Jihadi Jack stripped of British citizenship.
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Original post by imlikeahermit
Can’t honestly tell if you’re trolling or not...
I am not
Original post by JanusGodofDoors
They are cowards, playing for political advantage. This man should be brought back to this country and held to account for what he has done. If we need new legislation to prosecute people like him, so be it. British terrorists should not be the problem of other countries. I don’t feel any sympathy for this guy, but I certainly do feel we should take responsibility for him.
Except he would probably be sentenced to about 18 years and let out earlier for good behaviour. Our sentencing is a joke
Original post by CoolCavy
Except he would probably be sentenced to about 18 years and let out earlier for good behaviour. Our sentencing is a joke
That is a fair argument, but perhaps seeing a high profile case like this in the courts and in the media might lead to reform of the sentencing and parole systems
Original post by Wired_1800
Yes, this is legally different but the same outcome. The terrorist was born in the UK, followed the British education system and lived among us as one of us. Now, we look for a loophole to throw him away. It is abhorrent.
It shows that anyone with dual nationality is not safe and are second class citizens where the government can discard them. Yet, we want these same people to show unquestionable loyalty to our country. It is foolish.
It shows that anyone with dual nationality is not safe and are second class citizens where the government can discard them. Yet, we want these same people to show unquestionable loyalty to our country. It is foolish.
Original post by Wired_1800
I am not
In which case, what I’ve quoted is the most ridiculous thing I’ve seen on this forum.
Original post by JanusGodofDoors
They are cowards, playing for political advantage. This man should be brought back to this country and held to account for what he has done. If we need new legislation to prosecute people like him, so be it. British terrorists should not be the problem of other countries. I don’t feel any sympathy for this guy, but I certainly do feel we should take responsibility for him.
I entirely agree with you. The key failure is the failure to reform the Foreign Enlistment Acts.
In 1870 laws were passed to stop Brits signing up to fight for either side in the Franco-Prussian War. They were later used to deal with Brits meddling in other people's wars in South America and elsewhere.
Those laws were then found to be inadequate to deal with the facts of the Spanish Civil War.
They have never been looked at since.
The Government wants to deal with cases like Jihadi Jack as terrorism but the evidence for his terrorism lies somewhere on a Syrian battlefield. So because the doesn't think it can build a case against him for terrorism, it tries the obscene idea of playing "me first" with Canada.
All that is needed is an offence of going overseas to get involved in someone else's war without the permission of the UK Government drafted to deal with the sort of irregular warfare that we have today without ranks and uniforms.
Original post by Wired_1800
To tie our patriotism to the Empire was a deluded exercise. There are many nations who are far weaker, poorer and insignificant with patriotic citizens. People were made to feel patriotic based on features that became non-existent. It does not mean that British people should not be patriotic of their nation.
Also, the way the Government treats its citizens pushes people away from being patriotic. For many people esp middle-class people to leave their somewhat comfortable lives in the UK to go to support and fight for our enemies, who want to wipe us out, should wake us up. We are fed lies from the politicians and media that they are not responsible but we need to realise that system has bred a hatred of the UK by its own citizens.
Look at this example, where a British national was discarded using a loophole in his ancestry. How can we tell dual nationals to love and support the UK when they know that they will be discarded and are generally regarded as second-class citizens.
Also, the way the Government treats its citizens pushes people away from being patriotic. For many people esp middle-class people to leave their somewhat comfortable lives in the UK to go to support and fight for our enemies, who want to wipe us out, should wake us up. We are fed lies from the politicians and media that they are not responsible but we need to realise that system has bred a hatred of the UK by its own citizens.
Look at this example, where a British national was discarded using a loophole in his ancestry. How can we tell dual nationals to love and support the UK when they know that they will be discarded and are generally regarded as second-class citizens.
Those weaker and poorer incredibly patriotic nations are usually homogeneous; have a history pre-dating the 20th century; were conquered/colonised and regained their independence (usually by force); and/or are in a state of conflict with another nation (Israel/Palestine, India/Pakistan, etc).
