AP-NORC poll: Nearly all in US back criminal justice reform

Do you agree that reform in the USA and the UK is the way forward?

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You really need to actually post these supposed polls instead of just making wild claims.

And why are you conflating the UK and USA in terms of this when they are clearly not even remotely similar?

Reply 2

username1148663

Original post by Napp

You really need to actually post these supposed polls instead of just making wild claims.

And why are you conflating the UK and USA in terms of this when they are clearly not even remotely similar?

Because it suits his belief system.

Reply 3

mgi

Original post by paul514

Because it suits his belief system.

Everyone has a "belief system "! Yours may be different to mine! And don't assume that Napp has no "belief system " that he sticks to regardless! He can also easily look up the results of that poll. And for him to assume that UK and USA are not "remotely similar " on issues of race is palpably ridiculous, right?

(edited 3 years ago)

Reply 4

mgi

Further details for the open minded
http://www.apnorc.org/projects/Pages/Widespread-Desire-for-Policing-and-Criminal-Justice-Reform.aspx
Clearly also the UK has its own issues with institutional racism- hence BLM protests.

(edited 3 years ago)

Reply 5

Napp

Original post by mgi

And don't assume that Napp has no "belief system " that he sticks to regardless!

Ones belief system is very simple here; 1) That what ever you say is usually rubbish, 2) You're a hypocrite (complaining others dont source their material when you never do).

He can also easily look up the results of that poll.

I don't understand how you can't grasp the eyewateringly simply concept that if you make a claim YOU back it up. It is on no one else to substantiate you.

And for him to assume that UK and USA are not "remotely similar " on issues of race is palpably ridiculous, right?

Only for someone as patently ignorant as yourself maybe :lol:

Your grasp of British and American history/sociology/politics being extremely troubling.

Reply 6

mgi

Original post by Napp

Ones belief system is very simple here; 1) That what ever you say is usually rubbish, 2) You're a hypocrite (complaining others dont source their material when you never do).

I don't understand how you can't grasp the eyewateringly simply concept that if you make a claim YOU back it up. It is on no one else to substantiate you.

Only for someone as patently ignorant as yourself maybe :lol:

Your grasp of British and American history/sociology/politics being extremely troubling.

No. Your innexplicable angerfeeds into your insults. Let's not pretend that you are a neutral objective poster!
And you were given the details for the poll if you ever wanted to easily look it up. But you are more interested in being insulting which bothers me not one bit.
Institutional racism in the UK-does it have a history ?yes- eg. the MacPherson report which came out years ago after the racist murder of Stephen Lawrence, found that the Metropolitan Police were Institutionally racist. It is very easy for you to verify what this report said.
I publish a lot of sources on my posts anyway.
Your comments rarely include any sources or data anyway- just your anecdotal opinions which i must say i find quite unconvincing.

(edited 3 years ago)

Reply 7

Napp

Original post by mgi

The irony of you accuisng people of being 'insulting'...
I never claimed to be 'neutral'. Just as you most certainly are neither neutral, objective or informed.

Institutional racism in the UK-does it have a history ?yes- eg. the MacPherson report which came out years ago after the racist murder of Stephen Lawrence, found that the Metropolitan Police were Institutionally racist. It is very easy for you to verify what this report said.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this but that was quite some time ago :wink:

.
Equally, still doesn't make America comparable to the UK.

I publish a lot of sources on my posts anyway.

I know it's hard for you but try not to lie quite so much.

Your comments rarely include any sources or data anyway- just your anecdotal opinions which i must say i find quite unconvincing.

Pot meet kettle :rofl:

You can find facts as unconvincing as you like but given your odd wee mind wonderings on these matters are almost universally wron you really are in no position to comment on others.
Like your ignorant assertion that Africans didnt engage in the slave trade - ignorance of the worst sort.

Reply 8

mgi

Original post by Napp

The irony of you accuisng people of being 'insulting'...
I never claimed to be 'neutral'. Just as you most certainly are neither neutral, objective or informed.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this but that was quite some time ago :wink:

.
Equally, still doesn't make America comparable to the UK.

I know it's hard for you but try not to lie quite so much.

