If Brexit is racist...
If Brexit is racist, then exactly at what point in time did Brexit become racist?
It's hard to believe that Brexit was racist back in the early 1980s when it was Labour Party policy. Also, there was little evidence that Brexit was racist back in 1997 with Jimmy Goldsmith's Referendum Party. Even UKIP was established as a non-racist and non-sectarian party.
It's hard to believe that Brexit was racist back in the early 1980s when it was Labour Party policy. Also, there was little evidence that Brexit was racist back in 1997 with Jimmy Goldsmith's Referendum Party. Even UKIP was established as a non-racist and non-sectarian party.
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Original post by Arran90
If Brexit is racist, then exactly at what point in time did Brexit become racist?
It's hard to believe that Brexit was racist back in the early 1980s when it was Labour Party policy. Also, there was little evidence that Brexit was racist back in 1997 with Jimmy Goldsmith's Referendum Party. Even UKIP was established as a non-racist and non-sectarian party.
It's hard to believe that Brexit was racist back in the early 1980s when it was Labour Party policy. Also, there was little evidence that Brexit was racist back in 1997 with Jimmy Goldsmith's Referendum Party. Even UKIP was established as a non-racist and non-sectarian party.
The general argument with the 2016 referendum is that it was largely successful as the result of fears over the refugee crisis in Central and Southern Europe. Germany accepted some 800,000 refugees, and due to freedom of movement, these refugees are able to settle in any EU nation. Much of the advert campaigns around Brexit had either explicit or implicit claims that Britain could become a potential destination for this large influx of migrants.
Additionally, there were concerns raised by brexiteers over Eastern European migrants taking British jobs and having a negative affect on the economy. Much of the pro-Brexit dialogue revolves around migration and culture, and thus could be viewed as racist is some lights.
Clearly there is a nuanced view to all this; large migrations do have effects on the culture and the economy of a nation, but is the solution to effectively close the borders to them? This is a question that is being debated across the western world. I would classify a significant minority of the Brexiteers as lightly xenophobic, but not harbouring any hate or animus towards migrants. At worst, this minority is hesitant of cultural shifts and economic impacts as the result of migration. There are certainly racists who support Brexit, but it’s unfair to classify more than half of those who voted as such.
TLDR; Some aspects of Brexit have to do with culture and race, but the majority of those who supported it are likely more concerned with economic and immigration policy.
brexit is to broad to be racist in itself. There are some racist argueements for brexit, but equally there are some anti-racist arguements for brexit..
For example, I voted remain in the end, but one of the most tempting arguements for me surrounding immigration, was that currently we have a two tiered immigration system (to simplify it massivly) where we prioritise mostly white-europeans first, the mostly non-white rest of the world. If your a European? Its easy, come right in.. but if your Chinese, Indian, African, Middle eastern.. well better hope you can pay the ever rising amount of money and fit the ever increasing number of demands.. There is an arguement for brexit that says 'lets treat everyone the same, regardless of their race, or nationality' when they are applying to come to the UK.
For example, I voted remain in the end, but one of the most tempting arguements for me surrounding immigration, was that currently we have a two tiered immigration system (to simplify it massivly) where we prioritise mostly white-europeans first, the mostly non-white rest of the world. If your a European? Its easy, come right in.. but if your Chinese, Indian, African, Middle eastern.. well better hope you can pay the ever rising amount of money and fit the ever increasing number of demands.. There is an arguement for brexit that says 'lets treat everyone the same, regardless of their race, or nationality' when they are applying to come to the UK.
No-one is saying Brexit is racist... just that many are drawn to it for racist reasons. It acts like a magnet for them just as UKIP finally did then Nigel said... nothing to do with me as he shunted away sideways. Bit like the Nuremberg trials... death camps, what death camps?
(edited 4 years ago)
Some supporters of Brexit are racist, as are some supporters of remain. Brexit itself is not racist and the mainstream arguments of the majority aren't racist
Original post by Costigan95
The general argument with the 2016 referendum is that it was largely successful as the result of fears over the refugee crisis in Central and Southern Europe. Germany accepted some 800,000 refugees, and due to freedom of movement, these refugees are able to settle in any EU nation. Much of the advert campaigns around Brexit had either explicit or implicit claims that Britain could become a potential destination for this large influx of migrants.
Additionally, there were concerns raised by brexiteers over Eastern European migrants taking British jobs and having a negative affect on the economy. Much of the pro-Brexit dialogue revolves around migration and culture, and thus could be viewed as racist is some lights.
