Oxford: History and Economics v Economics and Management

Hi,☺️☺️

I'm struggling to decide between applying for history and Economics, and economics and management at Oxford.
I do think I would enjoy both courses. I'm also thinking of a career in the city, and considering investment banking. However, I do have an interest in law so I'm considering that too.
My a levels are further math, maths, economics and history, and I got 10 9s and 1 grade 8 at GCSE.
Initially I was convinced that e&m was the one for me, but having the lowest acceptance rate out of all Oxford courses, as well as my increase in interest in economic history and history is making the choice really difficult.
I also can't seem to find any history and Econ students at oxford, as their intake is very low (they admit about 20 students a year I think).
Does anyone have any advice, or personal experiences with either course? Would be greatly appreciated X

A few things to consider:

If you look at the admission and interview rates, H&E seems "better." But you should take into account of self-selection. (I guess H&E applicants include many who have a genuine interest in the subjects.) I know someone who sat for TSA and found quite a number of students around him who had applied for E&M. It sounded like quite a number of them were applying to E&M from the perspective of future career, like what you said at the beginning of your post. This is also fine. We all have practical considerations, too.

The question for you will be: Which group of students do you want to study with?
Is your interest or career in IB (right after university) more important?
Which econ curriculum would you enjoy more (they are different--H&E core Econ papers will be similar to PPE's)?

You probably know H&E will also require MAT and the submission of written work.

Obviously, if you do E&M and go to the City right after graduation, your knowledge in finance could become handy straightaway--depending on your job. But doing H&E could be your last chance to do something you enjoy!
My friend knows a QC who told him that a history first degree is a good preparation to become a lawyer.
However, if you intend to go into laws related to finance/business, it is good to have the right preparation and some business experience.
On the other hand, practical work experience and a 1-year MBA would cover a lot of business knowledge needs.

Although I cannot suggest you should do either, I suggestion (1) you put less weight on the admissions/interview rates because the applicant pools are quite different, and (2) whether you do history or management, both would be okay if you want to do law later.

H&E does not require MAT - the required tests are the HAT and TSA.

A few things to consider:

If you look at the admission and interview rates, H&E seems "better." But you should take into account of self-selection. (I guess H&E applicants include many who have a genuine interest in the subjects.) I know someone who sat for TSA and found quite a number of students around him who had applied for E&M. It sounded like quite a number of them were applying to E&M from the perspective of future career, like what you said at the beginning of your post. This is also fine. We all have practical considerations, too.

The question for you will be: Which group of students do you want to study with?
Is your interest or career in IB (right after university) more important?
Which econ curriculum would you enjoy more (they are different--H&E core Econ papers will be similar to PPE's)?

You probably know H&E will also require MAT and the submission of written work.

Obviously, if you do E&M and go to the City right after graduation, your knowledge in finance could become handy straightaway--depending on your job. But doing H&E could be your last chance to do something you enjoy!
My friend knows a QC who told him that a history first degree is a good preparation to become a lawyer.
However, if you intend to go into laws related to finance/business, it is good to have the right preparation and some business experience.
On the other hand, practical work experience and a 1-year MBA would cover a lot of business knowledge needs.

Although I cannot suggest you should do either, I suggestion (1) you put less weight on the admissions/interview rates because the applicant pools are quite different, and (2) whether you do history or management, both would be okay if you want to do law later.

Hi,☺️☺️

I'm struggling to decide between applying for history and Economics, and economics and management at Oxford.
I do think I would enjoy both courses. I'm also thinking of a career in the city, and considering investment banking. However, I do have an interest in law so I'm considering that too.
My a levels are further math, maths, economics and history, and I got 10 9s and 1 grade 8 at GCSE.
Initially I was convinced that e&m was the one for me, but having the lowest acceptance rate out of all Oxford courses, as well as my increase in interest in economic history and history is making the choice really difficult.
I also can't seem to find any history and Econ students at oxford, as their intake is very low (they admit about 20 students a year I think).
Does anyone have any advice, or personal experiences with either course? Would be greatly appreciated X

Hi there,

I haven’t got much to add - @D.Y.’s detailed post pretty much covers everything. I applied to E&M this year and I met only one H&E applicant and then 11 other E&M applicants at the college I interviewed at. Your grades are superb and assuming that you can do enough supercurriculars to further prove your dedication, you can definitely make a competitive application for either course. A few things to consider though:

- If you go for H&E there is a chance they could instead offer you a place for straight History

- E&M has a mix of essays but is also a bit more mathematical; H&E is less mathematical.

- E&M and H&E are both very competitive; statistically E&M is more competitive but there are fewer places for H&E so I definitely wouldn’t recommend going for H&E just because it appears to be easier to get in

At the end of the day, you really do need to pick the course you’d enjoy more. Both would open lots of doors and be fine for IB - although E&M would be a bit better as you do take modules like financial management. Management and History are pretty different - my advice would be to look at the course structure more, and if you still can’t decide, do some further reading into both (for Management at least I know there’s a reading list to help with this). You’d be doing the degree for three years so the most important thing is picking which one you’ll enjoy most! Good luck.