The UK is in a completely different category. Although it has never been colonised or conquered, and has made peace with its rivals France and Germany a long time ago, it is no longer homogeneous and therefore it cannot glorify its past because most of it was spent subjugating many people whose descendants happen to be British citizens, which would, naturally, upset them.
The situation in Mongolia, for example, is different. Mongolians take pride in their history and individuals such as Genghis Khan. Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe that Mongolians scold one another for being proud of their most iconic countryman of all time, after all, a 131 foot statue of the man was built in 2008. When people mention his ability to unite the Mongol tribes, which laid the foundation for the greatest land empire of all time, at no point are others reminding them that he murdered untold millions of people across Eurasia and ended the Islamic Golden Age because of what he did to the city of Baghdad.
Now, compare and contrast that with a discussion of Churchill in the UK.
Regarding the rest of your post, I agree completely that "we are fed lies from the politicians and media that they are not responsible but we need to realise that system has bred a hatred of the UK by its own citizens".
However, that does not change the fact that British patriotism was based on the prestige of the empire, which would explain why patriotism in the UK has fallen drastically since Suez (the end of the superpower status and decolonisation on steroids). If you still disagree with this statement, explain to me what the pillars of British patriotism were in the first half of the 20th century - what made Brits proud to be British?
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by Other_Owl
They can't revoke both his citizenships as under UN law it's illegal to make someone stateless.
We haven’t broken any UN laws. Plus I’d risk breaking them if I were Canada.
Original post by Wired_1800
Another foolish act by Mr Javid. He is disowning British nationals and showing the world that the UK has contempt for its citizens.
And Jack Letts showed his contempt for the UK by declaring himself an "enemy of Britain" and saying he wanted to be a suicide bomber.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-48624104
Original post by imlikeahermit
In which case, what I’ve quoted is the most ridiculous thing I’ve seen on this forum.
Lol, ok
Original post by Surnia
And Jack Letts showed his contempt for the UK by declaring himself an "enemy of Britain" and saying he wanted to be a suicide bomber.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-48624104
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-48624104
So we should discard him? A British national?
British prisons are Jihadis factories.
Moderate Muslims go in, Jihadis come out.
The further we keep him from a British prison the better as he will only poison the well.
Moderate Muslims go in, Jihadis come out.
The further we keep him from a British prison the better as he will only poison the well.
Javid has shown immense moral courage in standing up to the thugs and the terrrorists in spite of the vile abuse he has suffered from both the far-left as well as the far-right.
They turned their backs on this nation and now in their hour of need we will deny them the same mercy they denied to so many Yazidi girls and Kurdish villagers. My only regret is that we are not coming down far harder on his parents for funding a terror organisation in sending him money which was no doubt used to purchase weapons and armaments to faciliate Daesh's terrorist acitivities or worse yet to allow their monster of a son to purchase young girls on the slave markets of Raqqa and rob them of their innocence and their childhoods.
They turned their backs on this nation and now in their hour of need we will deny them the same mercy they denied to so many Yazidi girls and Kurdish villagers. My only regret is that we are not coming down far harder on his parents for funding a terror organisation in sending him money which was no doubt used to purchase weapons and armaments to faciliate Daesh's terrorist acitivities or worse yet to allow their monster of a son to purchase young girls on the slave markets of Raqqa and rob them of their innocence and their childhoods.
Original post by Stalin
Those weaker and poorer incredibly patriotic nations are usually homogeneous; have a history pre-dating the 20th century; were conquered/colonised and regained their independence (usually by force); and/or are in a state of conflict with another nation (Israel/Palestine, India/Pakistan, etc).
The UK is in a completely different category. Although it has never been colonised or conquered, and has made peace with its rivals France and Germany a long time ago, it is no longer homogeneous and therefore it cannot glorify its past because most of it was spent subjugating many people whose descendants happen to be British citizens, which would, naturally, upset them.