Clearly there is a nuanced view to all this; large migrations do have effects on the culture and the economy of a nation, but is the solution to effectively close the borders to them? This is a question that is being debated across the western world. I would classify a significant minority of the Brexiteers as lightly xenophobic, but not harbouring any hate or animus towards migrants. At worst, this minority is hesitant of cultural shifts and economic impacts as the result of migration. There are certainly racists who support Brexit, but it’s unfair to classify more than half of those who voted as such.
TLDR; Some aspects of Brexit have to do with culture and race, but the majority of those who supported it are likely more concerned with economic and immigration policy.
Additionally, there were concerns raised by brexiteers over Eastern European migrants taking British jobs and having a negative affect on the economy. Much of the pro-Brexit dialogue revolves around migration and culture, and thus could be viewed as racist is some lights.
Clearly there is a nuanced view to all this; large migrations do have effects on the culture and the economy of a nation, but is the solution to effectively close the borders to them? This is a question that is being debated across the western world. I would classify a significant minority of the Brexiteers as lightly xenophobic, but not harbouring any hate or animus towards migrants. At worst, this minority is hesitant of cultural shifts and economic impacts as the result of migration. There are certainly racists who support Brexit, but it’s unfair to classify more than half of those who voted as such.
TLDR; Some aspects of Brexit have to do with culture and race, but the majority of those who supported it are likely more concerned with economic and immigration policy.
agreed
How is the process of exiting a political union racist?, the vast, vast majority of Brexit voters are not racist, however those with racist tendencies tended to vote for Brexit, and seem to think that the 52% is somehow with them using their limited sense of intellect.
It’s not and very few people believe all Brexit supporters are racist.
It’s just become a common refrain among Brexiters to claim that they are viewed as racists by remain supporters. It is part of their victimhood narrative.
It’s just become a common refrain among Brexiters to claim that they are viewed as racists by remain supporters. It is part of their victimhood narrative.
Original post by Arran90
If Brexit is racist, then exactly at what point in time did Brexit become racist?
It's hard to believe that Brexit was racist back in the early 1980s when it was Labour Party policy. Also, there was little evidence that Brexit was racist back in 1997 with Jimmy Goldsmith's Referendum Party.
It's hard to believe that Brexit was racist back in the early 1980s when it was Labour Party policy. Also, there was little evidence that Brexit was racist back in 1997 with Jimmy Goldsmith's Referendum Party.
Brexit itself is not racist. However, many people voted Leave for racist (or more accurately, xenophobic) reasons.
Even UKIP was established as a non-racist and non-sectarian party.
By racists.
Original post by BlueIndigoViolet
How is the process of exiting a political union racist?, the vast, vast majority of Brexit voters are not racist, however those with racist tendencies tended to vote for Brexit, and seem to think that the 52% is somehow with them using their limited sense of intellect.
idk but i have the impression that most under 50-60s who voted for Brexit was because of the immagration crisis still doesn't mean they are racist lol
Original post by Costigan95
The general argument with the 2016 referendum is that it was largely successful as the result of fears over the refugee crisis in Central and Southern Europe. Germany accepted some 800,000 refugees, and due to freedom of movement, these refugees are able to settle in any EU nation. Much of the advert campaigns around Brexit had either explicit or implicit claims that Britain could become a potential destination for this large influx of migrants.
Additionally, there were concerns raised by brexiteers over Eastern European migrants taking British jobs and having a negative affect on the economy. Much of the pro-Brexit dialogue revolves around migration and culture, and thus could be viewed as racist is some lights.
Clearly there is a nuanced view to all this; large migrations do have effects on the culture and the economy of a nation, but is the solution to effectively close the borders to them? This is a question that is being debated across the western world. I would classify a significant minority of the Brexiteers as lightly xenophobic, but not harbouring any hate or animus towards migrants. At worst, this minority is hesitant of cultural shifts and economic impacts as the result of migration. There are certainly racists who support Brexit, but it’s unfair to classify more than half of those who voted as such.
TLDR; Some aspects of Brexit have to do with culture and race, but the majority of those who supported it are likely more concerned with economic and immigration policy.
Additionally, there were concerns raised by brexiteers over Eastern European migrants taking British jobs and having a negative affect on the economy. Much of the pro-Brexit dialogue revolves around migration and culture, and thus could be viewed as racist is some lights.
