The end of class based politics?

I think the divide is still there but Labour are not representing the traditional electorate any more. In Scotland Labour have been replaced by the SNP.

The blue collar working class of old that formed the bedrock of the Labour support base is a fraction of its former size but what has emerged since the 1980s is a new working class in low skilled low paid positions in the service sector like restaurant and fast food workers, retail, call centre workers, delivery drivers, Amazon warehouse staff, people on zero hour contracts and agency temps. Labour did have some difficulty attracting this new working class in the service sector back in the 1980s and early 1990s, but after the 1997 general election it was well within the prime voting demographic for Labour and those who didn't vote Labour tended to shun the Conservatives.

Jeremy Corbyn's Labour may not resonate well with the blue collar working class of old in the north and the West Midlands but how well does it connect with the new working class in the service sector?

In 1997 everyone voted Labour!

The truth is that Labour was formed out of the unions, heavy industry and cooperative societies. Following Thatcher, and globalisation, those sectors don't really exist anymore.

I think Labour should aim to represent all people, working class and middle class.

There isn't really a party analogous to the SNP in England. The English Democrats are technically their equivalent in terms of separatism but very few people vote for them and they hardly even appear on the political radar. Change UK was a recent attempt to create a centrist middle of the road party but it completely failed to catch on with the electorate.

Could this imply that although there are similar disparities in wealth, power, and influence in both Scotland and England, the concept of social class is less pronounced in Scotland than it is in England? It has been argued that Scotland has more in the way of classless culture and identity than England has although it may be superficial and Scotland is far from being a culturally homogenous nation even by geography.

In 1997 everyone voted Labour!

The truth is that Labour was formed out of the unions, heavy industry and cooperative societies. Following Thatcher, and globalisation, those sectors don't really exist anymore.

I think Labour should aim to represent all people, working class and middle class.

Labour was formed to provide reputsentation of those in society who was left behind, labour have lost support because they are not providing reputsentation of those in society who was left behind.

There is also a gender aspect. Unlike all other post war Tory wins the Tories won in 2010, 2015 and 2017 with only the male vote. In this election we won both but the margin was still only 6% amongst women vs 19% for men.

I do wonder whether feminism vs alt right attitudes comes into play here.

There is a gender gap, but only really amongst the young. Whilst women lean more Labour in every age group, and the young heavily skew Labour regardless of gender, young women are still much more likely to vote Labour and much less likely to vote Conservative than young men, while retired-age women are only marginally more likely to vote Labour than men.

Ultimately the big defining divide is now age and education.

We used to be a society divided above all by class and age, and geographic and national difference with these islands and politics reflected it.

Not we are divided by everything. Class and age still, geographic difference less, but national more, ethnic origin, religion (of many creeds) or its lack, sexuality, support for the EU, or opposition, you name it, it divides us.

And politics doesn't reflect that. It hasn't caught up.

Interesting thought. Is Britain moving away from politics of left and right towards the American system of liberal and conservative?

Liberal and Conservative are euphemisms for left and right anyway.

Not really. British liberal is more social policy whereas American liberal is more economic policy - usually referred to as socialism or economic left in Britain. The 19th century British liberals were hardline economic capitalists. Conservative is a closer match between the two although the American definition does intertwine both economic and social policy as they have less in the way of a nationalist right (that is often centrist or even centre left on economic issues) than Britain and Europe have.

My mother told me that back in the 1970s and 1980s - possibly even in the 1992 general election - there was a gender gap and men were more likely to vote Labour than Conservative although the gap narrowed amongst the youngest voters under 25ish. Labour had a bit of a macho image associated with brawny blue collar and industrial workers whereas the Conservatives were seen as more genteel and for non-manual workers.

Only 43.2% of the voters! A thumping great majority on less than half of the vote.



That's true but it's left in its wake a huge new working class in the service sector along with zero hours contracts and casualised employment. How effective has Labour been at adapting to support these sectors of society?

It's notable that the trade unions have not been effective at providing support for the new working class in the service sector but instead prefer to stay in their comfort zones of public sector employees and other traditionally unionised sectors - like train drivers. This could have an impact on Labour itself resulting in them living in a bubble and failing to address the needs and requirements of the new working class in the service sector because it isn't represented through the trade unions.

That's easier said than done. Everything to everybody can easily end up as nothing to nobody. The SNP has cracked it at becoming a classless big tent party but they have a strong central plank - an independent Scotland - and are supported by the 45% who voted for independence in the referendum. To a lesser extent UKIP and The Brexit Party succeeded in a similar way because of their strong central plank of leaving the EU. Even the Lib-Dems re-invented themselves following the smash up in 2015 by adopting a strong central plank of cancelling Brexit and their votes have risen as a result. Labour unfortunately lacks a strong central plank as they are traditionally built on a bedrock of class based rather than theme based politics.

It does seem a strange irony how the university educated gravitates towards a party where it's sums don't add up whereas those with a more basic education are more inclined to shun the magic money tree.

It's also a strange irony how a 20 something with a degree who works in Greggs because they can't find a graduate job votes Labour whereas their work colleague of the same age with just a few GCSEs to their name votes Conservative. Back in the 1990s the reverse would be more likely.

It is not ironic that a 20 something who works in Greggs and rents voted for a left wing party. That is what the 21st century working class looks like and it would be weird if these poeple were not more prone to vote Labour over Tory. What do expect them to do? Vote for the party of property when they have none? When the Brexit patriotism means little to them? For that kind of person you either don't vote or vote Labour. Next to zero reason to vote Tory.

I don't think Labour's traditional core voters were ever that left wing or socialist per se. It's just that they worked in heavily unionised industries and it was in their clear economic interest to vote Labour. Once those industries went, and the unions were stripped of their powers, the natural bond had been broken.

You're absolutely correct in that trade unions haven't been as successful in appealing to the working class in the services sectors. I would again suggest that a lot of that is down to the unions having their powers stripped, jobs becoming less secure and many private enterprises refusing to recognise or deal with unions.

Labour hasn't been able to reach these voters, correct. And many seem so disenfranchised by politics and their situation that they end up not voting at all. There doesn't seem to have been anything to replace the emasculation of unions and bring these workers together.