Thank you so much. Such great advice!
The thing is, having looked into the course structures a bit, I do think I'd enjoy both. But I think I'll follow your advice and do a bit of wider reading around management in particular.
In terms of the exams, what sort of prep did you do for the TSA?

The TSA is incredibly important as E&M is so competitive, so I started preparation earlier rather than later. I began light prep in October 2018 and sat the TSA in October 2019. However, for about 6-9 months I just did *very* light prep - I bought two books (one I think was from the Oxbridge Admissions company - not linked to Oxford though - and the other was ‘So You Think You Can Think’) and met roughly once every one or two weeks to go through a few critical thinking questions from these books with a teacher and do some practice TSA essays (as the only essay subject I take is economics). For a good month or two, these meetings were literally my teacher and I trying to understand what critical thinking was and what the question types were!

Then, from roughly February onwards, I did past papers (usually like half a paper per week) and went through questions I got wrong with a teacher. I did a mix of TSA papers and a few BMAT section 1 papers (but would skip the science/long data questions). I wouldn’t time these, or if I did it was just to see if I was getting quicker - I wasn’t strict with it and usually ran over time.

From Summer onwards, I then did full timed papers (to begin with around one every other week, but eventually one a week by September). Once I got back to school, I met once a week with a teacher to go through critical thinking questions that I got wrong (and the essays), and once a week with a different teacher to go through problem solving questions that I got wrong.

The week before, I also made notes (a bit like essay plans?) on key topics that I thought might come up (none of them did, but it was interesting learning about them anyway and still worth doing). Additionally, I repeated one past paper to compare my score and see my progression (just for a bit of a confidence boost really!). For the whole year I also kept up with current affairs, but that goes without saying really - definitely make sure you do!

It sounds like a lot haha but my school is very small and doesn’t often send people to Oxbridge, so I was pretty proactive in preparing early and politely asking my teachers for meetings to help me and go through things. It was also on-and-off prep as I took gaps and sometimes I was away, sometimes the teacher was away etc so don’t feel you need to literally do something every single week - I definitely didn’t! You do need to put time in to get used to the question styles and timings though (in the real thing I unfortunately ran out of time slightly and guessed about 3 questions, but to begin with I would run out of time without answering 10 or so questions, so practice helps!).

Good luck! It is quite enjoyable as the questions themselves are really interesting, but it’s just the timing that makes the whole thing stressful! Still, it is worth taking it seriously and trying your best, as it is a crucial factor in getting an interview.

Edit: sorry this is so long! Didn’t realise I wrote so much, but I hope this helps you! Let me know if you have any other questions.

Wow that sounds like a lot of prep. But thank you, that really helps, as I wasn't really sure how to go about preparing for it.
If you don't mind me asking, how did you go about preparing for your interview?

Thank you so much. Such great advice!
The thing is, having looked into the course structures a bit, I do think I'd enjoy both. But I think I'll follow your advice and do a bit of wider reading around management in particular.
In terms of the exams, what sort of prep did you do for the TSA?

A few things to consider:

If you look at the admission and interview rates, H&E seems "better." But you should take into account of self-selection. (I guess H&E applicants include many who have a genuine interest in the subjects.) I know someone who sat for TSA and found quite a number of students around him who had applied for E&M. It sounded like quite a number of them were applying to E&M from the perspective of future career, like what you said at the beginning of your post. This is also fine. We all have practical considerations, too.

The question for you will be: Which group of students do you want to study with?
Is your interest or career in IB (right after university) more important?
Which econ curriculum would you enjoy more (they are different--H&E core Econ papers will be similar to PPE's)?

You probably know H&E will also require MAT and the submission of written work.

Obviously, if you do E&M and go to the City right after graduation, your knowledge in finance could become handy straightaway--depending on your job. But doing H&E could be your last chance to do something you enjoy!
My friend knows a QC who told him that a history first degree is a good preparation to become a lawyer.
However, if you intend to go into laws related to finance/business, it is good to have the right preparation and some business experience.
On the other hand, practical work experience and a 1-year MBA would cover a lot of business knowledge needs.

Although I cannot suggest you should do either, I suggestion (1) you put less weight on the admissions/interview rates because the applicant pools are quite different, and (2) whether you do history or management, both would be okay if you want to do law later.

A small point of order - HECO students take the same core papers as E&M (and PPE) in economics, with the exception of a compulsory economic history paper for the FHS. All papers that are not economics papers in E&M are management papers - for example accounting is not an economics subject, nor has it ever been. Contrary to popular belief E&M is not "single honours economics with a couple management papers" but is fully a joint honours course (although as with all joint schools at Oxford there is a fair degree of flexibility of how much you can lean into either side).

In fact ALL economics joint schools take the same first year economics paper, and all choose from the same papers in the FHS in economics, of which three are normally the core papers in microeconomics, macroeconomics, and quantitative economics.

The choice for the OP is then really whether they would rather to be doing history or management for the remaining 33-66% of th course (depending how much the lean into the economics side). If they don't really want to take either then it may be better for them to consider Cambridge which has a fully single honours course...

Thanks to @Mona123456 for sharing. It is good to know. Different students, from different backgrounds/schools use different methods.