The situation in Mongolia, for example, is different. Mongolians take pride in their history and individuals such as Genghis Khan. Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe that Mongolians scold one another for being proud of their most iconic countryman of all time, after all, a 131 foot statue of the man was built in 2008. When people mention his ability to unite the Mongol tribes, which laid the foundation for the greatest land empire of all time, at no point are others reminding them that he murdered untold millions of people across Eurasia and ended the Islamic Golden Age because of what he did to the city of Baghdad.
Now, compare and contrast that with a discussion of Churchill in the UK.
Regarding the rest of your post, I agree completely that "we are fed lies from the politicians and media that they are not responsible but we need to realise that system has bred a hatred of the UK by its own citizens".
However, that does not change the fact that British patriotism was based on the prestige of the empire, which would explain why patriotism in the UK has fallen drastically since Suez (the end of the superpower status and decolonisation on steroids). If you still disagree with this statement, explain to me what the pillars of British patriotism were in the first half of the 20th century - what made Brits proud to be British?
The UK is in a completely different category. Although it has never been colonised or conquered, and has made peace with its rivals France and Germany a long time ago, it is no longer homogeneous and therefore it cannot glorify its past because most of it was spent subjugating many people whose descendants happen to be British citizens, which would, naturally, upset them.
The situation in Mongolia, for example, is different. Mongolians take pride in their history and individuals such as Genghis Khan. Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe that Mongolians scold one another for being proud of their most iconic countryman of all time, after all, a 131 foot statue of the man was built in 2008. When people mention his ability to unite the Mongol tribes, which laid the foundation for the greatest land empire of all time, at no point are others reminding them that he murdered untold millions of people across Eurasia and ended the Islamic Golden Age because of what he did to the city of Baghdad.
Now, compare and contrast that with a discussion of Churchill in the UK.
Regarding the rest of your post, I agree completely that "we are fed lies from the politicians and media that they are not responsible but we need to realise that system has bred a hatred of the UK by its own citizens".
However, that does not change the fact that British patriotism was based on the prestige of the empire, which would explain why patriotism in the UK has fallen drastically since Suez (the end of the superpower status and decolonisation on steroids). If you still disagree with this statement, explain to me what the pillars of British patriotism were in the first half of the 20th century - what made Brits proud to be British?
I think you are talking about being patriotic to the atrocities committed by the Empire. Many countries are not homogenous but patriotic. For example, the Americans.
Original post by DrFingeringMums
Just look at that face does that look like the face of a killer?
I don't know can you tell me what murder look like do they have horns or do they like any person on the street
Original post by Wired_1800
So we should discard him? A British national?
He's abandoned this country, we've ababdoned him. Seems fair to me.
Original post by akbar0123
He is a terrorist, but he is British and it is unfair on Canada for Britain to just let Canada deal with it when he was born and raised in Britain. He should be brought to Britain and given a fair trial.
Agreed. Removing citizenship at the behest of vote-seeking politicians also sets a very bad precedent. It's one of the cornerstones of fascist states to do this. The man should be put on trial for his crimes.
Original post by Stalin
Those weaker and poorer incredibly patriotic nations are usually homogeneous; have a history pre-dating the 20th century; were conquered/colonised and regained their independence (usually by force); and/or are in a state of conflict with another nation (Israel/Palestine, India/Pakistan, etc).
The UK is in a completely different category. Although it has never been colonised or conquered, and has made peace with its rivals France and Germany a long time ago, it is no longer homogeneous and therefore it cannot glorify its past because most of it was spent subjugating many people whose descendants happen to be British citizens, which would, naturally, upset them.
The situation in Mongolia, for example, is different. Mongolians take pride in their history and individuals such as Genghis Khan. Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe that Mongolians scold one another for being proud of their most iconic countryman of all time, after all, a 131 foot statue of the man was built in 2008. When people mention his ability to unite the Mongol tribes, which laid the foundation for the greatest land empire of all time, at no point are others reminding them that he murdered untold millions of people across Eurasia and ended the Islamic Golden Age because of what he did to the city of Baghdad.
