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Brexit has not even happened yet and thousand of jobs have gone

Brexit will cause the London to lose its crown as the biggest financial centre in Europe, 100s of companies have already agreed to move jobs and operations to Amsterdam and 300s are in talks to move jobs. No new companies are investing in the U.K.only companies moving out.

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but we will have nice blue passports to put our visas to Europe in :h:
Done to death on here, I have nothing new to say that I have not said before.

Prolonging limbo period is causing us harm

Parliament is acting machiavellian

EU are trying to save their skin

The EU has never made us (or anyone else) economically secure or saved jobs since we joined that's a fallacious starting point..

I'm not saying no more, I'm boarded of ripping the fallacious arugement that the referendum is solely to blame for any negative unrelated statistics to bits.
(edited 4 years ago)
Record employment though so which is it?
Reply 4
Avatar for mgi
mgi
20
This is a tired old argument that solely blames a yet to happen Brexit for all the economic problems of the UK.
Original post by SteveyStack
Record employment though so which is it?

Sure if you count at least one hour per week as equal to full time/decent paid employment ...
It's pointless to attempt to explain the economic reality to people who are perfectly willing to see significant damage to the UK economy in order to see Brexit happen. Here's a poll of Tory Party members from June which illustrates exactly the obsessively deranged mindset of delivering 'Brexit at any cost':
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/06/18/most-conservative-members-would-see-party-destroye
(well, any cost except for having Jeremy Corbyn in government..)

- 61% willing to see significant damage to the UK economy
- 59% willing to see the breakup of the Union beween England/Scotland/Wales/NI
Original post by Paralove
Sure if you count at least one hour per week as equal to full time/decent paid employment ...

Well I suppose but the vast majority of those on 0 hours get a large number of hours most weeks, the issue being there are some where you get next to none.

Also, would you rather people don’t have jobs or that they work in these roles?
Original post by winterscoming
It's pointless to attempt to explain the economic reality to people who are perfectly willing to see significant damage to the UK economy in order to see Brexit happen. Here's a poll of Tory Party members from June which illustrates exactly the obsessively deranged mindset of delivering 'Brexit at any cost':
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/06/18/most-conservative-members-would-see-party-destroye
(well, any cost except for having Jeremy Corbyn in government..)

- 61% willing to see significant damage to the UK economy
- 59% willing to see the breakup of the Union beween England/Scotland/Wales/NI

I hope you vote Tory and remain because otherwise you are a hypocrite!
Original post by SteveyStack
I hope you vote Tory and remain because otherwise you are a hypocrite!

I vote lib dem and remain, but it's unsurprising to see that you had nothing constructive to say except to throw insults around. A very typical response from someone who has no argument or point whatsoever and can't come up with any kind of intelligent response so just responds with a personal attack instead.
Original post by winterscoming
I vote lib dem and remain, but it's unsurprising to see that you had nothing constructive to say except to throw insults around. A very typical response from someone who has no argument or point whatsoever and can't come up with any kind of intelligent response so just responds with a personal attack instead.

It’s not a personal attack though is it? My point is that we live in a two party system where only the Conservatives or Labour will get into power (if we are being realistic).

Your point is that Tory members want brexit despite it being likely to have an adverse affect on the economy. My point is that anyone who says this and yet also votes labour (which has had the exact same warnings about it) basically stumbles upon their own argument.

In which constituency did you vote Lib Dem as in some it’s effectively a vote against the Cons while others it is a vote against Labour?
And yet the U.K. has been put in charge of designing the new I.S.S 2, a new science park has been developed in Cambridge as the world leaders in climate change solutions. The U.K. is also the world leader in offshore wind farms, we have the largest wind turbines in the world
I’m not saying I support Brexit but we still have a lot going for us even if we do leave the EU, it’s not the end of the world
Original post by Burton Bridge
Done to death on here, I have nothing new to say that I have not said before.

Prolonging limbo period is causing us harm

Parliament is acting machiavellian

EU are trying to save their skin

The EU has never made us (or anyone else) economically secure or saved jobs since we joined that's a fallacious starting point..

I'm not saying no more, I'm boarded of ripping the fallacious arugement that the referendum is solely to blame for any negative unrelated statistics to bits.


:congrats:
Original post by SteveyStack
Well I suppose but the vast majority of those on 0 hours get a large number of hours most weeks, the issue being there are some where you get next to none.

Also, would you rather people don’t have jobs or that they work in these roles?


I'd rather people be paid a decent wage that they can actually live off, with secure and regular hours. Sure, zero hours might be useful to students - I had such a role from 16-19 - but actually, for many of those that I worked with who weren't students, they were having to work additional jobs to even attempt to guarantee that they would have enough to eat, pay rent/mortgage etc. Many people just cannot afford to have fluctuations in income like that.

And back to the point about supposed record employment - it's merely a manipulation of figures by the government. Increasing and record numbers of people are now living in poverty and relying on food banks - and a significant proportion of those are working families and people.
Original post by SteveyStack
It’s not a personal attack though is it? My point is that we live in a two party system where only the Conservatives or Labour will get into power (if we are being realistic).

Your point is that Tory members want brexit despite it being likely to have an adverse affect on the economy. My point is that anyone who says this and yet also votes labour (which has had the exact same warnings about it) basically stumbles upon their own argument.