For TSA, I know a student who spent not much time preparing for it and was interviewed for PPE back in December.
(He already has a large number of other standardized exams to take and applications to write.)

For Part 1, he spent time doing past papers and reviewing the answers--all freely available online.
His feedback to me was that it was useful to read the document that explained about the TSA, so he could know what the exam was looking for. That is not to say, he wants to predict the exam questions, but rather, sometimes he sees different answers that seem valid, but understanding the TSA better helps him understand why some answers are better than others.

I also glance through some exam questions. It seems like it is not a matter of getting the right answers, but getting them fast--via the "smartest way"!

For Part 2 (needed for E&M), I went through some past questions with him. We didn't write down any essays, but, like in a friendly debate, kept challenging one another for ideas, arguments (both pros and cons), etc. Coming up with ideas, formulating an argument, listing factors to support our arguments, linking up the arguments--all were fun and stimulating. He is interested in current affairs, social issues, politics, etc.

Hope this helps some of you. This is just to share how one student prepared for it. There are probably different ways suitable for different people.

Hi,
Thanks for your response, that's a great point.
I am interested in both history and management and that was my main reason against deciding to do pure Econ at Cambridge, so I definitely feel more suited toward the Oxford courses.
I am planning on applying for economic history and economics (or similar) at LSE and so reading more about economic history in prep for that is making me lean towards h&e at the moment, as I do find it really interesting. I also feel like it would make my personal statement more coherent.

Hi, me again!

Just wanted to quickly add a link to a helpful resource for the TSA - this explains some of the question styles for the BMAT but a lot of it is similar and relevant to the TSA (just ignore the data analysis/inference and science questions). It sounds similar to the resource @D.Y. mentioned (may actually be the same thing the PPE-ist used!):

https://www.admissionstesting.org/images/324081-bmat-section-1-question-guide.pdf

Other than that, I also really want to echo what @D.Y. said about LSE. I didn't apply there myself, but know of many bright people who were rejected purely because of their personal statement. LSE are incredibly picky, and want a personal statement 100% tailored to their course, so really do your research into the modules they offer and be very specific and focussed - after writing your personal statement, go through each line and make sure that everything you mentioned links directly to part of LSE's course as explicitly mentioned on their website, or that it links directly to soft skills vital for a historian/economist/management scientist to have. I can't emphasise enough how your personal statement will literally make or break your application. So, I would strongly advise going for either E&M at both Oxford and LSE, or the H&E equivalent at both Unis, otherwise doing a pick and mix will almost immediately disadvantage you.

Anyway, best of luck and feel free to tag me if you have other questions at any point.

Hiya,
(Sorry, I've just seen this, I know you posted a while ago)

Thanks so much for the resource and advice, and hope you're well amidst the current situation :/

How did your application for E&M go?

Although I thought I was certain on H&E, I think my head's been turned towards PPE (just to make it all a bit more complicated), so I've sort of discounted E&M atm and deciding between H&E and PPE. The thing is, I would probably enjoy all 3 courses, so I just want to make sure that whichever one I decide to apply for would be the one that I could most comfortably talk about in an interview, and also would help in a further career (I've decided against law, and am leaning towards city banking or economic policy making).

Hi again,

I’m doing well thank you and currently hold an offer - fingers crossed if Oxford still want me and the calculated grades work out, I’ll be starting there this year.

My advice would be to keep researching into PPE and H&E as you said, think about which degree will make you happier and which you’ll do better at. You’ll need to have a genuine interest (and knowledge/supercurriculars/mindset) to back it up at interviews. Think about, if you were at Oxford, it’s cold and miserable and you’re tired and feeling a bit ill, and you’re surrounded by lots of incredibly bright people and feel very average, which degree would make you want to get out of bed and get to that 9am because you’re genuinely fascinated about those subjects and want to be there?

Keep doing further reading and looking into the course structure, and maybe google history, politics and philosophy interview questions (& continue with TSA prep). Hopefully in time it’ll become clear as you do more and more reading and research which degree will suit you best. Definitely look at core modules and the structure of each course too eg if there’s a couple of core modules that you think you really wouldn’t like, maybe the other course is for you.

Please do feel free to ask me questions if you think I’d be able to give a helpful answer, but for more specific ones it’s definitely worth searching on TSR to find a PPE and H&E offer holder (or even better someone already at Oxford) as they can hopefully provide more clear insights. It’s also worth thinking about how your Oxford decision would affect your other Uni choices.

Good luck with your decision and your application

Edit: regarding future careers, all three would open doors and be impressive. It really depends on the specific job as to which degree would be slightly more helpful (e.g. something requiring lots of writing and analysis may prefer H&E over E&M whereas something requiring debating and presentations may prefer PPE over H&E). If I had to guess though, I’d say PPE is perhaps the most overall prestigious, but very closely followed by (if not on par with) E&M because of the financial knowledge and more direct relevance of the degree to the careers you suggested, then followed by H&E. This is just my opinion though.

Congrats!! That's amazing! Hope it all works out for you x
I'll def take on board what you said, and look into those a bit more.