Should transwomen be able to compete in women sports? Watch

iamcurious
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The transwomen are dominating women's sports, which I think is unfair to biological women.
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BlueIndigoViolet
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agree with you - understand why it is however on the flip side emotionally damaging to transwomen who want to participate, but I do think that having gone through puberty and its biological advantages (which men on average have over women) in many cases it is simply unfair to let them compete together, and the usual "try harder" is extremely dismissive of the work that these athletes have done as women.
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AngeryPenguin
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In other words: Should women be allowed to compete in womens' sports?

Hmm... what an odd question.
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Dunya
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No they shouldn't. They should create their own trans-Olympics.
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squeakysquirrel
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(Original post by iamcurious)
The transwomen are dominating women's sports, which I think is unfair to biological women.
Of course it is unfair - it is political correctness gone haywire.

A cyclist for example takes some sort of androgen to enhance his performance - he is found out and banned for life. A trans person - takes hormones in humongous quantities and whoa - yep you are welcome, compete against people who were born the opposite sex.


I will get my post taken down but once you stop taking the hormones your own natural DNA kicks back in - if that is a lie then I stand corrected - but trans people have to take hormones for the rest of their lives
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iamcurious
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(Original post by AngeryPenguin)
In other words: Should women be allowed to compete in womens' sports?

Hmm... what an odd question.
No, the distinction is very important given that transwomen are naturally much stronger/faster etc.
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WanderStruck
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(Original post by AngeryPenguin)
In other words: Should women be allowed to compete in womens' sports?

Hmm... what an odd question.
lmao exactly ^^
Trans women aren't 'trans women', they're women. Just because they had to transition into their gender doesn't make them any less women. I see many masculine-framed/bodied women - are they not allowed to compete in sport either?
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thewinelake
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(Original post by iamcurious)
The transwomen are dominating women's sports, which I think is unfair to biological women.
Are they? Which ones?
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Archetypally
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(Original post by WanderStruck)
lmao exactly ^^
Trans women aren't 'trans women', they're women. Just because they had to transition into their gender doesn't make them any less women. I see many masculine-framed/bodied women - are they not allowed to compete in sport either?
You've missed the point.
The point is not to demean their transition, it's acknowledging fundamental biological facts. The force that a man can generate comparative to a woman, for the most part, is extremely disproportionate. Of course, there are going to be exceptions, but in reality, you have a genetic advantage in a sport that a non-trans woman is not going to have.
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iamcurious
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(Original post by thewinelake)
Are they? Which ones?
Mixed martial arts is one example.
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WanderStruck
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(Original post by Archetypally)
You've missed the point.
The point is not to demean their transition, it's acknowledging fundamental biological facts. The force that a man can generate comparative to a woman, for the most part, is extremely disproportionate. Of course, there are going to be exceptions, but in reality, you have a genetic advantage in a sport that a non-trans woman is not going to have.
Yeah, but I don;t think you should separate based on whether or not someone has transitioned.
It should be about strength, or weight, speed, something along those lines and specific to the sport, not based on if a woman is taking hormones or if a guy is binding.
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squeakysquirrel
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But that is it - they are NOT women - they have had surgery in some cases and take vast quantities of drugs to dampen down their own bodies. Drugs in sport is an absolute no no.

Look if men want to chop their genitals off and wear women clothing whilst ingesting large quantities of pharmaceuticals then that is their choice. Men per se are naturally stronger and faster than women - hence fastest person in world is man. Greatest weightlifter in world is man etc. When you "transition" you are taking those advantages to your new role in life
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BlueIndigoViolet
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(Original post by squeakysquirrel)
But that is it - they are NOT women - they have had surgery in some cases and take vast quantities of drugs to dampen down their own bodies. Drugs in sport is an absolute no no.

