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Gender affirming surgeries treated as "non essential"; as hospitals prepare for COVID

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Original post by Oxford Mum
That's a really sad story. Nobody could have predicted that.

I mean you could have heeded China's warnings from two months ago. But if you ignore the last two months, yes it came out of nowhere.
Original post by A Rolling Stone
there are millions of people like the OP who genuinely think trans-appeasement should be a priority of our healthcare professionals right now

But the debate isn't about anyone's opinions on trans people or the idea of being trans, just on whether those who are waiting for gender reassignment surgeries etc should still be a priority in the current climate
You're not going to die if you don't get your gender reassignment surgery. It can 100%, definitely wait.
It is non-essential. I have had non-essential surgery postponed too. It was a fair decision.
Reply 44
Original post by Napp
Are you really trying to score odd political points over this? Despicable.


Everything becomes political. It’s something you can add to the negative list of Boris and the government.
Your Chinese lesson for the day, using actual Mainland Chinese phrases and for use when talking to the OP:
武汉病毒 - Wǔhàn bìngdú - Wuhan virus
武汉肺炎- Wǔhàn fèiyán - Wuhan pneumonia
五毛 - Wǔmáo - CCP online shill, member of the 50 cent party (五毛党)
Yeah? My appointment with a Neurologist I have been waiting to see since December has been delayed until August!

My life is affected daily by this chronic disease. Everyone has to wait. Trans people have to wait. It won't kill them.
Reply 47
Original post by squeakysquirrel
So as I understand it..... we have a list of patients that we discuss each week and their outcomes. They appear to be grading according to severity. So I have one patient who has an incompletely excised cancer - normally she would get an operation within a couple of weeks to remove it. She has been told that she will have to wait until after the Covid19 has died down. She is unlikely to die of cancer but if that was me I would want it done like now. I think they will probably do the most severe, but it is the bed crisis. The older patients are more likely to need an intensive care bed post operatively. They are also at more risk of contracting the virus because - old, cancer, multiple comorbidities etc. So it is a fine balancing act - what is more likely to kill them - virus or cancer. Need the wisdom of Solomon for this.

A couple of years ago I had a patient whose cancer was curable. He decided to go on a cruise that he had already booked - couple of months. By the time he came back he was palliative - still horrifies me that one.

She’s unlikely to die of cancer as of now, by time it comes to it who knows? God forbid but time isn’t a game when it comes to these things. We should have separate resources for corona, there’s no need for specialist hospitals to reallocate resources. Most people just need supervision, drips and basic care, we should be deploying temporary hospitals like China did.

People in the U.K. really need to wake up now and make things change, if this isn’t a tipping point that exposes our corrupt and pathetic government then our country is more dead than it’s people’s brain. How can a country like the U.K. be having to make these choices? Look at Germany, they just went through a recession and are still in top form

Thanks for your great work! Hope you’re taking it easy and your patients stay safe and healthy :smile:
Original post by Ascend
I think it's time for TSR to have an AngryPangolin account to go head-to-head with the wu mao.

ikr its like really obvious everything he post is made to just agitate
It is non-essential???
Reply 50
Original post by AngeryPenguin
I mean you could have heeded China's warnings from two months ago. But if you ignore the last two months, yes it came out of nowhere.

i mean, you could have stopped eating snakes and bats years ago.
Of course this is going to be upsetting for those suffering from gender dysphoria, but these are not the only surgeries being cancelled. Ultimately the coronavirus, being such an urgent threat to public health, has to take priority.
Reply 52
Original post by AngeryPenguin
I mean you could have heeded China's warnings from two months ago.

Li Wenliang is spinning in his grave.
If anything, evidence shows that negative effects caused by Gender Dysphoria stay at the same rate post-surgery, so there's no reason to consider gender reassignment surgery as emergency treatment.
Original post by Joel 96
If anything, evidence shows that negative effects caused by Gender Dysphoria stay at the same rate post-surgery, so there's no reason to consider gender reassignment surgery as emergency treatment.


Given it absolutely doesn't, the evidence is comprehensive in that gender transition is effective I'd suggest you cite your claims

Seem to have accidentally repped you twice there - my bad, I misclicked and didn't mean to rep you but to quote you.

As regards the statement, my thoughts on the transgender debate are that:
If a lot of your argument is ”cis people are scum” ”xyz character is a pansexual aromantic demigirl otherkin” and ”kill all TERFs” then most people will ignore you. If you want to be taken seriously as a movement and not treated like raging bigots, don't act like it towards people with a different opinion on whether people with penises should share a changing room with teenage girls.
Original post by LiberOfLondon
Seem to have accidentally repped you twice there - my bad, I misclicked and didn't mean to rep you but to quote you.

