfy Cambridge. The same would be for Oxford. From that the rest of the medical Schools on seeing my application and PS, would have known I had applied to Oxbridge, which subcontiously, they may feel I was a strong candidate and sway them (maybe) to have a closer look at me. Of course no guarantees though.

I hope that helps. :smile:

Reply 91

nexttime

Original post by Jtohunt

You have some good options. By the way, make sure your PS is Oxbridge style. I didn't list any extra curricular activities, only hinted at a couple. My PS was Oxbridge style, so PS was more about my love of science as a whole and my passion for medicine. Oxbridge don't care for Extra curricular. I hinted at playing double bass and piano in an orchestra and taking my grade 8 exams, by comparing the focus and concentration you need to that of a Urologist surgeon I had shadowed for Work experience, and how I felt when I watched him perform in surgery. It's difficult to know what to say in your PS, but because one of the Uni's I applied to was Cambridge, after taking advice I knew it had to be structured to satisfy Cambridge. The same would be for Oxford.

This is not the 'normal' advice given around here, and is not something I agree with.

Oxbridge have long scoffed at the PS, considering it to be the ramblings of the candidate's parents and teachers. Perhaps some other unis had to use it, but with the multiple Oxbridge interviews it was kind of redundant for them. There was a controversy about whether they were even read (you can google) - certainly in some cases they were not. More likely though, the interviewers would quickly glance through them and might use them as a prompt for an interview question or two. Certainly, its not 'scored', before or after interview.

There are, however, a few medical schools that do directly score the personal statement. They are a minority these days, but for these the PS may be crucial. In general, the PS is going to be more important for med schools that place heavier emphasis on non-academic skills and work experience etc. Oxbridge are quite clear: for them, academics are more important. The only exception might be in mentioning extenuating circumstances.

I would not agree with tailoring the PS to Oxbridge. I'd do the opposite: tailor it to elsewhere.

Reply 92

Jtohunt

Original post by nexttime

You would have done better to start off your criticism with, "It's something you do not agree with", rather than, "this is not the normal advice given round here", as if you speak for everybody on this thread.
Oxbridge, may scoff at the PS, but as a 17 yr old you are not to know that. What you do is, you take advice from careers people who know. We had dedicated Oxbridge career staff who hosted Oxbridge application evenings at our school. It was they who advised how to make our application to Oxbridge, as well as other sources. I had to re do my PS twice, because my careers teacher did not think it was good enough for Oxbridge. If the PS did not matter, how would Oxbridge distinguish one candidate from another, who they deemed worthy of an interview, if most candidates are acacdemicaly similar, with similar grades. They don't interview everyone with top GCSE's say 9 A*s for example, so how would they decide to invite for an interview? The PS is the only distinguishing factor. If they decide not to interview a candidate with say 11 A*s, what is it about their application, that will lead Oxbridge not to give them an interview? You have the required academic background (grades), a fantastic reference from your school to go with it, then what else would they need to decide whether to invite you for an Interview or not? Your PS! Also, why would many sites like 'Uni Admissions and 'the Medic Portal', give advice on Oxbridge applications and advise on what to say in your PS. It can't be for nothing!

In any event, I did not say Oxbridge score the PS and I placed no emphasis on it, save to give a little advice on how to construct it, as I was advised. I obtained an interview for Cambridge as well as many in my school otained interviews for both Oxford and Cambridge. So the advice given from our school, must have been good enough to enable us to get an interview. Surely, that must be the point of the PS and hence some form of measurement/criteria would be used?

You can't taylor your PS to elsewhere, because you can only do one personal statement, not 4. If you taylor it to another Uni, that uni (as part of your PS), maybe interested in your extra curricular activities or what you do in your spare time, but Oxbridge don't. So if Oxbridge is one of your choices, it's almost certainly going to be your 1st choice, therefore, your PS will be geared towards what Oxbridge would expect to see in a PS. Hence my phrase Oxbridge style.

Thus, it's a fallacy to say essentially, that the PS is unimportant at Oxbridge. By some deduction, some importance must be placed on it. It's a tool which will have weight in deciding whether to invite you for an interview.

