The Student Room Group
Uni students - Complete our survey >>
Uni students - Complete our survey >>
Uni students - Complete our survey >>

Britains motorways/transport are even behind the '3rd world' now.

Like for example the M4 linking central London with Heathrow. How can it be acceptable to still have two lanes, a bus lane and a 40 mph limit in 2019? While the likes of Bangkok and Dubai have five lanes in each direction, smooth as silk and a world class sky rail/subway system.
(edited 4 years ago)
Reply 1
Avatar for Napp
Napp
22
Welcome to the world of British under investment combined with shoddy British quality
I always have the same reaction when I go back from China to the UK. Infrastructure and transport feels years behind in the UK.

As for why.. its a mix of reasons:

1. Pre-existing vs new built solutions:

If you have no road.. and you need a road, you must build a new road. If your going to build a new road, why not make it as modern as possible? But in the UK its more like: We have an 'ok' road.. do we really need to spend the money to upgrade it? Its already fine.. its just not great.

2. Ineffective politics:

Its a lot easier to get large building and infrastructure projects done without pesky democracy getting in the way. Obviously I am a huge fan of democracy as the best overal system for a nation, but it isn't perfect in every way, and one thing it struggles with is efficiency of projects. In china, if the goverment wants to build a new highspeed line. Its getting done, and now. In the UK? its going to have to be campaigned on, then investigated, with comittees involved, and then the opposition will likely uppose it, and then if it has a build time of more than 5 years, it could be completed under two different goverments, multiple different ministers in charge etc.

3. Cost:

Land is expensive in the UK, and when you look at things like the HS plans, its a huge factor in their costs. In Dubia or China or Vietnam etc? Land tends to be reasonably cheap except in the rich cities, and with the goverment having more power, its easier to forcably move people. In the UK, the goverment is meant to pay a 'fair' price for your land... in China, bye bye land, its gone now, and the goverment will give you a new flat somewhere else that may or may not be of equal value. (also labour costs and material costs are very different in the UK compared to countries like China)

4. Environment:

I don't think this one needs explaining.. a lot of goverments in developing countries are not going to give two ****s about what endagered squirel or newt their trainline goes through..

5. Lack of percieved potential progress.

This one is a societal one for me.. in developing countries the idea is that these new projects will radically improve peoples lives. People support them because their lives are of a much lower economic standard than peoples in the UK (with exceptions), and there is genuine hope that new big projects will bring prosperity. Compare that to the UK, and most peoples lives are already pretty good... the percieved progress from a new project or a better road? Its small.. maybe it helps you out a little bit.. but it doesn't feel as radically important or like its going to give as big an improvement as it would in a developing country.. so people are generally less enthuisastic.
I'd be interested in knowing how rail prices have increased hundreds of percent. I was looking to travel from London Euston to Manchester Piccadilly and it was over 100 pounds! Crazy. Not even peak time.


5 lane highways are nice in theory but living near a city with one that goes right through the middle, it's a pain in the ass to drive on one. Maybe Dubai has less traffic. :dontknow:
Original post by NomadicBrit
Like for example the M4 linking central London with Heathrow. How can it be acceptable to still have two lanes, a bus lane and a 40 mph limit in 2019? While the likes of Bangkok and Dubai have five lanes in each direction, smooth as silk and a world class sky rail/subway system.


Two things really. In 200 years when Dubai and Bangkok are facing the same problems as London you can compare like with like. To widen the M4 you would no doubt need to buy several billion pounds worth of land to create a road that wouldn't solve anything.

Since in modern times were Bangkok and Dubai 3rd world cities?
Original post by ByEeek
Two things really. In 200 years when Dubai and Bangkok are facing the same problems as London you can compare like with like. To widen the M4 you would no doubt need to buy several billion pounds worth of land to create a road that wouldn't solve anything.

Since in modern times were Bangkok and Dubai 3rd world cities?

Bangkok has a lot of crime human rights problem and extreme poverty etc and Dubai was tiny fishing village with no basic services to about 50 year ago when they found oil. Dubai still has poor human rights/religious freedom and poor working condition for workers from South Asian who build the roads so they going to build fast because don't care the safety well being of the workers.
Original post by looloo2134
Bangkok has a lot of crime human rights problem and extreme poverty etc and Dubai was tiny fishing village with no basic services to about 50 year ago when they found oil. Dubai still has poor human rights/religious freedom and poor working condition for workers from South Asian who build the roads so they going to build fast because don't care the safety well being of the workers.

And I learned this morning that 16 year olds are recruiting younger students to act as money mules to launder money. And 4 people were stabbed in the centre of Manchester yesterday. And the gap between rich and poor is as big here as anywhere. So what is your point?
You want London's transport to be more like Bangkok's? Really?

