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'Fat' Comments Should Be Illegal

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Reply 80
Original post by cant_think_of_name
Read this article, including statistics such as:

Over one-half of teenage girls and nearly one-third of teenage boys use unhealthy weight control behaviors such as skipping meals, fasting, smoking cigarettes, vomiting, and taking laxatives (Neumark-Sztainer, 2005).

Even among clearly non-overweight girls, over 1/3 report dieting (Wertheim et al., 2009).

Of American, elementary school girls who read magazines, 69% say that the pictures influence their concept of the ideal body shape. 47% say the pictures make them want to lose weight (Martin, 2010). (elementary school being those from ages 5-10)



Quite clearly these aren't "unusual circumstances" any more. They're becoming more and more prevalent.

The whole premise of that study is farcical. Firstly, we are talking about teenagers and young children, is it really a surprise when they respond to things in an immature way. Those signs aren't necessarily signals of eating disorders they are just kids regurgitating the behaviour of others. There is a real difference between a five year old saying he/she needs to lose weight because they saw it on tv and someone with an eating disorder who genuinely feels the need to change their body via extreme behaviour. In a society where a significant proportion of people are overweight it is inevitable that children are going to come into contact with the idea of weight lose, and being children they will emulate it in a twisted fashion as children do with all adult behaviour. The issue isn't the presence of people criticising fat people but the fact that no one is telling them it doesn't apply to them.

Secondly missing meals isn't actually an unhealthy behaviour. If you genuinely need to lose weight, skipping a meal is perfectly fine as long as it is done in combination with the right behaviour.

I'm not sure I see the issue with people aspiring to have the body shape shown in magazines as long as the pictures are of people at a healthy weight. If the problem is that they are damaging their bodies to do it then the solution is just better education. If the issue is that they are too young then I question why 5-10 year olds are being given magazines of this kind and aren't being told by their parents that this sort of thing doesn't apply to them.


All this study really illustrates is that children don't know the correct techniques for maintaining a healthy physique and are subsequently getting it wrong. There is nothing wrong with being health conscious even at a young age, this just needs to be paired with an understanding of what to do and what to avoid. Fat comments are only an issue when we criticise without providing the right tools to improve.



At no point do I think we should "tell people to eat what they want". I am extremely in favour of healthy lifestyles, improved education on healthcare. Your last two sentences are completely correct - we do need these things. I just think that the media telling people that they are fat is not good - it's not their call, and it's often not their area of expertise. Telling people that they need to lose weight is something that needs to be done sensitively and privately by a medical expert.


Except that people should be free to have opinions on things, when someone does something they need to accept people will have a variety of views, both positive and negative. The problem here isn't people being unpleasant to each other, the issue is that people seem to think they have the right to do whatever they like and still have everyone's support.
Reply 81
Original post by Aoide
Except that people should be free to have opinions on things, when someone does something they need to accept people will have a variety of views, both positive and negative. The problem here isn't people being unpleasant to each other, the issue is that people seem to think they have the right to do whatever they like and still have everyone's support.


Exactly. Why should a PE teacher be expected to acknowledge some obese child's choice to be overweight and uncooperative in PE lessons? The two concepts of self-acceptance and healthy living reach a point where they are no longer compatible.
Reply 82
Freedom of speech you communist freaks.
Reply 83
Original post by pandabird
The media does not call Jennifer Lawrence fat the media loves her and she can't do any wrong in their eyes. She's kicking up a fuss over nothing.

Why should we show tolerance for fat people? It's a massive, expensive epidemic that's costing us millions a year. No we should not show toleration for it.

And the cigarette analogy is so stupid. The reason smoking is regulated in film is because we don't want to increase cigarette use and addiction. We don't want to show tolerance for it. Banning fat comments does the absolute reverse to something as equally as damaging as cigarettes, it shows tolerance for obesity.

