Opinions on Tony Blair's Speech today: Antisemitism, Brexit, Corbynism & Thatcherism

It’s also used by Tories who don’t have the most positive memories of his terms.

Yes.
But when the Conservatives talk about the Blairites and Mr Blair himself, there is usually blatant envy in their tone.
Accompanied by sourness, inane whining and the jealous hissing typical of the bad losers who lack the maturity to hide the fact that they are bad losers.
Hardly surprising considering the extent of Blair's electoral success or that it came at the expense of so many failed Conservative candidates for PM.

Many people are tired and fed up of sanctimonious Tony Blair. This is a man that has thrown his Party under the bus and yet tries to claim moral superiority. For a former Party leader to publicly suggest against voting for his own Party is amazing treachery.

This is probably the most aggressive I’ve seen you be. I’m guessing Tony Blair was your favourite PM. I’m not a huge fan of him but he’s a step up to the bunch we have now. I just wish there was someone who was a leftist who had the charm and charisma of Blair and the ideals of Corbyn without the baggage and encouraged a more inclusive Labour.

You find Blair sanctimonious or smug with the moral superiority?
I get those vibe more from John Major and Ian Duncan Smith.
Occasionally Arlene Foster and Jo Swinson can come across as a bit high on their own self-righteousness.

I've always had the impression that Tony Blair was hoping to win at least six general elections, exceed Walpole's tenure as PM and secure his place in the history books as the longest serving PM in British history.
Probably still quite resentful about being booted out before he could achieve it by Brown, Watson and the rest.

Calling it treachery is a bit harsh.
Although quite a few friends are using the same rhetoric as regards Major and Farage.

Politics seems to have suddenly turned ultra tribal, with political support starting to include a quasi-religious type of fervour and devotion.
It's as if a sizeable proportion of the uk & usa's electorate don't want to remember that political parties are not entitled to any votes.
Nor automatically owed unconditional loyalty from members and former leaders.
Political affiliation isn't supposed to be a holy sacrament.
Elections should really be won (and lost) on ideas and maybe leadership potential.
The good, bad, feeble, dangerous and downright idiotic.

I am fed up and tired of hearing Tony Blair’s name whenever Labour has any issue whether internally or after an election.

Yes, I agree completely that he did win 3 elections and is our best performing Labour leader. However, he was opportune with such a place due to the timing of his first election victory that came after a demolition job of the unions and the public by Tatcher and Major. He also continued to retain his victory because he maintained a conservative (with a small ‘c’) government IMO. It is the reason why many Labour people esp those on the real left loathed him throughout his time in office. It was the Iraq war issues that stoked up the public hatred.

It is near impossible to condemn or attack a leader who has done well for his Party esp from those who think he is probably doing badly. Most people complain and mutter words of discontent to their own mates or other MPs who share similar views. This, I think, happened with Blair until Brown and co found a way to push him out when he was truly weak. I think he was so deluded about the ‘love’ that he got from all parts of his Party that subsequent remarks showed that he had no clue at the level of disdain that the real left hard for the closet Tory.

Tony Blair then comes across every time he is invited by the media to lecture us about how we can do well to bring forth a Labour Government. His attitudes and words tend to be condescending and sometimes rude. For a former leader of the Labour Party to outrightly support voters to vote against his own party is disgusting in my opinion. Yes, you may have differences but don't air your smelly knickers in flipping public. That, to me, is treacherous.

I agree that politics is now about identity and fervent support for a particular ideology without common sense or calm dialogue. It is a shame that people esp some on the right are to scared to have a sensible debate on their own country. We need to separate those with real grievances about their communities from the bigoted racists or those who are out to divide us. The worry that some on the left fear is that once you lower the bar, the hate rears its ugly head, which was clear after Brexit in 2016.

Finally, I agree with you that we have to step away from the idea that the electorate will give unconditional loyalty to any Party. It is time to win the support of everyone by putting our ideas forward in a clear and measured manner. I have written before that the Labour Party needs to stop being a protest movement and become the Opposition and Government-in-waiting. It is ridiculous to oppose for the sake of it. We have to support when it is good and constructively oppose when it is wrong. If not, we may be facing a decade under Boris Johnson.

On the plus side, you don't have to hear Cherie Blair's voice or even her name that often.
Nor do Labour Party members contribute towards her hairdressing bills any longer.
So the glasses are at least half full.

I doubt Boris Johnson will be be able to count on ten years worth of goodwill from Conservative MPs and members.
He's not in the league of Mrs Thatcher or Robert Walpole.
I'm not a member but I voted for Boris reluctantly, couldn't stomach voting for the DUP so had to vote in England.
Half the Conservative party members I know considered voting for Brexit Party candidates after the decision not to field candidates in Conservative held constituencies. Three tell me that they did, all hardcore Thatcherites under 35 that joined the Conservatives as teenagers.

