Further maths for economics (E&M oxford)?

I am in year 12 and currently studying Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Economics, and also doing an economics EPQ. I am going to apply for E&M with Oxford as my first choice (and other top unis like Durham, Warwick, St Andrews) and I was wondering how important it is to have further maths a level. Does everyone doing E&M at Oxford have fm?

At the moment I am not struggling with work load. We have now nearly finished maths a level, meaning if i dropped fm I would just be revising maths a level for a year. Currently I have hardly any frees so would gain so many and could concentrate on physics (my worst a level) and further reading for econ. there's also many essay comps I would like to enter, and I am looking for a prefect role next year and would like to do more research into management.

So, ideally I would drop fm but I don't want to regret it and I don't want it to be the reason I don't get into Oxford (if I don't). Please can someone share their advice. It would be much appreciated

I am in year 12 and currently studying Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Economics, and also doing an economics EPQ. I am going to apply for E&M with Oxford as my first choice (and other top unis like Durham, Warwick, St Andrews) and I was wondering how important it is to have further maths a level. Does everyone doing E&M at Oxford have fm?

At the moment I am not struggling with work load. We have now nearly finished maths a level, meaning if i dropped fm I would just be revising maths a level for a year. Currently I have hardly any frees so would gain so many and could concentrate on physics (my worst a level) and further reading for econ. there's also many essay comps I would like to enter, and I am looking for a prefect role next year and would like to do more research into management.

So, ideally I would drop fm but I don't want to regret it and I don't want it to be the reason I don't get into Oxford (if I don't). Please can someone share their advice. It would be much appreciated

Hi there,

Oxford care slightly less about FM but Warwick and LSE do prefer it. However, you should definitely prioritise getting e.g. 3A* rather than A*A*AA as your predicted grades - quality not quantity is more important. Still, I would advise that FM would be useful and from what you’ve said, if you’re certain on E&M/economics as your degree choice then I’d consider dropping Physics as having FM will help your application to be more competitive - to some extent it is seen as an implicit requisite for economics at top Unis, although E&M is probably the least maths-y out of Cambridge, LSE, Warwick etc.

All that being said - I doubt that everyone would have FM and you realistically, you are better off getting 3A* predicted grades and having more time to do super curriculars, and prep for the TSA, rather than balance another A Level workload. In Year 13 things definitely step up a gear (and further maths does get considerably harder) so even if you’re managing the workload now, bear in mind that it will likely get much more intense.

From what you’ve said, I’d perhaps consider doing FM AS at least in an ideal world if you’re not keen on it. Otherwise, maybe drop Physics and keep going with FM until A2 if you can. Ideally continuing with all 4 would be great of course, but as I’ve already said, it’s better off to do 3 A Levels that you enjoy the most and do them well, and have plenty of time for essay competitions and extra reading etc, rather than take on too much (especially if you hope to be a prefect too).

Best of luck with your application, and let me know if you have any other questions (I currently hold an offer for E&M at Oxford).

Edit: for context I take Maths, FM, Physics and Economics but didn’t do an EPQ. Also, would highly recommend you take the TSA seriously and try and start practising if you haven’t already as that’s quite important in determining who gets an interview.

Idk how this works at ur school. Would it be possible to do further maths with ur fm class, be in a normal maths class and stay in ur econ class so drop physics. I feel like if you were to drop 1 that’s the way to go

Can’t stress how important FM is. It’s hard to get offers from LSE/UCL/Warwick without it (if you’re applying to those also) and although the Oxford course is the least mathsy out of the top econ courses, lots of the successful applicants have FM. There was some FOI data released on this and even for PPE, which is less maths focused than E&M, FM is the 4th most common A-level amongst offer holders.

Try to keep all 4 if possible, and drop the EPQ.

Thank you for this. I will try to keep with further maths as I know I will regret not doing it, but it is an extremely full on timetable, and other people always have many frees in which they can be reviewing and revising work, which I haven't had much time to do now. Do you know whether people have into E&M without further maths. Also, do you think they would notice the fact that I dropped it (if I did) and question it?

You can get into Ox E&M without it, but the issue is, if you don’t get into Ox, you are extremely unlikely to get offers from LSE/UCL/Warwick without FM. Therefore, the next best you’d get are Durham/Andies/Bristol, which are obviously great unis, but they’re not as highly targeted for grad schemes.

Oxford won’t know you dropped FM at the end of y12 unless your teachers put this in your reference.

Frees are actually not too useful anyway - most people just end up talking or getting distracted. Try to keep all 4 and drop the EPQ. You can always drop FM after you get your offers (FM is not an official requirement, so they almost always let offer holders drop it, and quite a few offer holders do drop it because A2 FM is taxing so potentially not worth doing unless it’s an official requirement for a course/you really enjoy it)

Thank you so much for this advice. My school doesn't do AS further maths so it's all or nothing. I think I will continue with my 4 a levels for now, and will make my mind up about further maths once we have done more of the spec. I just don't want to limit my chances of getting into Oxford.
Congratulations on your offer! Which college are you going to? Also, did you do anything specific for the management part of the course to get an offer, and did you mention a fair bit about management as well as economics on your personal statement?