Clearly there is a nuanced view to all this; large migrations do have effects on the culture and the economy of a nation, but is the solution to effectively close the borders to them? This is a question that is being debated across the western world. I would classify a significant minority of the Brexiteers as lightly xenophobic, but not harbouring any hate or animus towards migrants. At worst, this minority is hesitant of cultural shifts and economic impacts as the result of migration. There are certainly racists who support Brexit, but it’s unfair to classify more than half of those who voted as such.
TLDR; Some aspects of Brexit have to do with culture and race, but the majority of those who supported it are likely more concerned with economic and immigration policy.
You make a fair point. Mass immigration from eastern Europe since the early 2000s added in a new dimension to the remain in the EU or leave the EU argument. Prior to this the argument was primarily based on sovereignty, economic issues, who should be Britain's main trading partners, and farming and fishing. UKIP was established on a platform of leaving the EU for economic reasons more than anything else and was soft as a banana on immigration.
Mass immigration from eastern Europe mobilised millions of people to oppose Britain's membership of the EU who previously had a don't know / don't mind / don't care attitude, or in some cases were previously pro-EU. A high proportion of them may have been mildly xenophobic but it's unjustified to say that they were racist in a more conventional sense of the word, or harboured grievances towards non-EU immigrants who had to pass through immigration barriers, visas, citizenship applications etc. whilst EU immigrants could walk into Britain without facing any barriers. It's possible that if the EU was just 15 western European nations or if Britain had an exemption from the free movement of people under the Maastricht treaty then a high proportion of people who voted Leave because of mass immigration would have voted Remain.
Nobody has yet mentioned the official campaign. My experience is that a significant number of people who go round saying Brexit is racist point to the official campaign and the figures behind Leave.
1) Opposition to immigration isn't racist (this from someone who would follow an ”open borders for skilled professionals” position - certainly not a ”send 'em all back to where they came from” chap). Opposition to particular immigrants on the grounds of race (as the EU does) is.
2) As the old joke (at least on our WhatsApp) goes:
Brexit is:
So racist it's backed by Kwasi Kwarteng
So xenophobic it's backed by Dominic Kawcynski
So misogynistic it's backed by Andrea Leadsom
So Islamophobic it's backed by Sajid Javid
So anti-Semitic it's backed by Dominic Raab
So anti-Catholic it's backed by Jacob Rees-Mogg
So homophobic it's backed by Darren Grimes
So transphobic it's backed by India Willoughby.
2) As the old joke (at least on our WhatsApp) goes:
Brexit is:
So racist it's backed by Kwasi Kwarteng
So xenophobic it's backed by Dominic Kawcynski
So misogynistic it's backed by Andrea Leadsom
So Islamophobic it's backed by Sajid Javid
So anti-Semitic it's backed by Dominic Raab
So anti-Catholic it's backed by Jacob Rees-Mogg
So homophobic it's backed by Darren Grimes
So transphobic it's backed by India Willoughby.
Original post by LiberOfLondon
1) Opposition to immigration isn't racist (this from someone who would follow an ”open borders for skilled professionals” position - certainly not a ”send 'em all back to where they came from” chap). Opposition to particular immigrants on the grounds of race (as the EU does) is.
2) As the old joke (at least on our WhatsApp) goes:
Brexit is:
So racist it's backed by Kwasi Kwarteng
So xenophobic it's backed by Dominic Kawcynski
So misogynistic it's backed by Andrea Leadsom
So Islamophobic it's backed by Sajid Javid
So anti-Semitic it's backed by Dominic Raab
So anti-Catholic it's backed by Jacob Rees-Mogg
So homophobic it's backed by Darren Grimes
So transphobic it's backed by India Willoughby.
2) As the old joke (at least on our WhatsApp) goes:
Brexit is:
So racist it's backed by Kwasi Kwarteng
So xenophobic it's backed by Dominic Kawcynski
So misogynistic it's backed by Andrea Leadsom
So Islamophobic it's backed by Sajid Javid
So anti-Semitic it's backed by Dominic Raab
So anti-Catholic it's backed by Jacob Rees-Mogg
So homophobic it's backed by Darren Grimes
So transphobic it's backed by India Willoughby.
My, what a big straw man you have!
The argument is that many people voted Leave for racist (or more accurately xenophobic) reasons.
Rational people do not claim that Brexit is those things, especially not misogynistic, transphobic or homophobic - although many people who voted Leave are. The people who engineered Brexit did it for political and economic reasons, but they knew that it could be made to appeal the the racists, xenophobes, etc.
Original post by QE2
My, what a big straw man you have!