Lol, every dark cloud does have a silver lining.

I would have never guessed that you are a Tory or should I say ‘closet’ Tory. Are you Northern Irish? Why did you feel that your only option was to vote Conservative? From your post, it seems that you are surrounded by Tories and members of the political right, so may have been influenced by groupthink. This is because your previous post about your family background pointed towards a hard left view of the world, so I would have thought some of your parents’ political views may have rubbed off on you.

You may be right about Boris Johnson, but the Queen Speech does point towards longterm strategic planning on the part of the Tories. Many political commentators appeared to be surprised at the medium term policy view that the PM has taken. If they repeal the fixed term parliament act then, maybe, just maybe, things may change for the great Labour Party. If not, Johnson just needs another victory in 2024 (even with a smaller majority) to have outstayed the last 3 Tory PMs in office.

You probably would be able to guess that I've voted Conservative before.
Most of the JVL, J4L/Momentum and hardcore trade unionists I've met have an uncanny ability to detect ideological opponents to socialism.
My union jack wearing toy bulldog makes his enthusiasm for the Conservative Party obvious to everyone; he posts frequent odes to one nation conservatism and even poses for photos with my signed copy of Mrs Thatcher's autobiography on his thread.

My friends, ex's and coworkers are a politically diverse bunch.
All the mainstream political parties of England plus a variety of fringe parties.
Christian Peoples Alliance, DUP, Sinn Fein, SNP, Socialist Worker Party, Womens Equality Party.
No groupthink at all, we've all got totally different values and political priorities.
Most of the other children of revolutionaries I knew growing up are political activists, joined either SWP or Labour.
One guy even joined the WRP, stood as their candidate this year for Southall- when he showed me his election leaflet it certainly got my attention.

I'm not from Northern Ireland, I have friends living there and visit them a couple of times a year.
My first boyfriend registered me to vote at one of his properties in Belfast when I was an undergrad, years after we split up.
His grandfather made his inheritance conditional upon DUP membership; his whole family are uvf affiliated orangemen but he's atheist and lukewarm on ulster loyalism.

This election was pretty much about either stopping Brexit or stopping Corbyn from moving into no 10.
I have totally different values from my parents, their solidarity always seems to be with all the wrong people and factions.
Revolutionary trade unionist socialists embrace a separatist class war agenda, view themselves as heroic warriors battling the bourgeois capitalist state/its human agents, subscribe to an abundance of vicious conspiracy theories and reject the legitimacy of most traditions plus all its institutions (even the police).

My parent's revolutionary views are about as far from mainstream socialism as anyone can get.
Even the more left leaning brand of socialism that advocates nationalisation, banning private schools for all children that don't have special needs and a re-distributive tax agenda.
Ideologically my parents are milometers away from marxism, in my father's case anarcho-communism.
The revolutionary tactics and lifestyle can often come across as cult like and occasionally it is indeed a cult- only with secular leadership, doctrines and alliances instead of religious ones.
My father's ex is a dissident Irish republican; her lifestyle is very like that but she has lightning fast reflexes, usually disappears before trouble starts up and always keeps her gun handy. Knew that she would not be suited to family life, so never had children and carries everything she needs in one bag in case she needs to make a quick getaway.
I've never given her any address but she always manages to find me and so do her birthday gifts.

But there is a sinister element too.
One that evil people with the right connections know precisely how to manipulate to suit their own unpleasant ends.
The healthy adult revolutionaries that choose to play those type of games with their own lives make their decision and that is their freedom to do so.
It often ends like losing a game of high stakes poker; if they break the law, get caught, then they alone are responsible and the consequences are generally severe.

But it is resembles behaviour of a creepy cult to impose that lifestyle upon their children, facilitate known abuser pals/allies desire to deceitfully reestablish contact to replay past events with the very victims who fled to escape from their clutches and adopt a strategy of seeking new recruits amongst the most lonely vulnerable people in society.
Deliberately targeting those that are guaranteed to lose everything and have nobody to help them if they can't intellectually/physically keep up or are unjustly denounced as traitors at an internal level.

These are absolutely unforgivable and something of a habit of my mother's over the last 40 years.
My father is far from blameless, he got my mother immersed in revolutionary trade union socialism and started the cycle.
But at least he learned from some of his past mistakes and he's not the one still doing it.
Long before I was born and long after I cut contact, it's like my mother has made herself wilfully blind to the utter mayhem and misery that she is facilitating in the name of solidarity.

Opinions?

Please no personal abuse of either Tony Blair or Jeremy Corbyn.
Let's remain civil in all discussions of each Labour leader's leadership, politics and place in UK history.
Aggression and insulting behaviour between TSR members only adds to the mods workload.