See also https://oxbridgeapplications.com/blog/how-to-write-a-brilliant-personal-statement/

Reply 93

nexttime

Original post by Jtohunt

I speak for my experience on TSR.

Oxbridge, may scoff at the PS, but as a 17 yr old you are not to know that. What you do is, you take advice from careers people who know. We had dedicated Oxbridge career staff who hosted Oxbridge application evenings at our school. It was they who advised how to make our application to Oxbridge, as well as other sources. I had to re do my PS twice, because my careers teacher did not think it was good enough for Oxbridge.

How many of them went to Oxbridge to do medicine? How many of them interviewed Oxford candidates?

I can't speak for your specific advisers, but many really don't have the experience to talk about specific university courses.

If the PS did not matter, how would Oxbridge distinguish one candidate from another, who they deemed worthy of an interview, if most candidates are acacdemicaly similar, with similar grades. They don't interview everyone with top GCSE's say 9 A*s for example, so how would they decide to invite for an interview?

Well that's easy - interviews are determined by BMAT and GCSEs combined. A few places at the end are kept behind for people with special circumstances, which may include information got from the PS.

https://www.medsci.ox.ac.uk/study/medicine/pre-clinical/statistics

The PS is the only distinguishing factor.

You literally just listed loads of other factors :lolwut:

After interview the interview becomes by far the most important factor. In some colleges its pretty much the only factor.

Also, why would many sites like 'Uni Admissions and 'the Medic Portal', give advice on Oxbridge applications and advise on what to say in your PS. It can't be for nothing!

Because people are worried about it and those sites are there to make money.

In any event, I did not say Oxbridge score the PS and I placed no emphasis on it, save to give a little advice on how to construct it, as I was advised. I obtained an interview for Cambridge as well as many in my school otained interviews for both Oxford and Cambridge. So the advice given from our school, must have been good enough to enable us to get an interview. Surely, that must be the point of the PS and hence some form of measurement/criteria would be used?

Or alternatively, the PS wasn't important and you got an interview on your own merit rather than your school's?

You can't taylor your PS to elsewhere, because you can only do one personal statement, not 4.

Precisely. So tailor it to the unis that place greater emphasis on non-academic factors. Surely that is obvious? No 'deduction' needed.

That's just another private company. And it doesn't even mention medicine.

How about an article where tutors admit they don't read them https://cherwell.org/2009/05/21/oxford-tutors-admit-they-ignore-personal-statements/

(edited 4 years ago)

Reply 94

Jtohunt

Original post by nexttime

"How many of them went to Oxbridge to do medicine? How many of them interviewed Oxford candidates?"

I'm only talking about my year and I was talking about a variety of courses regarding Oxbridge not just medicine. In relation to medicine, 7 were invited for interview and only 1 got an offer from Oxford. The person who got the offer, had the least highest grades at GCSE and the least highest BMAT score out of the 7 invited for interview. So obviously his Interview (which obviously went well) was what enabled him to secure an offer.

The advice I gave to @apricitea, was based on my experience, and was in relation to the initial application to Oxbridge, not post interview. The initial application is about securing an interview. If 7 of our cohort applying to do Medicine at Oxbridge secured interviews, then the careers people at the school, must be doing something right.

"I can't speak for your specific advisers, but many really don't have the experience to talk about specific university courses."

Our careers advisers regarding Oxbridge entry, were advising about the application to Oxbridge, rather than the specific courses themselves.

"Well that's easy - interviews are determined by BMAT and GCSEs combined. A few places at the end are kept behind for people with special circumstances, which may include information got from the PS."

Yes I meant to include the BMAT Score in the determination for interview along with GCSE grades and PS.

https://www.medsci.ox.ac.uk/study/medicine/pre-clinical/statistics

"After interview the interview becomes by far the most important factor. In some colleges its pretty much the only factor."

Of course after interview, the interview becomes by far the most important factor, as with all medical schools I would suggest if they have one. Edinburgh is one that comes to mind that do not have interviews. As I stated, my advice was on pre interview, providing the best application you can to secure an interview.

