Forensic psychiatry or science

My undergraduate degree is in Forensic Chemistry (so Forensic Science but with a couple of chemistry modules thrown in) and I'm currently doing an MSc in Forensic Psychology whilst working in a prison. If you want to go into the analytical, science-y side of forensics then you'll most likely end up working in a lab rather than at a crime scene. Actual CSI jobs are relatively uncommon and very competitive due to the high level of applicants.

Hi,

I am a trainee clinical psychologist, and previously worked as assistant psychologist in a prison, so might be able to help with the psychology side of things. What would you like to know?

Greg

Forensic psychology is not forensic psychiatry; the latter is a subspecialisation of the medical specialty psychiatry, and requires a medical degree. The former is a subdiscipline of psychology, for which you would need a psychology degree. You can become a "forensic scientist" with a range of science degrees, potentially including but not limited to chemistry, biomedical sciences, biology, etc. You don't need to do a specific degree in forensic science (and there may be benefits in not doing so, since as above the field is heavily oversaturated and not really a growth sector, so having a more general science degree enables you to apply to those roles but also to other positions outside the field if you aren't immediately able to go into that area).

In general I would recommend focusing on doing a more "general" undergrad course (e.g. depending on which route you want to go, psychology or a science course in chemistry or the biological sciences broadly), and then do a specialised masters in the "forensic" side of the field if that is what you want to pursue. This keeps open the possibility of the forensic sector (either with or without the masters), as well as giving you a range of other options in case your interests shift, or if you aren't able to immediately find a job in that sector when you graduate.

Omggg thank you so much for telling me this! So if I was to go into an apprenticeship for psychology what would I do?

Heyyy, that’s so cool! I wanted to know how easy it was to find a job, whether you went to uni or did an apprenticeship and how you cope with distressing events, also what it’s like in prison

Since TSR saw fit to delete my post while I was writing it, the following may be somewhat terse (by my standards anyway)...

I'm not aware of any specifically psychology oriented apprenticeships in existence; you will need to look to see what is available. Psychology is in general an academic field, not a vocation necessarily. The vocational side of psychology is to my understanding mainly (or perhaps just) clinical psychology, for which (to my knowledge) you must do a BPS accredited psychology degree (either an undergraduate degree or a "conversion" masters course, with BPS accreditation in either case), then a DClinPsy. The DClinPsy is very competitive and many successful applicants will not only have a BPS accredited undergrad or masters course, but additionally a specialised taught or research masters and wealth of clinical experience. @Noodlzzz may be able to advise on clinical psychology more.
I don't know how much forensic and clinical psychology overlap, if at all. Neither have much if any relation to the much less clearly defined field of "forensic science" which is really just a catch-all term referring to any one doing scientific analyses that may end up being used as evidence in court proceedings. Forensic science itself does not refer to the people who go to crime scenes and take pictures of things and collect evidence - those are law enforcement professionals known as SOCOs (scenes of crime officers). As with most police roles I imagine no degree is necessary to (eventually) become a SOCO and you could just apply as a school leaver to a police force in principle (in practice they may expect more experience in other professional capacities first) and work your way up to that role.

Essentially you are considering at least three and possibly four entirely different career routes, all with just a vague relation due to the forensic aspect of it (which just means more or less relating to legal proceedings). That is, psychology (possibly clinical vs forensic psychology), science, or policing. I would suggest you first figure out which of those three you want to pursue, then work on moving towards the forensic aspect of each area as applicable.

Just to say that it is any practitioner psychologist (clinical, educational, counselling, forensic, occupational, health, sports - I think that's it!) where you need the accredited undergrad/postgrad conversion

There are 2-3 steps in becoming a practitioner psychologist

1. Complete an accredited psychology undergrad degree/postgrad conversion
(2. Complete work experience to get accepted onto the course - I'm not sure what the expectations are for all courses, especially the unfunded ones)
3. EITHER Complete the qualifying (i.e. accredited) doctorate (clinical, educational, counselling and some forensic courses AFAIK)
OR
a. Complete the accredited masters (forensic, occupational, health, sports AFAIK) AND
b. Complete Stage 2 training (this requires you to get a job as a trainee for 2 years)

Given confidentiality issues, I can't see there being an apprenticeship model for getting a psychology degree alongside working, especially when that degree is not a qualifying degree in itself

Psychiatrists would obviously involve a medical degree (undergraduate or grad entry) and then specialise after foundation years in psychiatry

Since TSR saw fit to delete my post while I was writing it, the following may be somewhat terse (by my standards anyway)...

