Should Billionaires Exist in the UK?

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You seem to be implying that socialism is the only antidote to poverty - go to Venezuela and have a look around if you believe that to be the case.

I implied no such thing.

Reply 41

mathspaperfree

people also don't need 10s of millions, no one needs 10 luxury cars and 3 houses, yet many people do.

Reply 42

yhslaw

Original post by Palmyra

Sensible people and nobel prize winning economists: billionaires should be taxed very highly and preferably out of existence

Right wing losers struggling to make ends meet on <£40,000 a year: this is class warfare how dare you attack billionaires I might be rich like them one day !!!!

I have always seen the exact opposite of this. Have you ever researched trickle down economics? The super-rich are essential to creating jobs and further wealth in the country.

Reply 43

Stiff Little Fingers

Original post by LiberOfLondon

You seem to be implying that socialism is the only antidote to poverty - go to Venezuela and have a look around if you believe that to be the case.

We understand that billionaires have a LOT of money, and the various ”a billion vs a million” things. The fact of the matter is that we live in a free country, and people should be able to do what they want with their money. Also, see my response to @The Mogg which shows that it would be economically impractical to get rid of billionaires.

You fail to understand the difference between living off your work, and living off wealth. No billionaire has ever earned or worked for their billion(s), they've gained it through inheritance and corruption.

Reply 44

Stiff Little Fingers

Original post by yhslaw

I have always seen the exact opposite of this. Have you ever researched trickle down economics? The super-rich are essential to creating jobs and further wealth in the country.

Trickle down economics is a myth, it's never actually happened. All it is is an excuse to do a massive wealth transfer from the poor to the rich (after all, the poorest amongst us pay far more relative tax, particularly once indirect taxes like VAT are factored in) on the pretence that the poor might eventually get it back. But, just like the dragon sleeping on its ill-gotten pile of gold and rubies, the super-rich never gives their stolen wealth back

Reply 45

yhslaw

Trickle down does happen but I will admit not to the scale the super-rich would have us believe. I also see where everyone is coming from in regards to them not needing such vast wealth (I imagined Smaug in the hobbit from your analogy ). Some of the opinions in this thread are definitely aligned with those of Karl Marx.

I also think it's worth noting that a lot of the world's billionaires do many great things with their money that governments are simply too bureaucratic to achieve

(edited 4 years ago)

Reply 46

Rakas21

Original post by yhslaw

On trickle down I think it depends whether we are talking about business or income taxes.

On income tax reduction for the wealthy spurring further economic activity or providing much in the way of any real benefit, have over time come to agree with those who view it as suspect. There is little reason to believe that Bob Diamond having to pay x rather than y levels of personal taxation will have any real impact.

On business taxes I completely believe that there is substantial evidence to support the idea that reduction in corporate taxes has significant economic benefit on the basis that lower corporation tax has led to an influx of global firms registering in the UK (Ireland is a more extreme example) and in doing so they create a lot of high paid office jobs (I will admit that most of the benefit here is directed at London and they still often produce offshore). On business rates, these are a literal cost to business and since most UK firms operate in competitive sectors that cost reduction will be passed to the consumer in many cases which in turn generates more job creation.

Nope.

Original post by Stiff Little Fingers

Jeff Bezos did earn his money fairly, was born into a regular middle class family and wasn't corrupt.

Reply 49

Stiff Little Fingers

Original post by LiberOfLondon

Jeff Bezos did earn his money fairly, was born into a regular middle class family and wasn't corrupt.

Jeff Bezos is corrupt as ****, using shady business practices to put any competitors out of business. Not to mention the rampant abuse of workers rights, he didn't earn his billions fairly by any stretch of the imagination

Reply 50

Snufkin

Universities Forum Helper

Original post by Stiff Little Fingers

There will always be those who are poorer than others, but that is not the same as those who cannot survive on the fruits of their labour because the system is rigged to keep them poor (and contrary to the impression people might get from this thread, boot has no nutritional value).

Genuinely, I'd suggest reading this: https://novaramedia.com/2019/11/01/why-on-earth-shouldnt-people-be-able-to-be-billionaires/ - everything said in this thread in defence of billionaires starts from a failure to understand what a billionaire is

I cannot believe you read that rag.

Reply 51

z-hog

I couldn't care less about billionaires, it is the State that sucks up our blood like nobody else and this is no more than a diversion by the commies.

Reply 52

mathspaperfree

Original post by Stiff Little Fingers

they've gained it through inheritance and corruption.

Corruption = what? giving people minimum wage and demanding maximum effort? that isn't corruption that is business.

Reply 53

username4406682

Original post by Snufkin

I cannot believe you read that rag.

Novara Media makes the Daily Mirror look like a serious, nonbiased paper by comparison.

Reply 54

Stiff Little Fingers

Original post by Snufkin

I cannot believe you read that rag.

Yeah, I can't believe I look at reality rather than deep-throating that boot either... :rolleyes:

Original post by mathspaperfree

Corruption = what? giving people minimum wage and demanding maximum effort? that isn't corruption that is business.

Corruption = political arrangements designed to stop any competition (aka crony capitalism). What you've just described is legalised theft and is also an example of how no billionaire has earned their wealth, but it's not what I was referring to.

Reply 55

Snufkin

Universities Forum Helper

Original post by Stiff Little Fingers

Yeah, I can't believe I look at reality rather than deep-throating that boot either... :rolleyes:

Reality? It's basically the Daily Mail for the far-left. No nuance, no attempt to understand opposing ideas, no real journalism; it's just ideological propaganda and no small amount of fake news.

Reply 56

Napp

Original post by Stiff Little Fingers

Are you being serious or are you deliberately fibbing?

Original post by Stiff Little Fingers

Trickle down economics is a myth, it's never actually happened.

Most economists would beg to differ.

All it is is an excuse to do a massive wealth transfer from the poor to the rich (after all, the poorest amongst us pay far more relative tax,

Maybe but you pay far far far less actual tax.

But, just like the dragon sleeping on its ill-gotten pile of gold and rubies, the super-rich never gives their stolen wealth back

What makes you say its "stolen"? :lol:

Or is this more of this rather cute entitlement complex?

Reply 57

username4406682

The trickle-down effect does work - deregulated, Thatcherite countries such as Singapore have a far higher GDP per capita then socialist countries like Venezuela or North Korea.

Reply 58

username4406682

Original post by Stiff Little Fingers

Yeah, I can't believe I look at reality rather than deep-throating that boot either... :rolleyes:

How is paying people minimum wage theft?

Time is a resource, which people have a fixed amount of. You can sell your time (work) where you get paid for it (wages). Working at minimum wage is a transaction where you take your time and trade it for a fixed amount of money. As both participants in the sale are consenting to the trade of something, it isn't theft. Theft of time would be using a service and not paying for it, or slavery.

Reply 59

jamesbarry17

If I am so successful and come up with a product and business so popular amongst the public and beneficial to society that I make £100 billion, is it fair that I should have 99% of my wealth taken away from me??? Of course taxes should exist, but billionaires are still people like the rest of us and should be treated as such.