I don't understand, I find it so incomprehensible that we show such a judgemental intolerance and disdain for people with drug and alcohol addiction, when we're told to show complete acceptance for fat people. Look at how Nigella is being treated by society for her cocaine addiction. Yet people like Adele are adored for their addiction to food.

When will the government crack down on obesity? Not even obesity, they should crack down on being overweight, crack down on the overconsumption of food in general.
It is not normal for humans to be overweight, it is costly and signifies everything wrong with the western world- greed and lack of control.


did i just wake up in a parallel universe where your posts are rational?
Reply 84
also, as someone who is famous for hunger games she doesn't seem to be lacking access to food .:dance:
Original post by Ruthless Dutchman
The media loves pointing out features in people that make them less-than-'perfect'. be it their weight (both over and underweight), clothing, the food they eat and any other aspect of someone's life, even more so when they're famous.

Maybe not illegal to call someone fat, but the media really shouldn't concern themselves with trivial matters, but then again that's the only way they think they can make money.

'Fat' is a descriptive word, it's ambiguous as to what level makes someone 'fat', but due to the ambiguity and the misuse of the word that's where the problem is.

[[Fat is also a noun, but in the context here it's a verb]]


What?
Reply 86
Stupid PC brigade who want to ban use of factual terms like fat and gay


To me that is near enough a perfect body. I don't see how anyone could call her fat. The only type of people who could are those who are just horrible deep down and can't find a fault with her so go for the easy and often damaging option they know will hurt due to the insecurities many women have because of the society we live in.

If anything she is slightly too skinny for my liking but she's healthy and gorgeous nonetheless.
Original post by Kiss
First of all that wouldn't work, and second of all how is it wrong for the people with those bodies to put it out there? If we're going all 'self-acceptance' then you need to accept people with socially stereotypical 'hot' bodies shouldn't be shoved aside simply because some people are jealous.


I disagree that it wouldn't work. People's behaviour does change and it can change faster given the right push. The problem with celebrating 'hot' bodies is that it reduces us to our physicality and is hugely demoralising for those who cannot live up to the ideal. Particularly when that ideal is achieved through air-brushing, lighting, camera angles, and a punishing diet and beauty regime. The concept of 'hot' isn't set in stone but is rather up for grabs and it would be good if the messages implicit in a lot of the media changed to a more realistic and healthy conception of appearance (that also found room to celebrate things not as trivial as mere looks).


Original post by Kiss

What exactly is 'hateful' about offering ways to lose weight and tips on how to exercise?


I suppose because there isn't any great secret to how to lose weight. To constantly repeat the same banal message just looks like carping.
Reply 89
Original post by Lotus_Eater
I disagree that it wouldn't work. People's behaviour does change and it can change faster given the right push. The problem with celebrating 'hot' bodies is that it reduces us to our physicality and is hugely demoralising for those who cannot live up to the ideal. Particularly when that ideal is achieved through air-brushing, lighting, camera angles, and a punishing diet and beauty regime. The concept of 'hot' isn't set in stone but is rather up for grabs and it would be good if the messages implicit in a lot of the media changed to a more realistic and healthy conception of appearance (that also found room to celebrate things not as trivial as mere looks).


You could make that same argument about any aspect of someone. If we value intelligence, less intelligent people might be demoralised and not bother to try; if we value good will and charity, people will make a competition out of who can raise the most; if we value personality, people will make any attempt to change theirs if they feel it doesn't conform to some situational/societal norm. All of those things can lead to an 'ideal' life as much as staying healthy will. Staying healthy shouldn't be excluded from something that is valued within society. To quote South Park's Eric Cartman on this matter:

"I'm not fat. I have a different life choice!"

If people have a life choice to be fat then that's their choice; it shouldn't, however, give them the right to tell others that their lifestyle is better than anyone else's or should be promoted as healthy. Imagine if our society was overpopulated with obesity: how many problems do you think that would cause?
Reply 90
Jennifer Lawrence's comments demonstrate clearly that no matter how perfect you look, people will always criticise you, so this should encourage people in not giving a toss what other people think in my opinion.

