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28th state of EU or 51st state of USA

I'd much rather be the 28th state of the EU and be one of its most influential, albeit not most committed members, than the 51st state of the USA where we will have no workers or environmental protections. Gov. annoucing we won't be following any EU rules. This should seriously concern people. The way for Trump taking the NHS is being paved and when its push come to shove, Boris will hand it to him on a plate.

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Why do we have to use one? Why can't we be our own country with our own rules? You seem to have written the future before its happened.
Original post by Ferrograd
I'd much rather be the 28th state of the EU and be one of its most influential, albeit not most committed members, than the 51st state of the USA where we will have no workers or environmental protections. Gov. annoucing we won't be following any EU rules. This should seriously concern people. The way for Trump taking the NHS is being paved and when its push come to shove, Boris will hand it to him on a plate.

I’d rather an independent nation than a vassal state to the EU
Original post by AnonymousNoMore
Why do we have to use one? Why can't we be our own country with our own rules? You seem to have written the future before its happened.

Because like it or not, we have always been under the American sphere of influence since WW2 ended. Think back to the Suez crisis. Britain was literally forced to leave Egypt because the Americans controlled the British economy. Britain simply isn't a power anymore, militarily or even economically.
Original post by Wired_1800
I’d rather an independent nation than a vassal state to the EU

So would I, but I'm just warning that under Johnson we will become a vassal state of the USA. And at least in the EU we had a seat in the parliament, do you think doing a trade deal with the USA will allow the UK to have seats in the senate?
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Drewski
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Original post by Ferrograd
do you think doing a trade deal with the USA will allow the UK to have seats in the senate?

Do you know what a trade deal is?
Original post by Drewski
Do you know what a trade deal is?

I'm being theoretical; we had a trade deal with the EU; all 28 countries and of course many others that we didn't have to negotiate with. We got trade deals, and we got representation in the EU for political and economic cooperation. If we do a trade deal in the USA, it will just be the UK and the USA, the USA will have the upper hand etc.

Only other way I can see a fairer trade deal working is if we join NAFTA.
Original post by Ferrograd
Because like it or not, we have always been under the American sphere of influence since WW2 ended. Think back to the Suez crisis. Britain was literally forced to leave Egypt because the Americans controlled the British economy. Britain simply isn't a power anymore, militarily or even economically.

In a sphere of influence is different to literally being controlled. Look at the recent Huawei situation, we defied the US and took our own action.
I agree with the OP though we do not have the option now of being in the EU. We should not become the 51st state in all but name though, and it is a salutary warning that we should campaign to ensure our Prime Minister, a US citizen until only a few years ago, does not take us down that road.
Original post by Ferrograd
So would I, but I'm just warning that under Johnson we will become a vassal state of the USA. And at least in the EU we had a seat in the parliament, do you think doing a trade deal with the USA will allow the UK to have seats in the senate?

Of course not. We don't want a seat in Congress. We just want to trade as an independent nation.
Original post by AnonymousNoMore
In a sphere of influence is different to literally being controlled. Look at the recent Huawei situation, we defied the US and took our own action.

I'll give johnson that, was very surprised, but he is a US puppet.
Original post by AnonymousNoMore
In a sphere of influence is different to literally being controlled. Look at the recent Huawei situation, we defied the US and took our own action.

And from history we all know what happens from being in the "sphere of influence" of larger countries...you either get colonised militarily or economically. USA controls the economy of its backyard (latin america), perhaps the UK will become its latest addition.
Original post by Ferrograd
I'll give johnson that, was very surprised, but he is a US puppet.

I guess we will have to see, but the US is our closest ally so we should probably side with them on some things, as a comprimise to keep relations good.
Original post by AnonymousNoMore
I guess we will have to see, but the US is our closest ally so we should probably side with them on some things, as a comprimise to keep relations good.

I'm fed up of people saying "closest ally", "special relationship", why are we so obsessed with it? The whole special relationship isn't some centuries old thing, its been about for about 40 years now. Spain has no "special relationship" with Mexico or any of its other former subjects. France does has a "special relationship" with its former west african countries; it controls their economies. Italy has no special relationship with its colonies in north and east africa either. The US is a rogue state under Trump, why do we need an "ally"? Economically yes, but no one is going to war with the UK..
Original post by Ferrograd
I'm fed up of people saying "closest ally", "special relationship", why are we so obsessed with it? The whole special relationship isn't some centuries old thing, its been about for about 40 years now. Spain has no "special relationship" with Mexico or any of its other former subjects. France does has a "special relationship" with its former west african countries; it controls their economies. Italy has no special relationship with its colonies in north and east africa either. The US is a rogue state under Trump, why do we need an "ally"? Economically yes, but no one is going to war with the UK..

We need allys for obvious reasons, to maintain our place within the world. If we didn't have any allys we would be dramatically weaker. And it doesn't matter how old the relationship is, and it's more than 40 years. America has the strongest military in the world and I would prefer that we had them as an ally.
why are people jumping to such extremes just because we left the EU? our daily lives won’t change much.
we will not become the 51st state.
the NHS will not be privatised.
Original post by AnonymousNoMore
We need allys for obvious reasons, to maintain our place within the world. If we didn't have any allys we would be dramatically weaker. And it doesn't matter how old the relationship is, and it's more than 40 years. America has the strongest military in the world and I would prefer that we had them as an ally.

Actually, China has the strongest military in the world.

America is declining, as is most of the west. It makes far more sense to align with Russia and China. Russia is on our doorstep, also has nukes, plays a massive role in fighting ISIS, China is also a major economic power.
Original post by watershower
why are people jumping to such extremes just because we left the EU? our daily lives won’t change much.
we will not become the 51st state.
the NHS will not be privatised.

Really.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/02/us-wants-access-to-nhs-in-post-brexit-deal-ambassador-to-uk-says
Original post by AnonymousNoMore
We need allys for obvious reasons, to maintain our place within the world. If we didn't have any allys we would be dramatically weaker. And it doesn't matter how old the relationship is, and it's more than 40 years. America has the strongest military in the world and I would prefer that we had them as an ally.

We should be able to maintain ourselves in the world without being propped up by other countries - at least, according to some people in this thread who beleive we can be fully independent.
Original post by Ferrograd
Actually, China has the strongest military in the world.

America is declining, as is most of the west. It makes far more sense to align with Russia and China. Russia is on our doorstep, also has nukes, plays a massive role in fighting ISIS, China is also a major economic power.

No it doesn’t. America does. By a mile. America out guns every other nation in the world put together military wise (nearly). China has more people but that’s about it military strength wise

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