5 lane motorways are a bit of a nightmare really if you've got people coming on and off a lot, and don't make sense unless the roads on and off of it can cope with that volume of traffic anyway. Better public transport would make more sense, including things like ride sharing.
Original post by NomadicBrit
Like for example the M4 linking central London with Heathrow. How can it be acceptable to still have two lanes, a bus lane and a 40 mph limit in 2019? While the likes of Bangkok and Dubai have five lanes in each direction, smooth as silk and a world class sky rail/subway system.

The largest Canadian and U.S. cities now have the same problems. For instance, fifty years ago when Toronto expanded and built such infrastructure, everything looked and felt light years ahead of the U.K.'s decaying Victorian infrastructure built 100 years earlier. Indeed the major roads out of London and other cities were first laid down by the Romans nearly 2000 years ago.

Now Toronto has the same issues of having to continually repair worn out roads with a transit system unable to cope with the volumes of commuters it was never designed to accommodate.

Much of a highly developed countries infrastructure budget is consumed by maintenance and repairs to keep the existing system working. Whereas in an underdeveloped country with little constraints such as having to worry about fair compensation or even health and safety (things we not only expect but demand), the vast majority of their budget goes on new build.

Then there is the advantage of learning from the mistakes (hindsight is a wonderful thing) of the older trailblazers. Much like it takes a genius to develop the answers everyone else found impossible (take Brunnel for instance) when a few decades later everyone uses and takes for granted.
I have told people off for calling our transport system 3rd World, as it insults developing countries.

It is the legacy of Dr Beeching, the first civil servant to be appointed on a higher pay than the Prime Minister, by a transport secretary whose family owned part of a construction company.
Original post by ByEeek
And I learned this morning that 16 year olds are recruiting younger students to act as money mules to launder money. And 4 people were stabbed in the centre of Manchester yesterday. And the gap between rich and poor is as big here as anywhere. So what is your point?

The point is Britain will not stamp over human right and build roads where people live unlike those wonderful places. Have you need to or seen Bangkok it is dirty with children and hold families sleeping on the roads. But of course life is just a bad for poor people in Britain I was raised by a disabled single father on and off benefits on a council estates so I know what being poor in Britain is.

I also know what it like to be a working class female being one myself and I would never dream of stealing, dealing drugs, money laundering etc because I'm not greedy or selfish and have morals.
Original post by looloo2134
The point is Britain will not stamp over human right and build roads where people live unlike those wonderful places. Have you need to or seen Bangkok it is dirty with children and hold families sleeping on the roads. But of course life is just a bad for poor people in Britain I was raised by a disabled single father on and off benefits on a council estates so I know what being poor in Britain is.

I also know what it like to be a working class female being one myself and I would never dream of stealing, dealing drugs, money laundering etc because I'm not greedy or selfish and have morals.

So what are you saying? That if it is decided that a road should be built for the greater good through your home, you should forfeit your house without compensation and be forced to live on the street?
Original post by ByEeek
So what are you saying? That if it is decided that a road should be built for the greater good through your home, you should forfeit your house without compensation and be forced to live on the street?

I saying that what happen in those cities they just build. Do you enjoy putting words in other people mouth? It a good think we have compensation.
Same old story: got there first but now its s*** lol
Original post by looloo2134
I saying that what happen in those cities they just build. Do you enjoy putting words in other people mouth? It a good think we have compensation.


That's fine. So it sounds like you wouldn't object you having your house knocked down in the name of progress then?

After all, if you are going to just do something, you can't let land ownership, property rights or the rule of law stand in your way. And if anyone objects, just arrest and shoot them. That's how civilised cities like Dubai and Bangkok work isn't it?
Original post by ByEeek
That's fine. So it sounds like you wouldn't object you having your house knocked down in the name of progress then?

After all, if you are going to just do something, you can't let land ownership, property rights or the rule of law stand in your way. And if anyone objects, just arrest and shoot them. That's how civilised cities like Dubai and Bangkok work isn't it?

Again stopping putting words in my mouth. I have been compensation for road being build and having to be moved.

I saying what happen in those cities use mostly the type of person who don't care about human rights and go on trips to place like Dubai as long as you can't see the slaves who build your hotel who cares.
Original post by NomadicBrit
Like for example the M4 linking central London with Heathrow. How can it be acceptable to still have two lanes, a bus lane and a 40 mph limit in 2019? While the likes of Bangkok and Dubai have five lanes in each direction, smooth as silk and a world class sky rail/subway system.

Just increase the speed limit to 300 mph, and introduce the minimal speed of 270 mph.

That should instantly provide the capacity of a 5 lane motorway.
Reply 17
Avatar for RJDG14
RJDG14
16
The elevated section of M4 in London was built about 50 years ago, when traffic levels were a lot lower, and is difficult to upgrade. Much of the modern infrastructure in developing countries is less than 20 years old, and I consider this the key reason. You're right in saying that the standard of most of Britain's roads hasn't changed much since the 1970s.

Quick Reply

Latest

Trending

Trending

Articles for you