As regards the statement, my thoughts on the transgender debate are that:
If a lot of your argument is ”cis people are scum” ”xyz character is a pansexual aromantic demigirl otherkin” and ”kill all TERFs” then most people will ignore you. If you want to be taken seriously as a movement and not treated like raging bigots, don't act like it towards people with a different opinion on whether people with penises should share a changing room with teenage girls.


I mean, that's no-ones actual argument though? "Character X is Y" is a common thing amongst any group that are terminally underrepresented in media and generally only represented as a joke - look at every 90s and 2000s sitcom, they always had an episode with a trans character and those characters were invariably played as jokes where their transness was the beginning and end of their characterisation. Given that dearth of representation I can hardly blame, for instance, trans guys projecting onto Spiderman. As for remarks like "cis people are scum", while they don't exactly help win people over to supporting trans rights, I think you've got to look where the power is in that dynamic and whether "cis people are scum" holds any power or does any harm to cis people, and it's not on the same level as similar remarks directed at trans people instead


I looked at about 10 of the studies before giving up. I couldn't get access to some of them, but most were either ambiguous or had no comment in regards to the suicide rate post-surgery. I appreciate that you're citing, but can you cite a specific study that at least shows a decrease in the suicidal rate post-surgery?

And sure. First off, the June 2016 “Proposed Decision Memo for Gender Dysphoria and Gender Reassignment Surgery” concluded that,

"Based on a thorough review of the clinical evidence available at this time, there is not enough evidence to determine whether gender reassignment surgery improves health outcomes for Medicare beneficiaries with gender dysphoria. There were conflicting (inconsistent) study results of the best designed studies, some reported benefits while others reported harms.".

But the actual study I'm referring to is the most largest and popular study that was conducted in Sweden regarding the after-effects of sexual reassignement surgery. In fact, it's pretty depressing. Most sex reassignment studies wrap up after a few months/years, but this one showed that results didn't become apparent until after 10 years. The results were,

"The overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher during follow-up (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 1.8–4.3) than for controls of the same birth sex, particularly death from suicide (aHR 19.1; 95% CI 5.8–62.9). Sex-reassigned persons also had an increased risk for suicide attempts (aHR 4.9; 95% CI 2.9–8.5) and psychiatric inpatient care (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 2.0–3.9). Comparisons with controls matched on reassigned sex yielded similar results. Female-to-males, but not male-to-females, had a higher risk for criminal convictions than their respective birth sex controls."

Concluding that,

"Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group."
Now I understand why you are so disliked.
Original post by Joel 96
I looked at about 10 of the studies before giving up. I couldn't get access to some of them, but most were either ambiguous or had no comment in regards to the suicide rate post-surgery. I appreciate that you're citing, but can you cite a specific study that at least shows a decrease in the suicidal rate post-surgery?

And sure. First off, the June 2016 “Proposed Decision Memo for Gender Dysphoria and Gender Reassignment Surgery” concluded that,

"Based on a thorough review of the clinical evidence available at this time, there is not enough evidence to determine whether gender reassignment surgery improves health outcomes for Medicare beneficiaries with gender dysphoria. There were conflicting (inconsistent) study results of the best designed studies, some reported benefits while others reported harms.".

But the actual study I'm referring to is the most largest and popular study that was conducted in Sweden regarding the after-effects of sexual reassignement surgery. In fact, it's pretty depressing. Most sex reassignment studies wrap up after a few months/years, but this one showed that results didn't become apparent until after 10 years. The results were,

"The overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher during follow-up (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 1.8–4.3) than for controls of the same birth sex, particularly death from suicide (aHR 19.1; 95% CI 5.8–62.9). Sex-reassigned persons also had an increased risk for suicide attempts (aHR 4.9; 95% CI 2.9–8.5) and psychiatric inpatient care (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 2.0–3.9). Comparisons with controls matched on reassigned sex yielded similar results. Female-to-males, but not male-to-females, had a higher risk for criminal convictions than their respective birth sex controls."

Concluding that,

"Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group."



Of course you're citing Dhejne. I'd recommend looking at what the lead author has to say on these interpretations of their study: https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/6q3e8v/science_ama_series_im_cecilia_dhejne_a_fellow_of/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

She's quite clear that the study was never intended to determine the efficacy of transition as a treatment and that any attempts to view it through that lens is a distortion of the data. As for suicidality in general, it's not just about surgery, it's about acceptance, and those that have a supportive environment reduce all types of harm (as the series of reviews I linked also show)

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