"Or alternatively, the PS wasn't important and you got an interview on your own merit rather than your school's?"

That may be the case, but the fact they provide the service, why would any potential candidate not listen to or take their advice, especially if they have a proven track record of obtaining interviews at Oxbridge.

"Precisely. So tailor it to the unis that place greater emphasis on non-academic factors. Surely that is obvious?"

That's the point, it's not obvious, because you are the only one giving that advice. If all other mediums and outlets say to do the complete opposite to your lone voice, then it cannot be obvious. Most people, based on human behaviour follow the masses and not the lone voice.

"That's just another private company. And it doesn't even mention medicine."

It won't mention individual courses as a whole, it's assuming the same applies to all courses, as logic would dictate. It doesn't mention, law, engineering, education or any course, thus, assumes a holistic approach to all courses.

"How about an article where tutors admit they don't read them https://cherwell.org/2009/05/21/oxford-tutors-admit-they-
ignore-personal-statements/"

Interesting article, is that still the standard practice today? As the article is 10 years old.

In any event, tayloring your PS to Oxbridge, cannot hurt your application to Oxbridge, whether they read it or not, it can only be a positive. I secured 4 interviews and obtained 3 offers out of 4 from my Application, which included a so called Oxbridge style PS. So it didn't harm my application, which is why I shared my experience.

Reply 95

Jtohunt

Didn't know how to cut each question into seperate paragraphs like you did. :confused:

Reply 96

nexttime

Jtohunt

The initial application is about securing an interview. If 7 of our cohort applying to do Medicine at Oxbridge secured interviews, then the careers people at the school, must be doing something right.

But not necessarily. I'm sure that if I said 'well your interview wasn't successful it must have been your poor personal statement' you'd rightly point out that there are many other factors involved. To reduce it down to one isn't logical at all. Also you didn't even say out of how many that 7 was

An entirely viable alternative is that the PS was irrelevant pre-interview.

Our careers advisers regarding Oxbridge entry, were advising about the application to Oxbridge, rather than the specific courses themselves.

And as I asked: had they been through that process themselves? Were they former interviewers? Because that's what you can get here on TSR.

As I stated, my advice was on pre interview, providing the best application you can to secure an interview.

But if that's the case then I've already provided an Oxford-published source that explains the pre-interview selection precisely and shows there is extremely limited room for the PS i.e. 90% of interviews are allocated without even reading them. I will even specifically copy an paste the relevant paragraph if you want:

"As part of the process to decide which applicants are called to interview, we established a numerical ranking on the basis of GCSE performance and BMAT results...This ranking formed the basis of an initial shortlist
...
The applications of candidates who did not make the initial shortlist were then reviewed by tutors, taking into account any individual circumstances - both academic and non-academic - that might indicate that GCSE and/or BMAT performance is likely to have underestimated their potential. Any applicants deemed worthy of further consideration were then reviewed by a cross-college panel, alongside applicants immediately below the initial shortlist. As a result of this process around 40 additional applicants [out of 425] were added to the shortlist."

As you can see, a) only about 10% of places are held for people form whom the PS was read and b) what they are looking for in those 40 is reasons why their GCSE and BMAT might not be accurate for them i.e. extenuating circumstances. I can't say that they couldn't see an absolutely amazing amazing PS and despite no extenuating circumstances decide to let you in through that route anyway, but we're talking against protocol highly atypical highly unusual stuff here, if it exists at all.

Pre-interview, the PS is relevant for extenuating circs only, as stated by them.

That may be the case, but the fact they provide the service, why would any potential candidate not listen to or take their advice, especially if they have a proven track record of obtaining interviews at Oxbridge.

Because their advice applies to all subjects except medicine. Medicine is fundamentally different. Its a) vocational. This means that your PS shouldn't just be a list of academic achievements - it needs to be a statement of why you are applying for a career that will last the rest of your life. Its completely different! and b) with other subjects you can just assume you will get an offer elsewhere. In medicine, that is not the case at all. 60% of applicants get no offers. You need to have the aim of getting an offer in your mind, much ahead of getting one specific offer. Even if Oxbridge did like the PS, arguably you should still be catering the PS to the majority.

