Parliament must reject the latest Boris 'deal' proposal and call for a 2nd referendum

Ah yes the independent, it's always been anything but.
Please forgive me if I choose to draw upon what I have heard from friends that voted to remain than that piece of **** rag

Nothing is as good for trade as being in the EU Single Market. That's true globally, which is why everyone who is anyone is desperate to sign a deep trade deal with the EU. The UK is the only country in the world currently trying to distance itself from EU trade and make it actively harder to trade with the EU. Some might call that 'bananas'.

Yawn, aren't you bored of repeating this tired old diatribe, what you are really trying to insinuate is that the people were too stupid to know what they were voting

The polls quoted are from multiple pollsters and nothing to do with the Indie. Apart from being completely wrong, your point was well argued.

I think it fair to say that this is exactly the case. Not only were the people fed false and misleading information from all sides, but the EUs influence both positive and negative is so intertwined with our own society that it is more or less impossible to unpick the full picture.

For example, I only learned yesterday about UK fish. Take back control of our fishing grounds I hear you shout? Except that we import most of the fish we eat (cod and haddock) and export most of the fish we catch to where? That's right. Europe. Except that post Brexit that fish will incur 20% import duty and additional red tape to satisfy EU authenticity regulations. Now are you really telling me that red blooded Brexit voters baying to take back control were aware of this slight oversight? And this is just one tiny aspect of a very complex relationship with a union that touches every aspect of our lives.

Honestly, that's the best you can come up with? Why do we need to import so much cod and haddock, it couldn't possibly be because most of our fishing waters have been taken from us surely?

Yes brexit and Europe has become like a religion, unfortunately.

Are you being intentionally dishonest there or?

The problem is that another referendum may deliver a clear and unambigiuous answer.. but it will then be enforced by a government that doesn't want to do it!

Think a step ahead. We have a referendum before an election. Remain wins the referendum, but if current polling maintains brexit-parties win the election. Farage and Johnson are in a coalition government with a majority. This is almost guaranteed if the referendum happens before the election, because if remain were to win, the fury and anger of brexit voters would sweep farage+Johnson through the gate of an election.

You then end up with the exact reason why referendums don't fit in our political system: You have a party in charge of implementing a decision that they don't support. Do you think a Tory/Brexit coalition are just going to revoke article 50 and leave it at that? Probably, but that's pretty much what leavers thought after the last referendum, they thought we would be out, deal or no deal.. obviously a goverment would have to respect it and just take us out. They were as deluded as remain voters are currently if they believe that having brexiteers incharge of remaining, will be any simpler than having remainers in charge of leaving.

The brexiteers will squirm and wriggle around trying to find some way out. They will say that the referendum isn't binding.. or maybe agree to remain but on the condition another referendum is held in 5 years.. or maybe agree to remain but only if the EU agrees to re-negotiate our membership (impossible as that would be) etc. Or maybe they would just delay and demand a third referendum, best 2 out of 3 etc.

The point is, if you have a referendum before an election you could well end up in exactly the mess we have been in.. a goverment trying to get out of implimenting a decision it never wanted in the first place.

Instead, we can just have a clear brexit-election, where the winning coalition has a majority in the house, a clear mandate from the public, and the will and motivation to carry it out.
The only thing stopping this is that Labour refuse to take a side. If they just come out for remain, we can have a clear election: Remain coalition (SNP, Libs, Green, Plyd, Labour), Leave coalition (UKIP, Con, Brexit) - which ever can form a majority can and will implement their will.

I think it fair to say that this is exactly the case. Not only were the people fed false and misleading information from all sides, but the EUs influence both positive and negative is so intertwined with our own society that it is more or less impossible to unpick the full picture.

For example, I only learned yesterday about UK fish. Take back control of our fishing grounds I hear you shout? Except that we import most of the fish we eat (cod and haddock) and export most of the fish we catch to where? That's right. Europe. Except that post Brexit that fish will incur 20% import duty and additional red tape to satisfy EU authenticity regulations. Now are you really telling me that red blooded Brexit voters baying to take back control were aware of this slight oversight? And this is just one tiny aspect of a very complex relationship with a union that touches every aspect of our lives.

On the fishing point only 40% of fish caught in UK waters is brought to British ports thanks to the CFP. With more fish brought to port, prices will fall and more fish will be consumed. While No Deal could impact fishing exports, with more of that 60% offish not brought to British ports able to be exported by us, we may negate some of the loss.


Not t9 mention, we may still get a deal.

The deal that Boris and the Irish PM, Leo Varadkar, are now working on clearly indicates that the UK will leave both the Single Market and the Customs Union, leaving only Northern Ireland suspended temporarily in some sort of 'in/out' limbo acceptable to the DUP and Dublin.

Yet this deal, if passed, will wreck the UK economy.

Car manufacturers will leave in droves - only today, Nissan have warned in the strongest terms that the tariffs of 10% to be imposed by the EU on UK-made vehicles will make being in the UK unviable. This is almost a million jobs.

Food supplies and numerous other industries will be disrupted, as their current production models rely on smooth border flows, that will no longer exist cross-channel.

There will be massive extra burdens of bureaucracy on UK exporters, causing many to withdraw from exporting and adding to our balance of payments deficit.

The pound will plunge to new lows, causing inflation on both food and non-food items. The era of things like cheap imported computers, phones and other electronics will have ended.

The UK will not be able to call on large numbers of European workers who sustain the ordinary work of our economy and make the UK viable, doing all the many jobs that British people don't want to do.

It will be terrible.

This is OUR government planning to do this to OUR country.

Absolutely incredible and purely because a small, highly ideological, extremist faction have taken control of the Tory Party and are being served by their supine liar-in-chief with what they want to hear.

It will be a patriotic act for all existing MPs to vote this down.

We shall then see if Boris Johnson and the Tory extremist ERG are actual democrats, or not.

Are you suggesting this didn't happen! Okay they were signed over but in another dishonest way.

Everyone seems to have forgotten that any "deal" agreed is only a short term affair to tie us over until something more permanent can be agreed. Or am I wrong and this deal will be our long term deal forever?

There was a rather good article in the NS last week about this actually

There are your mates. And then there's the electorate.

Latest polls show:

More than 2-1, voters want a second referendum.

Far more Leave voters would now vote remain. The likely result would be 53:47 to Remain.

There are 2m older Leave voters who have died since the last time and over 800,000 young voters who are heavily pro-Remain.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-myths-busting-polling-second-referendum-leave-remain-a9149491.html

I think it fair to say that this is exactly the case. Not only were the people fed false and misleading information from all sides, but the EUs influence both positive and negative is so intertwined with our own society that it is more or less impossible to unpick the full picture.

For example, I only learned yesterday about UK fish. Take back control of our fishing grounds I hear you shout? Except that we import most of the fish we eat (cod and haddock) and export most of the fish we catch to where? That's right. Europe. Except that post Brexit that fish will incur 20% import duty and additional red tape to satisfy EU authenticity regulations. Now are you really telling me that red blooded Brexit voters baying to take back control were aware of this slight oversight? And this is just one tiny aspect of a very complex relationship with a union that touches every aspect of our lives.

I voted out, there will be riots if we don't get out, I support brexit

On the fishing point only 40% of fish caught in UK waters is brought to British ports thanks to the CFP. With more fish brought to port, prices will fall and more fish will be consumed. While No Deal could impact fishing exports, with more of that 60% offish not brought to British ports able to be exported by us, we may negate some of the loss.


Not t9 mention, we may still get a deal.