When they are criticised, people should think 'Well they criticise Jennifer Lawrence and look how nice she looks, so perhaps they're wrong in my case too' - this is the best way to think about it.
Original post by Kiss
You could make that same argument about any aspect of someone. If we value intelligence, less intelligent people might be demoralised and not bother to try; if we value good will and charity, people will make a competition out of who can raise the most; if we value personality, people will make any attempt to change theirs if they feel it doesn't conform to some situational/societal norm. All of those things can lead to an 'ideal' life as much as staying healthy will. Staying healthy shouldn't be excluded from something that is valued within society. To quote South Park's Eric Cartman on this matter:

"I'm not fat. I have a different life choice!"

If people have a life choice to be fat then that's their choice; it shouldn't, however, give them the right to tell others that their lifestyle is better than anyone else's or should be promoted as healthy. Imagine if our society was overpopulated with obesity: how many problems do you think that would cause?


I wouldn't deny obesity is a problem. What I deny is that the promotion of fascistic body-image ideals is doing any good in solving that problem. In fact it does a vast amount of harm and is actually counter-productive. Many people eat because they are unhappy. Breaking an addiction to food is hard enough at the best of times but by promoting standards that many perceive as utterly unattainable is less likely to lead to optimism and simply entrench unhappiness.

I don't think 'fat' comments should be banned, but they are intensely unkind and people who want to solve problems needs to take positive and thoughtful action. My suggestion that A-Listers put their money where their mouths are and avoid giving interviews to those horrible publications that spitefully rejoice when long-lens photographers capture women who have failed to live up to their beauty ideals is, I think, a good suggestion that might help.

Maybe the same arguments could be made about intelligence but for reasons I struggle to articulate, it seems different to me.
Original post by locrian37
I think fatties should be fed to Africa.


This is why the neg was introduced in the first place, and a good reason to bring it back :rolleyes:
It's frustrating how many people would rather rant about freedom of speech instead of actually thinking about the reasoning behind her argument. Obviously we can't ban people from calling others 'fat' - or similar - but the point that Lawrence et al are getting at is the fact that the culture of labeling people who are completely normal as fat is resulting in the culture of obsessive weight-loss and impossible body-standards that is ruining the health of millions of young girls (and boys).
An awful suggestion. Equally awful and ridiculous are the moralising comments on here. The majority of people who are of normal weight do not exercise any control when it comes to eating. They eat until they're full and they maintain a healthy weight. That's it. People on here make it out as though normal weight individuals constantly struggle with the urge to overeat and emerge victorious every day whilst obese individuals just give in to vice.

There's no urge for most people to overeat. In order for someone to become seriously obese, he/she must consume thousand+ excess calories a day. If you're not predisposed to overeat, you can't do it. It's like calling people who aren't paedophiles "virtuous" because they do not molest children. Ofc they don't, they don't have that urge, they do not suppress it or struggle with it.

Wtf...
Reply 95
Original post by Eloades11
You're saying that you can't be overweight and healthy? There are probably obese people out there which are more healthy than normal weight people.

Being overweight has been linked to a reduction in risk for various chronic diseases. Although I'm not saying being overweight is necessarily a good thing, but it may be beneficial in some aspects of modern society. There's a similar situation with alcohol, having too much is considered dangerous and linked with increased mortality, but having small amount of alcohol is shown to be beneficial.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/human-biology/obesity-paradox.htm




So being overweight is solely dependent on food consumption per individual, and has absolutely nothing to do with amount of exercise, energy expenditure or genetics? If being fat isn't a favourable trait, it would've died out. You should do more reading before commenting on the topic.