Look if men want to chop their genitals off and wear women clothing whilst ingesting large quantities of pharmaceuticals then that is their choice. Men per se are naturally stronger and faster than women - hence fastest person in world is man. Greatest weightlifter in world is man etc. When you "transition" you are taking those advantages to your new role in life
agree, do think they can call themselves and identify as women though if they so wish though do not think they should be allowed to participate with biological women, due to these advantages despite the amount of testosterone they ingest, especially due to the formative stages of puberty in many cases.

However has to be approached with sensitivity, as I can imagine how it feels to be told they are not "woman-enough" to participate, a trans olympics would be an idea as previously suggested
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WanderStruck
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(Original post by squeakysquirrel)
But that is it - they are NOT women - they have had surgery in some cases and take vast quantities of drugs to dampen down their own bodies. Drugs in sport is an absolute no no.

Look if men want to chop their genitals off and wear women clothing whilst ingesting large quantities of pharmaceuticals then that is their choice. Men per se are naturally stronger and faster than women - hence fastest person in world is man. Greatest weightlifter in world is man etc. When you "transition" you are taking those advantages to your new role in life
So because they had surgery they aren't women?
Excuse my french but you sound extremely transphobic by calling trans women 'men that chopped their dicks off', but I very much hope you're only referring to that for the point of this thread.
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squeakysquirrel
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(Original post by WanderStruck)
So because they had surgery they aren't women?
Excuse my french but you sound extremely transphobic by calling trans women 'men that chopped their dicks off', but I very much hope you're only referring to that for the point of this thread.
I am not transphobic - I am stating what happens - if you are gender reassigned and you are going for surgery ---- you have your genitals removed and female parts fashioned . I have actually seen the surgery - I won't go into the graphic details but that is what happens.
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Archetypally
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(Original post by WanderStruck)
Yeah, but I don;t think you should separate based on whether or not someone has transitioned.
It should be about strength, or weight, speed, something along those lines and specific to the sport, not based on if a woman is taking hormones or if a guy is binding.
Let's accept that proposal as the ideal way forward, I'm not saying it is, but for the sake of argument.

It's irrelevant because the OP was clearly referring to the state of sports currently, posing a question on fairness based on how sports are currently structured. Because men and women are traditionally separated in sports due to the difference of typical strength/build, whatever you want to call it, we arrive back at the same issue, and I think it's safe to assume that most responses to the thread will be addressing the circumstances I'm describing, as opposed to considering an entirely new structure for the sporting industry.

You do raise an interesting point though, but there are other considerations with mixed sports and using the methods you are describing. A potentially large roadblock might be religious considerations, as some views prevent mixed-race competition. Even with this method, you still arrive at the male/female strength issue. With few exceptions, the top women can't compete with the top men of a given sport, meaning that women wouldn't really get an opportunity to attain the first-place spot with any regularity because of competition becoming that much harder. For example, let's say we divide groups by strength, it's likely that the split of men and women in the top division will be predominately men still, meaning women have a dramatically lessened chance of success.

There are also considerations for testing methods. Testing 'strength' and 'speed' can't really be done with any true consistency and could be easily manipulated for the gain of the person taking the test.
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username3890778
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men are just born physically stronger so no i think trans women should not compete with non trans women. not fair
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GreenCub
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The reasoning behind the separation of men's and women's sports has nothing to do with the gender the person identifies as. It's because it would be unfair to have XX and XY people compete together, and sport will not be fair unless such separations are kept in place.

It's possible that a workaround could be found to allow trans women to compete in high-level sport, perhaps by creating another category.
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Fujoshi
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(Original post by WanderStruck)
lmao exactly ^^
Trans women aren't 'trans women', they're women. Just because they had to transition into their gender doesn't make them any less women. I see many masculine-framed/bodied women - are they not allowed to compete in sport either?
The Olympics at least used to have limits on testosterone levels for female athletes so I guess not?
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Stiff Little Fingers
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(Original post by iamcurious)
The transwomen are dominating women's sports.
Citation needed. I mean, given trans women have been allowed to compete as their actual gender in the Olympics since 2004, you'd have expected more trans women Olympians than the 0 that there have been if they're really dominating women's sports.
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