I'm not aware of any specifically psychology oriented apprenticeships in existence; you will need to look to see what is available. Psychology is in general an academic field, not a vocation necessarily. The vocational side of psychology is to my understanding mainly (or perhaps just) clinical psychology, for which (to my knowledge) you must do a BPS accredited psychology degree (either an undergraduate degree or a "conversion" masters course, with BPS accreditation in either case), then a DClinPsy. The DClinPsy is very competitive and many successful applicants will not only have a BPS accredited undergrad or masters course, but additionally a specialised taught or research masters and wealth of clinical experience. @Noodlzzz may be able to advise on clinical psychology more.

I don't know how much forensic and clinical psychology overlap, if at all. Neither have much if any relation to the much less clearly defined field of "forensic science" which is really just a catch-all term referring to any one doing scientific analyses that may end up being used as evidence in court proceedings. Forensic science itself does not refer to the people who go to crime scenes and take pictures of things and collect evidence - those are law enforcement professionals known as SOCOs (scenes of crime officers). As with most police roles I imagine no degree is necessary to (eventually) become a SOCO and you could just apply as a school leaver to a police force in principle (in practice they may expect more experience in other professional capacities first) and work your way up to that role.

Essentially you are considering at least three and possibly four entirely different career routes, all with just a vague relation due to the forensic aspect of it (which just means more or less relating to legal proceedings). That is, psychology (possibly clinical vs forensic psychology), science, or policing. I would suggest you first figure out which of those three you want to pursue, then work on moving towards the forensic aspect of each area as applicable.

Thank you for this, I am however kind of stressed (I get stressed out Easily haaha) and slightly confused. So you are basically saying that I should go into clinical psychology then do a masters on the forensic side? I have left it very late to research and I am so behind in lessons due to mental health issues so this really helps. I don’t think university is for me, very hard and I don’t know if I could keep up with the work that’s why I would rather a apprenticeship but if uni is the only way I will try.

No sorry it's an EITHER/OR - you can either train to be a forensic psychologist or a clinical psychologist. Some forensic settings (e.g. prisons) may also employ clinical psychologists, but you wouldn't have to qualify separately.

You could do a distance course (e.g. through the Open University) if you wanted to do that instead

Since TSR saw fit to delete my post while I was writing it, the following may be somewhat terse (by my standards anyway)...

I'm not aware of any specifically psychology oriented apprenticeships in existence; you will need to look to see what is available. Psychology is in general an academic field, not a vocation necessarily. The vocational side of psychology is to my understanding mainly (or perhaps just) clinical psychology, for which (to my knowledge) you must do a BPS accredited psychology degree (either an undergraduate degree or a "conversion" masters course, with BPS accreditation in either case), then a DClinPsy. The DClinPsy is very competitive and many successful applicants will not only have a BPS accredited undergrad or masters course, but additionally a specialised taught or research masters and wealth of clinical experience. @Noodlzzz may be able to advise on clinical psychology more.

I don't know how much forensic and clinical psychology overlap, if at all. Neither have much if any relation to the much less clearly defined field of "forensic science" which is really just a catch-all term referring to any one doing scientific analyses that may end up being used as evidence in court proceedings. Forensic science itself does not refer to the people who go to crime scenes and take pictures of things and collect evidence - those are law enforcement professionals known as SOCOs (scenes of crime officers). As with most police roles I imagine no degree is necessary to (eventually) become a SOCO and you could just apply as a school leaver to a police force in principle (in practice they may expect more experience in other professional capacities first) and work your way up to that role.

Essentially you are considering at least three and possibly four entirely different career routes, all with just a vague relation due to the forensic aspect of it (which just means more or less relating to legal proceedings). That is, psychology (possibly clinical vs forensic psychology), science, or policing. I would suggest you first figure out which of those three you want to pursue, then work on moving towards the forensic aspect of each area as applicable.

Since there’s a lot of competition do you think I should do clinical psychology and then study masters In Forensic psychology in more detail? What is a distance course aswell?

Thank you guys very much for your advice! From here I will research both forensic and clinical psychology and decide, however I don’t just want to pick 1 thing for the rest of my life you know and I think the school system is flawed in this way

If you know you definitely want to work in psychology but aren't sure which area, stick with a straight Psychology BSc for now. You can then specialise in either clinical or forensic psychology later on.