That's the point, it's not obvious, because you are the only one giving that advice. If all other mediums and outlets say to do the complete opposite to your lone voice, then it cannot be obvious. Most people, based on human behaviour follow the masses and not the lone voice.

Why don't we go one step further and survey people in the street about what they think?

The truth is not determined by majority vote.

"That's just another private company. And it doesn't even mention medicine."

It won't mention individual courses as a whole, it's assuming the same applies to all courses, as logic would dictate. It doesn't mention, law, engineering, education or any course, thus, assumes a holistic approach to all courses.

Which is wrong, as above. These companies probably don't even have an Oxbridge medic in them.

Reply 97

nexttime

Original post by Jtohunt

Interesting article, is that still the standard practice today? As the article is 10 years old.

I'm not sure it was ever 'standard practice'. It was a candid unofficial revealing of what actually happens i think though, and that will be no less true today than then!

My head tutor was absolutely scathing about the PS, viewing it, as i said before, as a bit of creative writing written by parents and teachers, not a viable method as assessment for a life-changing admission to a medical course!

In any event, tayloring your PS to Oxbridge, cannot hurt your application to Oxbridge, whether they read it or not, it can only be a positive. I secured 4 interviews and obtained 3 offers out of 4 from my Application, which included a so called Oxbridge style PS. So it didn't harm my application, which is why I shared my experience.

But it can be negative. Really negative. It might affect your chance at other unis! I know you secured other offers (congrats) but most other people won't! In particular, were your offers from more academic unis? Unis that might not be scoring personal statements on the basis of how good your reflection on your work experience is and how many examples of good teamwork you included? Because that is what some unis do!

Original post by Jtohunt

Didn't know how to cut each question into seperate paragraphs like you did. :confused:

Copy and paste the reply then copy and paste [quo te] and [[/quo te] around the desired sections and delete the rest. Or at least, that's how i do it!

Reply 98

Jtohunt

nexttime

That's my point, the personal statement would not list my academic achievement. It would be exactly similar to what you've suggested, why I wish to do medicine, talk about my passion for the subject and any relevent work experience and what you got out of it and how it relates to medicine etc. Which is why I said they are not interested in extra curricular. So inadvertently, you are ticking the box for other Uni's regarding PS's and medicine.

In particular, were your offers from more academic unis? Unis that might not be scoring personal statements on the basis of how good your reflection on your work experience is and how many examples of good teamwork you included? Because that is what some unis do!

I received offers from UCL, KCL and Cardiff

90% of interviews are allocated without even reading them. "As part of the process to decide which applicants are called to interview, we established a numerical ranking on the basis of GCSE performance and BMAT results...This ranking formed the basis of an initial shortlist.

Not everyone who has excellent GCSE's and good BMAT scores gets an interview, there's many candidates on TSR who say so, getting rejected pre interview. There are also many with not so good GCSE's and BMAT scores who do get invited for interview. There are also candidates who were rejected post interview, who stated in the feedback they received from the college that rejected them, that their GCSE's were not quite good enough, which I found bizarre, on the part of the college, beause they invited them for interview knowing what there interview score was.
So selection is obviously not so clear cut.

In any event, of course GCSE grades and BAT scores are the most important as I've stated, but in determining who gets an interview, it's not just based on that, because otherwise people with lower scores and grades would not be invited for interview. And if the PS does not matter, it would not be required. Getting someone to write your PS, makes no sense, if you are asked questions about it in an interview as some uni's might you might come a cropper.

The whole point is to make your application as strong as possible, and to stand out amongst the crowd. Most people applying for medicine are similar academically, strong grades and good BMAT scores, so what can distinguish you from that. The PS is part of the UCAS system so you may as well try and do an excellent job with it. If I'm advised to taylor my PS in a certain way and I do and it proves fruitful, why would I not share that. I won't think any different, even if you suggest it's only coincidental.