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How do I switch from being part of the Liberals to the Libertarians?
Reply 281
Avatar for Connor27
Connor27
OP
19
Original post by h3rmit
How do I switch from being part of the Liberals to the Libertarians?

Hi. It’s great to see you’re willing to defect.

You’ll need to go to this page: https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/profile.php?do=editusergroups

Then tick the box for Liberal Democrat at the bottom, then click “leave usergroup”; then click the box for Libertarian Party and click join usergroup, after that I’ll be able to process your application.

Welcome to the Libertarian Party
Original post by h3rmit
How do I switch from being part of the Liberals to the Libertarians?
Hey there, sorry to see that you want to leave the Liberal Democrats: may I ask you why?

You can leave the Lib Dem usergroup and request to join the Libertarian one here:
https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/profile.php?do=editusergroups
Original post by 04MR17
Hey there, sorry to see that you want to leave the Liberal Democrats: may I ask you why?

The state is a band of organised robbers lacking even the effectiveness, relative to the private sector, in the pursuits it pursues with its stolen tax funds, so it can't even justify its theft. Also Hoppe is pretty good. Also dude psychedelics lmao (but without the prospect of heavy taxation and regulation by statists, which would kill the market and make a black one more viable.) And sort of a more primary reason is that the welfare state is inefficient and breeds dependence relative to solutions based on families, communities, and employment.
Original post by h3rmit
The state is a band of organised robbers lacking even the effectiveness, relative to the private sector, in the pursuits it pursues with its stolen tax funds, so it can't even justify its theft. Also Hoppe is pretty good. Also dude psychedelics lmao (but without the prospect of heavy taxation and regulation by statists, which would kill the market and make a black one more viable.) And sort of a more primary reason is that the welfare state is inefficient and breeds dependence relative to solutions based on families, communities, and employment.


That begs the question of why you joined the Liberal Party?
Original post by h3rmit
The state is a band of organised robbers lacking even the effectiveness, relative to the private sector, in the pursuits it pursues with its stolen tax funds, so it can't even justify its theft. Also Hoppe is pretty good. Also dude psychedelics lmao (but without the prospect of heavy taxation and regulation by statists, which would kill the market and make a black one more viable.) And sort of a more primary reason is that the welfare state is inefficient and breeds dependence relative to solutions based on families, communities, and employment.


A strong state is foundational to liberal political philosophy. All the way back to Hobbes.
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
A strong state is foundational to liberal political philosophy. All the way back to Hobbes.

Strong relative to the state we have today in the UK, not quite. A general principle of "free" at the point of delivery is state overgrowth relative to the ideas of the state having an obligation to the most needy, which you'll find espoused by thinkers like Locke.
And we have to talk relatively. In the context of a writer during absolute monarchy, is a state which takes care temporarily of the most needy and safeguards natural rights "strong"? I'd say it's either less authoritarian than a powerful monarch above everyone else who acts with relative impunity or just as authoritarian (or "strong") as such a monarchy, but with the authoritarianism redirected towards protecting inalienable rights rather than monarchs' whims.

Original post by Rakas21
That begs the question of why you joined the Liberal Party?

I've had a few changes in ideology.
Original post by h3rmit
Strong relative to the state we have today in the UK, not quite. A general principle of "free" at the point of delivery is state overgrowth relative to the ideas of the state having an obligation to the most needy, which you'll find espoused by thinkers like Locke.
And we have to talk relatively. In the context of a writer during absolute monarchy, is a state which takes care temporarily of the most needy and safeguards natural rights "strong"? I'd say it's either less authoritarian than a powerful monarch above everyone else who acts with relative impunity or just as authoritarian (or "strong") as such a monarchy, but with the authoritarianism redirected towards protecting inalienable rights rather than monarchs' whims.


I've had a few changes in ideology.


I'd argue the hobsian state is being weakened by the globalisation of capitalism with it's concentration of power towards transnational corporations, each potentially rivaling the state for control (like a fuedal lord), especially when it comes to access to information/data. At the core of Hobbes and liberalism is the idea that a consensus can be reached on the nature of reality via the scientific method. That is massivly under threat in this day and age.

You are also wrong about public services in relation to Hobbes. For hobbes the purpose of handing over the monopoly of force to the state is so it can protect us from death. Without the state life is brutish and short. The NHS is furfilling the purpose of a Hobsian state.
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
I'd argue the hobsian state is being weakened by the globalisation of capitalism with it's concentration of power towards transnational corporations, each potentially rivaling the state for control (like a fuedal lord), especially when it comes to access to information/data. At the core of Hobbes and liberalism is the idea that a consensus can be reached on the nature of reality via the scientific method. That is massivly under threat in this day and age.

You are also wrong about public services in relation to Hobbes. For hobbes the purpose of handing over the monopoly of force to the state is so it can protect us from death. Without the state life is brutish and short. The NHS is furfilling the purpose of a Hobsian state.