In which constituency did you vote Lib Dem as in some it’s effectively a vote against the Cons while others it is a vote against Labour?

Ah ok, it wasn't clear what you were getting at. But I don't really see this as a Labour vs Tory issue because both of those parties are deeply split on the subject, and the old 'norms' of politics clearly don't apply in this situation, with a lot of Tory and Labour MPs willing to vote against their own party leader depending which way they feel about it.

If you're suggesting Corbyn's policies would be bad for the economy, then I wholeheartedly agree but I think that's another completely separate debate/topic because the chances of him winning an outright majority to be able to do that seems almost non-existent.

Needless to say the current government (assuming they follow their current path to No deal) will be far worse unless they can be forced by more moderate and sensible MPs into pursuing a sensible outcome which actually holds up to all the earlier promises and rhetoric from people like David Davis ('same benefits of single market membership') and Michael Gove ('The UK will be part of a European free trade zone' -- referring to EFTA/Norway). The first step to that is abandoning 'No deal' and then being honest about the electorate about the reality that the country is in right now. The current government is insistent on lying to the country about this, despite the fact that its own analysis leaked a couple of weeks ago describes in a lot of detail exactly how bad they're expecting things to be. a No Deal outcome is infinitely worse for the economy than even Corbyn's most absurd policies.

Neither of the main parties are showing any signs of economic literacy at all right now. The "party of business" (Tories) have spent 3 years throwing business under the bus in order to achieve their own aims. There's an insurmountable quantity of empyrical evidence which points towards "No Deal" being a long-term economic disaster that will put up some very costly and bureaucratic barriers to trade that will have a really profound direct impact on costs for hundreds of thousands of businesses who rely on imports (resources and materials) and exports (goods and services), leading to seriously damaging effects on peoples' jobs and lives. Again, the Government's own published analysis shows that the long-term effect of No Deal after 15 years is the economy being around 9% smaller:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/760484/28_November_EU_Exit_-_Long-term_economic_analysis__1_.pdf

However, I also disagree that it's a two-party system; no party currently has a majority in parliament nor looks likely to in the next election, which means that small parties wield a great deal of power over the larger ones - i.e. right now the DUP are propping up the Tories which puts them in a very powerful position. despite only having 10 MPs.

Similarly, if a Labour/Lib Dem/SNP/Independent coalition were to form after a No Confidence vote, it's very likely that the SNP would pulling a lot of Labour strings, and the Lib Dems along with Independent MPs would have a loud enough voice to prevent any of Corbyn's duff economic policies being enacted. A general election is highly unlikely to result in an overall Labour majority either as far as can tell.


As for the constituency I'm in, it's a very safe labour seat (MP is Hillary Benn) - Last election was 33,453 to Labour, 9,755 to Conservatives, 1,063 to Lib dems, so I don't really feel like voting Lib Dem is much help to the Tories nor hinderance to Labour. There's a very long-standing historic feeling of vitriolic distate towards the Tories across much of the North of England which goes back decades, the chances of the Tories (especially under Boris Johnson) making any gains up here isn't something I'm too worried about.

Unfortunately that means my vote doesn't count for much in a general election and I'd personally prefer a system of Proportional Representation system rather than FPTP since I abhor 'tactical' voting, although I would consider voting tactically if it helped to remove the tories and prevent No Deal because the choice between a Corbyn-led disaster and a No-deal disaster, I feel as if the country would have an easier time recovering from an incompetent Labour government, or that Labour itself might return to its senses and elect a better leader. There's not really any coming back from the UK crashing out with No deal.
Having read the Times article this is somewhat incorrect and I question if you read beyond the headline..

1) Approximately 20% of financial services jobs are moving to Europe but most firms are not, That is not sufficient to prevent London remaining the financial capital of Europe. That will continue to be the case so long as Germany and France both fight each other for financial services.

2) The article upon which this is based suggests further in the article that ‘some’ jobs may move to Europe, beyond two Japanese firms cited the article is rather vague on the prospect of firms headquartered leaving.

3) This is perhaps the most illiterate statement you made and confirms that you did no research before creating this thread. Not only did the UK recieve more foreign investment than Germany and France combined in 2018 but London remains the start-up capital of Europe.
Original post by Paralove
Sure if you count at least one hour per week as equal to full time/decent paid employment ...

Full time employment is at record highs.

...

To you both, please read the actual reports you are trying to quote from if you intend to argue economics.
(edited 4 years ago)
Doom mongers
Reply 18
Avatar for Quady
Quady
20
Oh, has my deal to sell my Greene King shares to that dude from Hong Kong fallen through?

Has brewdog stopped investing in Ellon?
Original post by winterscoming
It's pointless to attempt to explain the economic reality to people who are perfectly willing to see significant damage to the UK economy in order to see Brexit happen. Here's a poll of Tory Party members from June which illustrates exactly the obsessively deranged mindset of delivering 'Brexit at any cost':
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/06/18/most-conservative-members-would-see-party-destroye
(well, any cost except for having Jeremy Corbyn in government..)

- 61% willing to see significant damage to the UK economy
- 59% willing to see the breakup of the Union beween England/Scotland/Wales/NI


And it's pointless trying to explain reality to those who believe it the economic reality is deep recession, not least because the beliefs are based on fundamentally the same forecasts made 3 years ago (the ones which said there'd be half a million jobs lost and a 2 year recession simply by voting to leave)

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