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UK train prices are scandulous.

Wanted to go from Shenfield to Manningtree on the GEML (Greater Anglia) a distance of a mere 44 miles. For two adults and a child on a train, it would cost £45.

The same family can travel on a 360 mile journey from Berlin to Munich for just £5 more at £51.73.

If the government want less CO2 emissions, they need to make transport cheap because there's no way I'm going to pay that amount for a return journey. Works out at 50p a mile compared to 0.078p a mile for Berlin-Munchen (this is including return)
(edited 4 years ago)

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Reply 1
Avatar for Quady
Quady
20
Original post by Ferrograd
Wanted to go from Shenfield to Manningtree on the GEML (Greater Anglia) a distance of a mere 44 miles. For two adults and a child on a train, it would cost £45.

The same family can travel on a 360 mile journey from Berlin to Munich for just £5 more at £51.73.

If the government want less CO2 emissions, they need to make transport cheap because there's no way I'm going to pay that amount for a return journey. Works out at 50p a mile compared to 0.078p a mile for Berlin-Munchen (this is including return)

£31.90 with railcard.

Either way cheaper than a taxi or buying a car.
Original post by Ferrograd
Wanted to go from Shenfield to Manningtree on the GEML (Greater Anglia) a distance of a mere 44 miles. For two adults and a child on a train, it would cost £45.

The same family can travel on a 360 mile journey from Berlin to Munich for just £5 more at £51.73.

If the government want less CO2 emissions, they need to make transport cheap because there's no way I'm going to pay that amount for a return journey. Works out at 50p a mile compared to 0.078p a mile for Berlin-Munchen (this is including return)

100%. Nationalising all the rail is the best way to make it more affordable for everyone, but the Tories will never do that...
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by Quady
£31.90 with railcard.

Either way cheaper than a taxi or buying a car.


Doesn’t make the prices acceptable. Also ‘cheaper thank buying a car’ is a ridiculous argument.
Original post by Quady
£31.90 with railcard.

Either way cheaper than a taxi or buying a car.

No one just "buys a car" just for a single journey. In the long run, a car is significantly cheaper when you think about what people end up paying for a season ticket that increases every year.
The whole idea of privatisation is supposedly for competition. Yet its hardly competition when all you basically need to do to win a contract is bid the highest amount. It's not as if you have multiple different companies running multiple trains on the same track is it? Its just companies like Greater Anglia holding entire monopolies over the Eastern Region. Like literally, they are the only train operator in most of the east of england apart from a few other minor ones.
Original post by Ferrograd
Wanted to go from Shenfield to Manningtree on the GEML (Greater Anglia) a distance of a mere 44 miles. For two adults and a child on a train, it would cost £45.

The same family can travel on a 360 mile journey from Berlin to Munich for just £5 more at £51.73.

If the government want less CO2 emissions, they need to make transport cheap because there's no way I'm going to pay that amount for a return journey. Works out at 50p a mile compared to 0.078p a mile for Berlin-Munchen (this is including return)


So you criticise somebody for comparing 40 miles to 400...

Do you want to know why our trains appear so expensive? It's because we don't use general taxation to heavily subsidise the trains, in other words the users of trains have to pay for their trains, not everybody else.

I'm also intrigued as to where you're getting this £51.73 from given a little look on DB gives the cost as being about 100 euros just for 1 adult if we aren't looking in advance, and when going for advance bookings the costs become not that dissimilar to the UK for long distance

I also decided to look at a more comparable journey in Germany, between Brunswick and Magdeburg, generally about 18 euros vs £18

Yeah...not so much cheaper after all
Original post by Ferrograd
The whole idea of privatisation is supposedly for competition. Yet its hardly competition when all you basically need to do to win a contract is bid the highest amount. It's not as if you have multiple different companies running multiple trains on the same track is it? Its just companies like Greater Anglia holding entire monopolies over the Eastern Region. Like literally, they are the only train operator in most of the east of england apart from a few other minor ones.

That's exactly why the ECML franchise keeps being nationalised...overbidding does not given you control, it gives you massive costs that lead to the collapse of your franchise despite it being a fundamentally profitable enterprise. If you think you get a franchise and keep it just by bidding the most you really haven't a clue how it works
Original post by Ferrograd
No one just "buys a car" just for a single journey. In the long run, a car is significantly cheaper when you think about what people end up paying for a season ticket that increases every year.


exactly some people pay like £500+ a month for their public transport, with that money you could potentially buy yourself a luxury/decent car and drive to wherever the heck you want
Original post by Ferrograd
The whole idea of privatisation is supposedly for competition. Yet its hardly competition when all you basically need to do to win a contract is bid the highest amount. It's not as if you have multiple different companies running multiple trains on the same track is it? Its just companies like Greater Anglia holding entire monopolies over the Eastern Region. Like literally, they are the only train operator in most of the east of england apart from a few other minor ones.


