The Student Room Group

Mothers defending their city against Trump thugs

Trump has sent militarised Homeland Security police to Portland OR, allegedly to deal with supposed militants. In practise they have been terrorising the city, carrying out random arrests and internments without charge and beating people in the streets.

Now Portland's mothers are forming defensive human female barriers to try to stop them.
https://twitter.com/MrOlmos/status/1285094452827049989

There is no justification whatever for Trump's actions. This is a fascist state in action. There is no legal basis. The troops are being deployed against peaceful protesters and others who are just around at the time.

Clearly a trial run for when Trump loses the election and he tries to manipulate the 'anti-terrorism' powers and troops against the people to stay in office illegally. (Of course, he will also declare the election to have been manipulated and invalid - a bit of a joke given that Russian manipulation played at least a part in getting him elected.

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Original post by Fullofsurprises
Trump has sent militarised Homeland Security police to Portland OR, allegedly to deal with supposed militants. In practise they have been terrorising the city, carrying out random arrests and internments without charge and beating people in the streets.

Now Portland's mothers are forming defensive human female barriers to try to stop them.
https://twitter.com/MrOlmos/status/1285094452827049989

There is no justification whatever for Trump's actions. This is a fascist state in action. There is no legal basis. The troops are being deployed against peaceful protesters and others who are just around at the time.

Clearly a trial run for when Trump loses the election and he tries to manipulate the 'anti-terrorism' powers and troops against the people to stay in office illegally. (Of course, he will also declare the election to have been manipulated and invalid - a bit of a joke given that Russian manipulation played at least a part in getting him elected.

There's a lot to break down in your post.

1) "militarised Homeland Security police": These were Federal officers sent by Homeland Security to protect a Federal Court House.

Info:

Spoiler



2) Post by Homeland Security describing the 47 days of continuous public unrest in Portland, Oregon.

“The city of Portland has been under siege for 47 straight days by a violent mob while local political leaders refuse to restore order to protect their city. Each night, lawless anarchists destroy and desecrate property, including the federal courthouse, and attack the brave law enforcement officers protecting it."

“This siege can end if state and local officials decide to take appropriate action instead of refusing to enforce the law. DHS will not abdicate its solemn duty to protect federal facilities and those within them. Again, I reiterate the Department’s offer to assist local and state leaders to bring an end to the violence perpetrated by anarchists,” said Acting Secretary Chad Wolf"

As you can see, thanks to the timeline provided by the DHS, it is not the first time the Hatfield Courthouse in Portland has been targeted: 29/05; 30/05; 01/06; 07/06; 08/06; 10/06; 13/06; 17/06; 25/06; 01/07; 02/07; 03/07; 04/07; 05/07; 09/07; 12/07; 15/07


The Edith Green-Wenell Wyatt Federal Building was also vandalised multiple times (see timeline). Attempted breach on 14/07.

To say the Feds used unreasonable and disproportionate violence, and that they were arresting "protestors" for no reason is preposterous.

These "protestors" were continuously attacking federal buildings and a courthouse. Homeland Security sends federal officers to protect federal buildings and you the media are surprised?! And this to you is "Fascism"?!?! Give me a ****ing break.

Nancy Pelosi claiming these are stormtroopers (lol)... they're federal officers protecting federal assets.


3) Portland Police statement on 18/07:

Spoiler



Portland Police Statement 17/07:


Spoiler





Obviously what is continuing to happen, much like during the protests immediately following George Floyd's murder, is that while vastly peaceful, these protests are being hijacked by violent anarchists.

To say that Federal officers protecting Federal buildings and arresting violent rioters for "no reason" is in any way "fascist" is totally disingenuous. They're doing their job. That's their "legal basis".

And somehow, according to Oregon leaders, it's Trump's fault a Federal officer was injured?!?!?!
Original post by Occitanie
There's a lot to break down in your post.

1) "militarised Homeland Security police": These were Federal officers sent by Homeland Security to protect a Federal Court House.