I'd argue the subsidising of transnational corporations through corporate welfare is a sign of an overgrown state grown far beyond the minimal requirements of a Hobbesian state, if I were to see TNCs as a threat. I'm not sure I do though. When it comes to info and data, can the data the state actually needs, that is to say is legally warranted in aiming to acquire, be acquired by legal compulsions (e.g subpoenas) for TNCs to hand over relevant evidence? I personally increasingly lean towards distrust of states so I've never looked at information and wished that the state could have easy access to it, so I've rarely thought of this situation from this perspective, but rather from the perspective of someone wishing to ensure governments have limited access to my personal information (and corporations I give my data to use it within legal boundaries).
I don't see how the idea that a consensus can be reached on the nature of reality via the scientific method is that under threat, except through oft-cited arguments we're in a "post-truth" age, with so much fake news, etc.I think the magnitude of such can be really overstated - people can disagree over facts temporarily, but in the long run I think conclusively evidenced facts are likely to win out. But I don't have much of an opinion there.


The NHS is going far beyond what is required for a Hobbesian state. Hobbes seemed to be about handing over the monopoly of force to the state so it could protect us from exerting force and violence over other - in a sense, the state must exist to protect us from ourselves. A socialised healthcare system is not the same as the minimal government (relative to today's standards) required to enforce rightsand prevent non-state violence.
Original post by h3rmit
I


The NHS is going far beyond what is required for a Hobbesian state.


It is doing exactly what the hobbesian state sets out to do. Poeple hand over the capicitiy to do violence in order so they can live.
Name: vanessastock
Preferred party: Tory
Social stance: Centre right
Economic: Right
Anything else: Brexiteer & Thatcherite!
Reply 291
Avatar for Connor27
Connor27
OP
19
Original post by vanessastock
Name: vanessastock
Preferred party: Tory
Social stance: Centre right
Economic: Right
Anything else: Brexiteer & Thatcherite!

Would you perhaps consider the Libertarian Party instead? We are the only MHoC party to commit to a no deal brexit in our manifesto, the Tories did not. Also we are firmly more economically right wing than the Tories, who have many wet members economically.
Name: noahhh

Preferred Party: Conservatives (I think? Maybe Libertarian?).

Social Stance: Not sure. Liberal on some issues (same-sex marriage, legalizing weed), Conservative on others (abortion). I support freedom of speech and want the government to stay out of most things.

Economic Stance: Centre/Moderate Right.

Anything Else: Brexiteer.
Original post by noahhh
Name: noahhh

Preferred Party: Conservatives (I think? Maybe Libertarian?).

Social Stance: Not sure. Liberal on some issues (same-sex marriage, legalizing weed), Conservative on others (abortion). I support freedom of speech and want the government to stay out of most things.

Economic Stance: Centre/Moderate Right.

Anything Else: Brexiteer.

I'll pass you over to Conservative leader @ns_2 who should be able to help. :smile:

Though I feel compelled to point out to you that there are some within the Conservatives who believe members of the LGBT community are mentally ill. :redface: (That is not the position of the party however.)
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by noahhh
Name: noahhh

Preferred Party: Conservatives (I think? Maybe Libertarian?).

Social Stance: Not sure. Liberal on some issues (same-sex marriage, legalizing weed), Conservative on others (abortion). I support freedom of speech and want the government to stay out of most things.

Economic Stance: Centre/Moderate Right.

Anything Else: Brexiteer.

Welcome fo MHOC, I’m the speaker Andrew97, if you have any questions about how this place is run etc then I’m your man.
Original post by 04MR17
I'll pass you over to Conservative leader @ns_2 who should be able to help. :smile:

Though I feel compelled to point out to you that there are some within the Conservatives who believe members of the LGBT community are mentally ill. :redface: (That is not the position of the party however.)

FYI this is not out recruitment thread anymore. This one is (https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5622610)

please could somebody shut this one down perhaps so we minimise confusion?
Original post by Andrew97
FYI this is not out recruitment thread anymore. This one is (https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5622610)

please could somebody shut this one down perhaps so we minimise confusion?
It always ran in tandem to the other one the OP is just very outdated, I don't know why we should limit exposure.
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by 04MR17
It always ran in tandem to the other one the OP is just very outdated, I don't know why we should limit exposure.

Fair enough I suppose. My thinking was it makes things easier to have recruitment in one thread.
Original post by 04MR17
I'll pass you over to Conservative leader @ns_2 who should be able to help. :smile:

Though I feel compelled to point out to you that there are some within the Conservatives who believe members of the LGBT community are mentally ill. :redface: (That is not the position of the party however.)

Cheers. And yeah, I know - but there are always going to be people with whom I disagree, so it doesn't matter to me.

Original post by Andrew97
Welcome fo MHOC, I’m the speaker Andrew97, if you have any questions about how this place is run etc then I’m your man.

FYI this is not out recruitment thread anymore. This one is (https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5622610)

please could somebody shut this one down perhaps so we minimise confusion?

Thanks, I have a couple questions so will PM you at some point. Should I post on the other recruitment thread?
Original post by noahhh
Cheers. And yeah, I know - but there are always going to be people with whom I disagree, so it doesn't matter to me.


Thanks, I have a couple questions so will PM you at some point. Should I post on the other recruitment thread?

Since you are on this one now, just continue to post here buddy. All will be fine. 😊
Original post by Andrew97
Since you are on this one now, just continue to post here buddy. All will be fine. 😊

Okay, thanks :smile:

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