Like most people, I disagree that calling someone 'fat' should be illegal, and that this is just the usual argument that the media should be more responsible. However, a 'responsible' media achieved via legislation (which likely endorses the views of the government) is a significant step towards fascism. And also, it's ridiculous to ban specific words (with no historical significance as there is for the 'n' word (which I actually don't think should be banned anyway, because I feel racism depends a lot on context - hence why it's considered acceptable for black people to use it - and less on specific words. Although perhaps it's convenient to have certain words that are definitely discriminatory, because then people that are aiming to hurt will use those and be punished).

Regardless, I do have to address your bastardisation of statistics and of evolutionary theory:

Presumably you have read your source, and therefore realise that there are a number of reasons why obese patients with heart disease may live longer than patients with heart disease who are (by now) underweight. For the benefit of others: heart disease is a wasting illness, so people get thinner as the disease progresses; thin people who develop heart disease are likely to do so for different reasons to those who develop it from atherosclerosis (fatty arteries), and these causes may lead to poorer prognosis.
There are many more explanations, but it's your source and you should have qualified it yourself. The major point is that you are still more likely (as a currently healthy individual) to develop and die from heart disease etc. if you are overweight.

With regards to evolution: No. Unless a trait is so unfavourable that it significantly reduces your ability to procreate, it does not die out. Having moles on your skin is not favourable, but this trait has not died out (as a ridiculous example).
Unless being fat is at least significantly due to genetics, your comment doesn't make any sense anyway. Obesity is (almost exclusively) due to environmental and social factors; an imbalance between energy in and energy out (with the caveat that you also need a somewhat balanced diet). Natural selection is incapable of selecting against acquired (non-inherited) traits, and so your reasoning is flawed.
One final point: even if something was evolutionarily favourable, this does not make it a trait we might desire people to have in our society/family.
Reply 96
Original post by Kiss
You could make that same argument about any aspect of someone. If we value intelligence, less intelligent people might be demoralised and not bother to try; if we value good will and charity, people will make a competition out of who can raise the most; if we value personality, people will make any attempt to change theirs if they feel it doesn't conform to some situational/societal norm. All of those things can lead to an 'ideal' life as much as staying healthy will. Staying healthy shouldn't be excluded from something that is valued within society. To quote South Park's Eric Cartman on this matter:

"I'm not fat. I have a different life choice!"

If people have a life choice to be fat then that's their choice; it shouldn't, however, give them the right to tell others that their lifestyle is better than anyone else's or should be promoted as healthy. Imagine if our society was overpopulated with obesity: how many problems do you think that would cause?


Repped, because I think your first point is a really good one (and the rest aren't bad either :tongue: ).

But, I think most people would argue that we SHOULD value being healthy; the point is that the media frequently values being underweight, which isn't healthy.
Original post by Oliver Queen


To me that is near enough a perfect body. I don't see how anyone could call her fat. The only type of people who could are those who are just horrible deep down and can't find a fault with her so go for the easy and often damaging option they know will hurt due to the insecurities many women have because of the society we live in.

If anything she is slightly too skinny for my liking but she's healthy and gorgeous nonetheless.


She has like no boobs with bloodhound eyes, no where near perfect.

I believe in moderate fat shaming comments as a former fatty tbh, that's the only way I put down the cake. I think I would've ate myself to oblivion.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by 2ndClass
She has like no boobs with bloodhound eyes, no where near perfect.

I believe in moderate fat shaming comments as a former fatty tbh, that's the only way I put down the cake. I think I would've ate myself to oblivion.


What does moderate fat shaming entail?
Original post by Viva Emptiness
What does moderate fat shaming entail?


I don't know tbh, that's why I prefixed it with moderate. I think your close friends and family should definitely keep you "aware" that you need to lose weight and fat people, at least those who want to lose weight like I did, shouldn't be too sensitive about it. I know I was, but in hindsight I wish they were just totally blunt with me. I can't even look at myself at my old pictures with all my slim friends :yucky:

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