The argument is that many people voted Leave for racist (or more accurately xenophobic) reasons.
Rational people do not claim that Brexit is those things, especially not misogynistic, transphobic or homophobic - although many people who voted Leave are. The people who engineered Brexit did it for political and economic reasons, but they knew that it could be made to appeal the the racists, xenophobes, etc.
The argument is that many people voted Leave for racist (or more accurately xenophobic) reasons.
Rational people do not claim that Brexit is those things, especially not misogynistic, transphobic or homophobic - although many people who voted Leave are. The people who engineered Brexit did it for political and economic reasons, but they knew that it could be made to appeal the the racists, xenophobes, etc.
Says the man who supports the institutionally racist EU.
Original post by Arran90
If Brexit is racist, then exactly at what point in time did Brexit become racist?
It's hard to believe that Brexit was racist back in the early 1980s when it was Labour Party policy. Also, there was little evidence that Brexit was racist back in 1997 with Jimmy Goldsmith's Referendum Party. Even UKIP was established as a non-racist and non-sectarian party.
It's hard to believe that Brexit was racist back in the early 1980s when it was Labour Party policy. Also, there was little evidence that Brexit was racist back in 1997 with Jimmy Goldsmith's Referendum Party. Even UKIP was established as a non-racist and non-sectarian party.
I feel like this is a strawman argument. I can't think of anyone who claims Brexit (as a process) is "racist".
Original post by LiberOfLondon
Says the man who supports the institutionally racist EU.
You are just saying words and hoping they mean something now, aren't you?
I've spoken about this on other topics. I think this subject is deeper than what it actually is in the eyes of the fanatics who spout this rubbish. let me explain my theory.
There is a new "left wing" movement that has been gathering pace over the last couple of decades, not just in the UK, particularly strong in America. In fact it's not left wing at all, it's right wing. Anyway these groups have slowly politicised groups and rely heavily on them being "victims". Women, Jew, Asian, gay etc. Have all been made into political pawns, to the point where if you believe in the wrong politics you are somehow the wrong type of Women, Jews, Asian, gay etc. Their biggest offence when they lose logical debate is illiberal insults. You agree with me or I will call you a xenophobic, racist, homophobic, misogynistic etc. Evidence is clear from many sources from the forum to the mainstream media.
Now this links with brexit because brexit has been their kryptonite, I use that because they have been a Superman like force in politics up to Brexit. The very next day after the referendum Dianne Abbott, Caroline Lucas and co was out shouting their "safe place" card, the trump card that makes everything go away, fat turns to meat, straw turns to grass with a shout of "Racism". But brexit has not gone away, this is the problem for them.
So I believe they know the difference between immigration control and reduction or stopping of immigration full stop but can't say that now, because in doing so would risk their "safe place" card forever. They need brexit stopped and the "safe place" card back in place.
There is a new "left wing" movement that has been gathering pace over the last couple of decades, not just in the UK, particularly strong in America. In fact it's not left wing at all, it's right wing. Anyway these groups have slowly politicised groups and rely heavily on them being "victims". Women, Jew, Asian, gay etc. Have all been made into political pawns, to the point where if you believe in the wrong politics you are somehow the wrong type of Women, Jews, Asian, gay etc. Their biggest offence when they lose logical debate is illiberal insults. You agree with me or I will call you a xenophobic, racist, homophobic, misogynistic etc. Evidence is clear from many sources from the forum to the mainstream media.
Now this links with brexit because brexit has been their kryptonite, I use that because they have been a Superman like force in politics up to Brexit. The very next day after the referendum Dianne Abbott, Caroline Lucas and co was out shouting their "safe place" card, the trump card that makes everything go away, fat turns to meat, straw turns to grass with a shout of "Racism". But brexit has not gone away, this is the problem for them.
So I believe they know the difference between immigration control and reduction or stopping of immigration full stop but can't say that now, because in doing so would risk their "safe place" card forever. They need brexit stopped and the "safe place" card back in place.
Original post by jason0597
I feel like this is a strawman argument. I can't think of anyone who claims Brexit (as a process) is "racist".
Read this forum, I can name you at least 5 who do.
Original post by QE2
You are just saying words and hoping they mean something now, aren't you?
No maybe hes making a point you are missing, imagine that?
Original post by QE2
You are just saying words and hoping they mean something now, aren't you?
No. The EU prioritises immigrants from majority white, Eastern European countries over ones from majority non-white, Commonwealth countries. Pretty racist.
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