Info:

Spoiler



2) Post by Homeland Security describing the 47 days of continuous public unrest in Portland, Oregon.

“The city of Portland has been under siege for 47 straight days by a violent mob while local political leaders refuse to restore order to protect their city. Each night, lawless anarchists destroy and desecrate property, including the federal courthouse, and attack the brave law enforcement officers protecting it."

“This siege can end if state and local officials decide to take appropriate action instead of refusing to enforce the law. DHS will not abdicate its solemn duty to protect federal facilities and those within them. Again, I reiterate the Department’s offer to assist local and state leaders to bring an end to the violence perpetrated by anarchists,” said Acting Secretary Chad Wolf"

As you can see, thanks to the timeline provided by the DHS, it is not the first time the Hatfield Courthouse in Portland has been targeted: 29/05; 30/05; 01/06; 07/06; 08/06; 10/06; 13/06; 17/06; 25/06; 01/07; 02/07; 03/07; 04/07; 05/07; 09/07; 12/07; 15/07


The Edith Green-Wenell Wyatt Federal Building was also vandalised multiple times (see timeline). Attempted breach on 14/07.

To say the Feds used unreasonable and disproportionate violence, and that they were arresting "protestors" for no reason is preposterous.

These "protestors" were continuously attacking federal buildings and a courthouse. Homeland Security sends federal officers to protect federal buildings and you the media are surprised?! And this to you is "Fascism"?!?! Give me a ****ing break.

Nancy Pelosi claiming these are stormtroopers (lol)... they're federal officers protecting federal assets.


3) Portland Police statement on 18/07:

Spoiler



Portland Police Statement 17/07:


Spoiler





Obviously what is continuing to happen, much like during the protests immediately following George Floyd's murder, is that while vastly peaceful, these protests are being hijacked by violent anarchists.

To say that Federal officers protecting Federal buildings and arresting violent rioters for "no reason" is in any way "fascist" is totally disingenuous. They're doing their job. That's their "legal basis".

And somehow, according to Oregon leaders, it's Trump's fault a Federal officer was injured?!?!?!


One of the important lessons of history is how easily many of the general population will accept authoritarian actions by a government.

You'd do well to learn this lesson rather than obediently parroting what you are being drip fed by a government. Then maybe you would not come across as so naive.
(edited 3 years ago)
Original post by Calibrated.
One of the important lessons of history is how easily many of the general population will accept authoritarian actions by a government.

You'd do well to learn this lesson rather than obediently parroting what you are being drip fed by a government. Then maybe you would not come across as so naive.


If that's the case, I implore you to provide details on how sending Federal officers to protect Federal buildings is in any way fascist.

I will welcome anyone to prove me wrong and to prove that the US is being led into authoritarian actions.
Original post by Occitanie
If that's the case, I implore you to provide details on how sending Federal officers to protect Federal buildings is in any way fascist.

I will welcome anyone to prove me wrong and to prove that the US is being led into authoritarian actions.

You're framing the situation in the most disingenuous way possible. Anyone reading your posts would think these feds are just innocently standing guard at federal buildings, rather than driving around in unmarked rental cars, spiriting random people away to undisclosed locations and detaining them without charge, probable cause or due process - with the occasional beating thrown in for good measure. These are pure intimidation tactics, plain and simple.
Original post by Captain Haddock
You're framing the situation in the most disingenuous way possible. Anyone reading your posts would think these feds are just innocently standing guard at federal buildings, rather than driving around in unmarked rental cars, spiriting random people away to undisclosed locations and detaining them without charge, probable cause or due process - with the occasional beating thrown in for good measure. These are pure intimidation tactics, plain and simple.

If I'm being disingenuous, how would you frame this situation then?

- 50+ days of violent public unrest in which private and Federal buildings have been constantly attacked (source DHS post in my posts above)
- The DHS deploys Federal officers to defend the Federal buildings (again, see my DHS post), and somehow that's 'fascism in action' and 'intimidation tactics'
(edited 3 years ago)
Original post by Occitanie
If I'm being disingenuous, how would you frame this situation then?

