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maths iteration homework

Consider sequences a1, a2, a3, . . . of positive real numbers with a1 = 1 and such that an+1 + an = (an+1 an)^2 for each positive integer n. How many possible values can a2017 take?

I am really confused on this question, I have tried to find out what a2 is, but I got (a2)^2-2a2. I then found out what was being added to each term of the sequence ( I got (a2)^2-2a2-1 ) Finally i substituted it into the sequence to get a2017 = 2016(a2)^2 - 4032a2 - 2015. However, because I can't find a value for a2, I can't find out what a2017 is. If someone could please tell me what I have done wrong or how I can find other values, it would be great.

Thank you.
Reply 1
Original post by Hannahd2003
Consider sequences a1, a2, a3, . . . of positive real numbers with a1 = 1 and such that an+1 + an = (an+1 an)^2 for each positive integer n. How many possible values can a2017 take?

I am really confused on this question, I have tried to find out what a2 is, but I got (a2)^2-2a2. I then found out what was being added to each term of the sequence ( I got (a2)^2-2a2-1 ) Finally i substituted it into the sequence to get a2017 = 2016(a2)^2 - 4032a2 - 2015. However, because I can't find a value for a2, I can't find out what a2017 is. If someone could please tell me what I have done wrong or how I can find other values, it would be great.

Thank you.

The hard way would be to expand the RHS, rearrange so that you have a quadratic in an+1 (treating an as a constant), and solving using the formula or completing the square. The easier way would be to put a1 = 1 in the equation and solve for a2. This would give you a2 + 1 = (a2 - 1)2, which is pretty straightforward to solve.

Despite the unusual way that this is given in, it has been set up so that the sequence is quite well behaved.
Original post by Hannahd2003
Consider sequences a1, a2, a3, . . . of positive real numbers with a1 = 1 and such that an+1 + an = (an+1 an)^2 for each positive integer n. How many possible values can a2017 take?

I am really confused on this question, I have tried to find out what a2 is, but I got (a2)^2-2a2. I then found out what was being added to each term of the sequence ( I got (a2)^2-2a2-1 ) Finally i substituted it into the sequence to get a2017 = 2016(a2)^2 - 4032a2 - 2015. However, because I can't find a value for a2, I can't find out what a2017 is. If someone could please tell me what I have done wrong or how I can find other values, it would be great.

Thank you.


You can expand an+1+an=(an+1an)2a_{n+1} + a_n = (a_{n+1} - a_n)^2 into the form

an+12(2an+1)an+1+(an2an)=0a_{n+1}^2 - (2a_n + 1)a_{n+1} + (a_n^2 - a_n) = 0

which, if you solve, yields

an+1=2an+1±8an+12a_{n+1} = \dfrac{2a_n + 1 \pm \sqrt{8a_n + 1}}{2}

You're told that a1=1a_1 = 1.

So, a2=3±32a_2 = \dfrac{3 \pm 3}{ 2 } hence a2{0,3}a_2 \in \{ 0, 3\}.

What about a3a_3 ?

Can you spot the pattern ?
Reply 3
Original post by RDKGames
You can expand an+1+an=(an+1an)2a_{n+1} + a_n = (a_{n+1} - a_n)^2 into the form

an+12(2an+1)an+1+(an2an)=0a_{n+1}^2 - (2a_n + 1)a_{n+1} + (a_n^2 - a_n) = 0

which, if you solve, yields

an+1=2an+1±8an+12a_{n+1} = \dfrac{2a_n + 1 \pm \sqrt{8a_n + 1}}{2}

You're told that a1=1a_1 = 1.

So, a2=3±32a_2 = \dfrac{3 \pm 3}{ 2 } hence a2{0,3}a_2 \in \{ 0, 3\}.

What about a3a_3 ?

Can you spot the pattern ?

So, if a1 has 1 value, a2 has 2 values, a3 has 4 values... So the number of values equals 2n-2, so if n=2017, the number of values is 4032?
Original post by Hannahd2003
So, if a1 has 1 value, a2 has 2 values, a3 has 4 values... So the number of values equals 2n-2, so if n=2017, the number of values is 4032?

Did you calculate a3 values explicitly, or are you guessing that it has 4?
Reply 5
Original post by RDKGames
Did you calculate a3 values explicitly, or are you guessing that it has 4?

I just guessed, but I think that I may need to work it out and draw some sort of diagram?
Original post by Hannahd2003
I just guessed, but I think that I may need to work it out and draw some sort of diagram?

Yeah working it out is usually a better idea than guessing when you're doing maths ...
Reply 7
So, if a1 = 1 and a2 = 0 or 3, is it possible for a3 to equal 1 or 0?
Original post by Hannahd2003
So, if a1 = 1 and a2 = 0 or 3, is it possible for a3 to equal 1 or 0?

Why wouldn't it be?
Reply 9
Original post by RDKGames
Why wouldn't it be?

Because an arithmetic sequence goes up/down by the same number each time, so if the sequence goes 1,0... It goes down by one each time so the third term couldn't be 0. Just a thought.
Original post by Hannahd2003
Because an arithmetic sequence goes up/down by the same number each time, so if the sequence goes 1,0... It goes down by one each time so the third term couldn't be 0. Just a thought.

It is definitely not an arithmetic sequence. You should refer to the definition of what an arithmetic sequence is.
Original post by Hannahd2003
So, if a1 = 1 and a2 = 0 or 3, is it possible for a3 to equal 1 or 0?


Perhaps worth commenting that the sequence is of positive real numbers, so 0 is not acceptable. Also, if 1 and 0 are your only choices for a3, then you're gone wrong somewhere.
Original post by ghostwalker
Perhaps worth commenting that the sequence is of positive real numbers, so 0 is not acceptable. Also, if 1 and 0 are your only choices for a3, then you're gone wrong somewhere.

a3 = 1, 0 and 6 but if 0 doesn't class as a positive number then it can only be 1 and 6. That helps a lot, thank you.
So I have now realised that all of the numbers are triangular, so I have used gauss' formula to find out the 2017th triangular number (which was 2035153) and then I divided it by 2017 to get the number of values as 1009.
Original post by Hannahd2003
So I have now realised that all of the numbers are triangular, so I have used gauss' formula to find out the 2017th triangular number (which was 2035153) and then I divided it by 2017 to get the number of values as 1009.

Agree with your final answer.
Reply 15
Original post by Hannahd2003
So I have now realised that all of the numbers are triangular, so I have used gauss' formula to find out the 2017th triangular number (which was 2035153) and then I divided it by 2017 to get the number of values as 1009.

Just to point out now you've got the answer...you didn't need to work out that large triangular number - since the formula is (n/2)(n + 1) and you're dividing by n again (in this case 2017) you just needed to work out (1/2) (2018) = 1009 :smile:
Original post by davros
Just to point out now you've got the answer...you didn't need to work out that large triangular number - since the formula is (n/2)(n + 1) and you're dividing by n again (in this case 2017) you just needed to work out (1/2) (2018) = 1009 :smile:

That's much easier, thank you

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