This is interesting. I thought your bulldog was a prop to clown the Tories. I did not know that you were a loyal disciple of Tatcher.

I don't agree that the election was between stopping Brexit or stopping Corbyn. That was the case pushed by the Tories and the media.

You have had a really interesting life. To be only 24 with such depth and breadth in life experience is remarkable. Your friends and family are some of the interesting people that I have read about and how very different their lives have been, yet remained connected to you at different points.

I personally despised Thatcher but even so, she was a great politician and so was Tony Blair.

Union Jack wearing bulldog resents being considered a prop, if anything people are his props.
Human beans are also useful for his tasty takeaways, political point scoring, war with Jame Oliver and accumulating instagram likes.
Mr. Bulldog sees himself as top dog of my toy animal collection.
He's currently trying to persuade santa's reindeer and three pink little ponies to embrace One Nation Conservatism.
Constantly gets into nasty fights with oldest harrods bear who admires Peter Mandelson and a super Thatcherite giant wolf.

I admire Mrs Thatcher despite that irritating and very creepy religious preaching habit that she had.
But I also acknowledge how dire her worst misjudgements were.
Particularly the disreputable episodes in uk policing, ulster loyalist paramilitaries running amok in northern & southern ireland, elaborate cover-ups and entering into catastrophic "anti-communist alliances" with the horrifying overseas regimes that every reasonable person would have known to avoid like the plague.
Out of office, Mrs Thatcher did express a few regrets as regards the adverse consequences of the latter for her personal credibility and political legacy.

My late uncle had a much more interesting life than me.
He loved life in the fast lane with plenty of adventure and thrills.
Orphaned before he was 9, making a fortune from gambling at primary school, then sneaking off to London underage to cater to the illegal gambling hobbies of high society and then embarking upon decades of no string sex with half the playboy club bunnies/casino girls/exotic dancers in england & america.

I know I should be grateful for all my life experiences and the early life lessons.
But I remember almost everything and everyone from early babyhood onwards.
Whenever I've been over-enthusiastic with the cognac or my favourite cocktails, it feels like I'm drowning in memories.
Lasts for hours instead of a hangover.
I almost envy the blackout, laughing and singing types of drunks.

Was it Mrs Thatcher's authoritarianism or her incessant religious preaching that put you off?

Her voice grated on me and her politics were too right wing.

One of the things she did early on in her career was to abolish free school milk and thus earnt her nickname, "Thatcher the milk snatcher". She introduced the Right to Buy scheme to appeal to working class voters but didn't care about the long term problems caused by the mass sale of our stock of council houses. She encouraged self interest and famously declared that "there is no such thing as society"

He's irrelevant, the only reason we should be hearing from Blair is if it's a trail for war crimes.

Here is the full text of Tony Blair's speech:

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/12/tony-blair-s-speech-future-labour-and-progressive-politics-full-text

Below are a few memorable extracts from the speech:

"This election was no ordinary defeat for Labour. It marks a moment in history."

"It was a Brexit general election – which was why it was a cardinal error for Labour ever to agree it"

"The takeover of the Labour Party by the far left turned it into a glorified protest movement, with cult trimmings, utterly incapable of being a credible government.
The result has brought shame on us.
We let our country down. "

"I noted the cockiness of the Johnson visit to Sedgefield to rub salt in the wound!"

"Let us demolish this delusion that “the manifesto was popular”.
The sentiment behind some of the policy reflected public anxieties, but in combination, it was one hundred pages of “wish list”. Any fool can promise everything for free.
But the people weren’t fooled.
They know life isn’t like that.
And the loading in of “free broadband” run by government was the final confirmation of incredibility."

"Anti-Semitism is a stain.
The failure to deal with it, a matter of disgust that left some of us who voted Labour feeling, for the first time in our lives, conflicted about doing it."

"Labour can keep with the programme and positions of Corbyn with a new leader.
In which case it is finished.
Or it can understand that it must recapture the party from the far left, make radical changes and begin the march back."

"We cannot afford to repeat 1983, moving crab-like towards reality. You know the narrative.
Among the far left, “we won the argument” it’s just for some inexplicable reason the British people having accepted we were right, decided to vote for the other guys."

"If we go down this line, it will be 15 years more of Tory government."

"For the Labour Party the choices are stark, starker than it realises.
It is gearing up to fight an “ultra-Thatcherite” Tory party."

Opinions?

Please no personal abuse of either Tony Blair or Jeremy Corbyn.
Let's remain civil in all discussions of each Labour leader's leadership, politics and place in UK history.
Aggression and insulting behaviour between TSR members only adds to the mods workload.

He's irrelevant, the only reason we should be hearing from Blair is if it's a trail for war crimes.

He's irrelevant, the only reason we should be hearing from Blair is if it's a trail for war crimes.