I’ll send you a PM with more detailed answers to those questions. Just want to point out, as @honeydukes01 said FM is pretty important, but I would be careful if you’re trying to play the game and say you’re taking it, then drop it after you have an offer - this isn’t always the case, and I’ve heard that it’s not looked favourably on at all. When you enter that you’re taking 4 full A Levels on UCAS you are legally obliged to take them, unless you email your University and explicitly ask for permission to drop one - bear in mind though that too Unis have every right to say you can’t drop one, and indeed some Unis could even drop your offer on the basis of you taking four or taking FM, in which case they may either not allow you to drop it or could raise your offer. So I would advise against putting it on UCAS then betting on the fact you’ll be able to drop it, as that’s incredibly risky and realistically, top Unis for Econ do require a high degree of mathematical ability. If you took FM it would make your degree a fair bit easier, at least in the first few terms, as FM A Level is taxing as @honeydukes01 pointed out, but it’s incredibly rewarding and would make the Uni transition easier. As others have said, you really need to either continue with all four, or drop Physics. Your EPQ could also be sacrificed if worst comes to worst - personally I think 4 A Levels is hard enough, so unless you can get your EPQ out of the way in Year 12 don’t try and juggle that in Year 13 alongside your A Levels as that’ll be likely too much when you have other priorities to consider.

Feel free to tag/quote me or reply to my PM if you have any other questions.

Just to add: even if the unis say that you can’t drop FM, if it’s one of 4 subjects, your offer won’t be conditional on it. As long as you get A*AA at least in the other 3, you’d have met your offer - even if you get a U in FM, you’d still be fine. The only exception is LSE - they always seem to offer A*AAE, with the E grade being FM.

Thank you so much. I'm not going to drop physics and I will only drop FM if my other subjects are slacking and I will try to keep it at least until I get offers.

Hi there,

Oxford care slightly less about FM but Warwick and LSE do prefer it. However, you should definitely prioritise getting e.g. 3A* rather than A*A*AA as your predicted grades - quality not quantity is more important. Still, I would advise that FM would be useful and from what you’ve said, if you’re certain on E&M/economics as your degree choice then I’d consider dropping Physics as having FM will help your application to be more competitive - to some extent it is seen as an implicit requisite for economics at top Unis, although E&M is probably the least maths-y out of Cambridge, LSE, Warwick etc.

All that being said - I doubt that everyone would have FM and you realistically, you are better off getting 3A* predicted grades and having more time to do super curriculars, and prep for the TSA, rather than balance another A Level workload. In Year 13 things definitely step up a gear (and further maths does get considerably harder) so even if you’re managing the workload now, bear in mind that it will likely get much more intense.

From what you’ve said, I’d perhaps consider doing FM AS at least in an ideal world if you’re not keen on it. Otherwise, maybe drop Physics and keep going with FM until A2 if you can. Ideally continuing with all 4 would be great of course, but as I’ve already said, it’s better off to do 3 A Levels that you enjoy the most and do them well, and have plenty of time for essay competitions and extra reading etc, rather than take on too much (especially if you hope to be a prefect too).

Best of luck with your application, and let me know if you have any other questions (I currently hold an offer for E&M at Oxford).

Edit: for context I take Maths, FM, Physics and Economics but didn’t do an EPQ. Also, would highly recommend you take the TSA seriously and try and start practising if you haven’t already as that’s quite important in determining who gets an interview.

Hi
I have taken maths, business and acccounting as 3 A levels. I know LSE is not possible for me. However for oxford and UCL, they only require maths a level. If i get 3A*, would it be possible for me to go to oxford or UCL. Business and economics are considered narrow but i dont know about business and accounting which i hv taken.
Please reply. I need some help. Give me any suggestions you would like. I am currently in year 12 and about to finish it

Hi there. I didn't apply to UCL myself, but I would suggest that you check the website for each and this should specify whether Business and Accounting would be accepted. If in doubt, your best bet would be to email the Admissions Team of the Universities you're considering if you're unsure, and they should be able to provide the most accurate and up-to-date guidance. If you are applying to a top University for Economics or a similar course, you should be aware that you'll be competing with other applicants who have 3 or 4 A Levels including Economics or Further Maths that are more directly beneficial for those courses. However, if you are on track for 3A*s this provides a good starting point for a strong application - you would also need e.g. strong GCSE results, teacher reference, entrance test scores etc as applications are reviewed holistically. In general, it is advisable to have around 2 ambitious 'stretch' Uni choices, 2 reasonable/realistic Uni choices and 1 safer option. I would encourage you to reach out to the relevant Admissions Teams for clarification and also discuss with a teacher at school to help you make these decisions. Best of luck!

Hi, I'm currently a year 12 student and I do Maths, Economics and History, with a prediction of A*A*A. Initially I was on track to do further maths but I just dropped it last week as I was required to sit the A-level maths exam this year and realised I would mostly likely get an A grade, not an A*. I also feared my other subjects would get neglected in year 13 and my sixth form wouldn't allow me to do further maths AS so I decided to drop it. I'm set on applying for E&M at Oxford and would like any advice for it, if you do have any. I know it'll put me at a disadvantage not doing further maths but I've come to terms with that. What other top band universities would you recommend with those A-levels and predicteds for economics?

Hi im sure you're sick of this thread by now lol but I was wondering if predicted A in FM is okay or if it is not competitive enough for Oxford? My other grades are A* in econ and maths and A*/A in physics (not sure yet)