Pot meet kettle :rofl:

Your rages are clouding your judgement! I take it none of these allegations of yours are going to be quoted from the actual sources? and did you say something about lying and pots calling kettles black? lol. You of all people?? Of course, you could not claim to be neutral obviously!
Why don't you go and read the poll instead of referring to my alluring personality.
Oh and another historical event for you: There was a man named Danny Thomas, a black usa army veteran. He was out walking with his pregnant wife in the white suburbs of Warren. The couple were tracked , racially insulted and had stones and bottles thrown at them by a gang of white youths. Thomas was shot dead and his wife miscarried on the spot. Police arrested 2 people. The others walked free when the traumatised wife coud not identify them in a police line up. This added to the distrust of the black community not just regarding law enforcement but also how returning black war veterans were being disrespected. What year was this? 1967, the year before MLK was assassinated. So, the 2020, Floyd incident is not the first law enforcement issue by any means, between the black communities and the police!
So if you say you know history and its modern day contexts, i see little evidence of it from you.

Reply 9

Drewski

Why are you using a poll about the US to argue for change in the UK?

Reply 10

mgi

Original post by Drewski

Why are you using a poll about the US to argue for change in the UK?

I am not. I was just challenging the idea that UK and USA don't have some racial discrimination themes in common.

Reply 11

vapordave

Debate & Current Affairs Helper

Original post by mgi

I am not. I was just challenging the idea that UK and USA don't have some racial discrimination themes in common.

Assuming that they're the same is a dangerous assumption.

Reply 12

Drewski

Original post by mgi

I am not. I was just challenging the idea that UK and USA don't have some racial discrimination themes in common.

Your thread title relates directly to a poll about American attitudes.
Then your post asks;

Original post by mgi

Do you agree that reform in the USA and the UK is the way forward?

You're directly correlating UK attitudes to that poll.

Why?

Reply 13

mgi

Original post by Drewski

Your thread title relates directly to a poll about American attitudes.
Then your post asks;

You're directly correlating UK attitudes to that poll.

Why?

Because i believe that both countries have issues regarding racism directed at their black populations, which i think is what the BLM movement in the UK was also arguing and evidenced by the significant BLM protests we saw in the UK recently.

Reply 14

londonmyst

In relation to Britain, it depends what type of criminal justice reform you have in mind and for what reason.
For several years I've been discussing the need for a re-calibration of the criminal justice system to focus on issuing serious precedents with proper sentences to the most dangerous, horrifying and habitual of criminal offenders.
Sending a crystal clear message to all that "crime does not pay" in Britain.
Plus emphasising the spirit of magna carta; ensuring that no criminal can 'play act', lie, bluff, otherwise con or buy their way out of British justice.
Regardless of how wealthy, good looking or skilled at performing in the courtroom they are.

Along with firm and clear precedents that are honest so that all "life means life" crimes are so, until the conviction is overturned or ruled unsafe.
Also making the vilest of criminals liable for their actions, the costs of bring them to trial and compensating their victims/deceased victims next of kin.
An end to national disgraces like the unduly lenient sentences issued to: Ruby Thomas, that pair of thugs from britain first handed minuscule sentences for vile crime sprees, organised crime gangs bringing misery to regions of england/scotland&northern ireland and the predatory paedophile whose habitual criminality ruined my uncle's life.

Policy changes to prevent all criminal court judges from routinely refusing to issue the usual imprisonment sentence to a female co-defendant while imprisoning all the male co-defendants in accordance with the usual sentencing guidelines convicted on the same charges- with the disparity solely due to biological sex.
All defendants with carer/voluntary responsibilities for vulnerable individuals, single parents of underage children, professional carers or working in roles of crucial importance to the national interest- should equally have such relevant factors considered at sentencing.

Plus removing the incentive for career criminals to accept responsibility at court for mass crimes that they did not commit, have no knowledge of and alibis proving they could not possibly have committed the crime due to being elsewhere when the crimes were committed.
The police and courts must no longer be involved in this disgraceful practice, which exists due to mutual convenience for clearing police unsolved petty-moderate crime logbooks and substantially reducing jail time for dishonest career criminals.

To recreate a criminal justice policy that focuses upon safeguarding the law abiding, assisting the innocent survivors of devastating crimes to rebuild their lives and prioritising the nation's public order-public safety and national security.
Proper incarceration sentences issued to hate criminals, violent offenders whose crimes involved the use of weapons to injure, paedophiles with multiple convictions for sexual offences/child porn, religious cranks, loan sharks, pimps, gangsters making a fortune from crime, psychos and serial offenders.
While adequately handling lower level felons who are not sexual deviants or predators whose violence has caused serious injury.
Those minor bad apples who have an obvious tendency inclining them towards unlawful antisocial elements but are likely to be convinced to desist by long terms of community service that replace their leisure time and large fines that are a substantial source of personal inconvenience.

Reply 15

Gundabad(good)

Original post by Napp

You really need to actually post these supposed polls instead of just making wild claims.

And why are you conflating the UK and USA in terms of this when they are clearly not even remotely similar?