Now, compare and contrast that with a discussion of Churchill in the UK.
Regarding the rest of your post, I agree completely that "we are fed lies from the politicians and media that they are not responsible but we need to realise that system has bred a hatred of the UK by its own citizens".
However, that does not change the fact that British patriotism was based on the prestige of the empire, which would explain why patriotism in the UK has fallen drastically since Suez (the end of the superpower status and decolonisation on steroids). If you still disagree with this statement, explain to me what the pillars of British patriotism were in the first half of the 20th century - what made Brits proud to be British?
The UK is in a completely different category. Although it has never been colonised or conquered, and has made peace with its rivals France and Germany a long time ago, it is no longer homogeneous and therefore it cannot glorify its past because most of it was spent subjugating many people whose descendants happen to be British citizens, which would, naturally, upset them.
The situation in Mongolia, for example, is different. Mongolians take pride in their history and individuals such as Genghis Khan. Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe that Mongolians scold one another for being proud of their most iconic countryman of all time, after all, a 131 foot statue of the man was built in 2008. When people mention his ability to unite the Mongol tribes, which laid the foundation for the greatest land empire of all time, at no point are others reminding them that he murdered untold millions of people across Eurasia and ended the Islamic Golden Age because of what he did to the city of Baghdad.
Now, compare and contrast that with a discussion of Churchill in the UK.
Regarding the rest of your post, I agree completely that "we are fed lies from the politicians and media that they are not responsible but we need to realise that system has bred a hatred of the UK by its own citizens".
However, that does not change the fact that British patriotism was based on the prestige of the empire, which would explain why patriotism in the UK has fallen drastically since Suez (the end of the superpower status and decolonisation on steroids). If you still disagree with this statement, explain to me what the pillars of British patriotism were in the first half of the 20th century - what made Brits proud to be British?
Your Genghis Khan example is more to do with ignorance and centuries of propaganda than a rational grasp of the facts, but Mongolians are also a bad example in other respects - for centuries their people have been oppressed and attacked by other powers and the Khanate was an interruption to that during which they took vengeance on their oppressors. It isn't surprising against that background that they revere the Great Khan's memory. It's not the same story for Britain, which was an imperial power for some centuries and before that, for more centuries, a powerful unified nation which crushed foreign enemies (mostly) or as England attacked neighbours like Scotland, Wales and Ireland and colonised them brutally.
Original post by Wired_1800
I think you are talking about being patriotic to the atrocities committed by the Empire. Many countries are not homogenous but patriotic. For example, the Americans.
If you read my post you would have noticed that I never claimed that patriotism requires homogeniety per se, but that homogeneous countries are able to glorify the achievements of their ancestors without being branded as 'racists', 'slave owners', etc.
In terms of the Americans, they will face the same fate as the UK this century, especially when the dollar is no longer the world's reserve currency and the US' unipolar moment officially ends (i.e. their Suez):
Anyway, you seem to be dodging my question. My assertion is that British patriotism was built upon imperialism, and that the loss of empire destroyed British patriotism. Since decolonisation, it would seem that Britain has been trying to create a new sense of patriotism based on values (democracy, liberty, tolerance, openness, etc). However, judging by the record low levels of patriotism in the UK, it doesn't seem as if the new sense of patriotism is hitting the spot.
You said, "to tie our patriotism to the Empire was a deluded exercise." So, by all means, explain to me what the pillars of British patriotism were in the first half of the 20th century - what made Brits proud to be British before 1956 if it wasn't the Empire?
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Agreed. Removing citizenship at the behest of vote-seeking politicians also sets a very bad precedent. It's one of the cornerstones of fascist states to do this. The man should be put on trial for his crimes.
Facist? Behave.
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