I hear this argument a lot, and, yes, it is true that it is very difficult to have multiple train operators competing on the same line. However, there are in many instances options other than the train, usually at least one of: the bus, driving, or flying. So, rail often does have to compete - with other modes of transports. Given that railway journeys have gone up quite substantially, it seems to be doing a reasonable job at it.
Original post by Ferrograd
Wanted to go from Shenfield to Manningtree on the GEML (Greater Anglia) a distance of a mere 44 miles. For two adults and a child on a train, it would cost £45.

The same family can travel on a 360 mile journey from Berlin to Munich for just £5 more at £51.73.

If the government want less CO2 emissions, they need to make transport cheap because there's no way I'm going to pay that amount for a return journey. Works out at 50p a mile compared to 0.078p a mile for Berlin-Munchen (this is including return)


If you are concerned about co2 you would be better off driving your family. A full family car beats all other modes if transport per head of co2.
Reply 11
Avatar for Quady
Quady
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Original post by Ferrograd
No one just "buys a car" just for a single journey. In the long run, a car is significantly cheaper when you think about what people end up paying for a season ticket that increases every year.


Why do people who can drive buy season tickets then? Are they idiots?
Reply 12
Avatar for Quady
Quady
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Original post by 1st superstar
exactly some people pay like £500+ a month for their public transport, with that money you could potentially buy yourself a luxury/decent car and drive to wherever the heck you want

Why don't they then? No brainer innit.
Original post by Johnny Tightlips
100%. Nationalising rail is the best way to make it more affordable for everyone, but the Tories will never do that...


The tories have nationalised 2 (from next month) train operators.
Nationalisation doesn't necessarily mean cheaper fares, just gives the government more control to **** it all up.

TfL have recently taken over my local services, it's a complete shambles with higher fares, less seats and the trains are even more unreliable
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by Quady
Why don't they then? No brainer innit.

Uh not everyone can drive?
Reply 15
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Quady
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Original post by 1st superstar
Uh not everyone can drive?

Oh right. So folk who commute by train cant drive. Just seemed to me a lot of people drive to the train station to catch their commuter train.
Yeah so then you become rich making £80000 a year and tax cuts thousands off so you’re basically average and travel and housing bills take all ur hard earned money.
Original post by smithstar01
Doesn’t make the prices acceptable. Also ‘cheaper thank buying a car’ is a ridiculous argument.


He’s not necessarily wrong, I’ve heard of some people actually exceeding the prices of a small car, about 4K in rail fares
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by Ferrograd
Wanted to go from Shenfield to Manningtree on the GEML (Greater Anglia) a distance of a mere 44 miles. For two adults and a child on a train, it would cost £45.

The same family can travel on a 360 mile journey from Berlin to Munich for just £5 more at £51.73.

If the government want less CO2 emissions, they need to make transport cheap because there's no way I'm going to pay that amount for a return journey. Works out at 50p a mile compared to 0.078p a mile for Berlin-Munchen (this is including return)


:frown: I fully agree.....-I wanted to visit a friend near Manchester recently and the walk on fare was prohibitive, but then the ticketing system between the two is different: direct comparisons are difficult as the railways here go on a marketing basis rather than mileage which was the case up until the late sixties ( I believe the Germans still do to a certain extent, but offer more special deals for families, youngsters and groups travelling long distances).

Did you just pay up and go or use a railcard such as a Network Card? This gives you and another named adult one third off at certain off peak times subject to a minimum fare (can't remember off hand exactly what it is ) plus children go for less than half price I think it is.
Just Google in railcards and this should take you to the various options.
Another option is split ticketing where you buy two or more tickets for the same journey. Although we have the most horrendous walk on fares around by doing a bit of homework there are some reasonable deals to be had- but of course these take time to sus out.
I've travelled extensively on the German railways in my younger years and it was a fantastic system but then more subsidised than ours although my German friends moan about it! Train buffs will be interested to know a friend of mine and myself had the privilege of a footplate ride on an oil fired steam 012 Pacific from Rheine: the driver had been a Pow and his fireman was a Liverpool football fanatic with an English girlfriend !
Hope this helps.
(edited 4 years ago)
Original post by LTEcactus
The tories have nationalised 2 (from next month) train operators.
Nationalisation doesn't necessarily mean cheaper fares, just gives the government more control to **** it all up.

TfL have recently taken over my local services, it's a complete shambles with higher fares, less seats and the trains are even more unreliable

Out of 24? I guess they're heading in the right direction...
UK rail fares are the most expensive in Europe. All the other European railways are nationalised.
As opposed to the companies f*cking it up? At least the government can be held accountable. If the company f*cks it all up they just run away.

Which local service is that then? Last I heard TfL doesn't run any rail service except the Tube.
(edited 4 years ago)

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