- 50+ days of violent public unrest in which private and Federal buildings have been constantly attacked (source DHS post in my posts above)
- The DHS deploys Federal officers to defend the Federal buildings (again, see my DHS post), and somehow that's 'fascism in action' and 'intimidation tactics'

... None of this has anything to do with what is actually being discussed in this thread, i.e. the behaviour of these federal officers. It's entirely possible for there to be civil unrest, and for the feds to be acting like fascists.
Reply 7
Thank you for talking about this. People out here calling blm a fascist movement, but when the so called leader of the free world acts like some dystopian authoritarian government, they're so quick to excuse it. The brainwashing some people have is ridiculous.
Original post by Nabu123
Thank you for talking about this. People out here calling blm a fascist movement, but when the so called leader of the free world acts like some dystopian authoritarian government, they're so quick to excuse it. The brainwashing some people have is ridiculous.

Anyone who calls BLM a 'fascist movement' is equally as reprehensible.
This really is not fascism. If you are stupid enough to attack federal property then you can expect the federal gov't to defend themselves.
Tell me, where does ”a government defending itself from rioters” fall on this?
Original post by Captain Haddock
... None of this has anything to do with what is actually being discussed in this thread, i.e. the behaviour of these federal officers. It's entirely possible for there to be civil unrest, and for the feds to be acting like fascists.

I feel like this is going around in circles at this point...

Anyway, seems like it'll happen in Chicago soon too.

Homeland security plans on sending some 150 agents in Chicago this week

The Homeland Security Investigations, or HSI, agents are set to assist other federal law enforcement and Chicago police in crime-fighting efforts, according to sources familiar with the matter, though a specific plan on what the agents will be doing had not been made public.

This undoubtedly follows 16 shot dead and over 100 injured over just one weekend.

At least 49 shot including 7 fatally in incidents across Chicago (weekend of 17-19 July)

Overall crime is down 5.3%, but murder in 25 large cities across the US is up 16.1% in relation to last year.


More from the Chicago Tribune article:

On Saturday, the president of the Chicago police’s largest union had sent Trump a letter asking for help from the federal government in putting a lid on crime in the city.

“I am certain you are aware of the chaos currently affecting our city on a regular basis now,” John Catanzara, president of the Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 7, wrote in a letter that was posted on the FOP’s Facebook page. “I am writing to formally ask you for help from the federal government. Mayor Lightfoot has proved to be a complete failure who is either unwilling or unable to maintain law and order here.”
Trump is planning to rule by decree.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/20/trump-john-yoo-lawyer-torture-waterboarding

Full dictatorship by any other name.

I knew this would happen as we approached election day - Trump has no intention of departing office.
Oh and I suspect that Johnson/Cummings are planning the same for the UK.
@Captain Haddock
@Fullofsurprises

If either of you is bothered to watch a 3min video, here's a rather good explanation by Donut Operator (an actual cop), and a link to the bill by Congress. He can explain better than I ever could.

Basically AOC, Pelosi, et al, who are asking for these officers to be identified, or calling them 'Stormtroopers' are talking claptrap.

In fact, both of you, who have called the Federal Officers and the DHS 'fascist', have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
(edited 3 years ago)
Anarchists are at it again right now in Portland.

Videos surfacing of them attacking the Hatfield Courthouse.
Trump being told by Nancy Pelosi this morning that he will be "fumigated out of the White House" when he loses, even if he doesn't want to go.

Pelosi is saying that the US governmental mechanisms will deal with his aberrant behaviour. This may be true, but I have my doubts. Trump is stretching things to the limit and it isn't at all clear that the Constitution can survive him. He is demonstrating with the thuggery in Portland that his writ is law (as he says) and that he controls the right wing militias of Homeland Security and the militarised police forces.
Reply 16
Original post by Captain Haddock
... None of this has anything to do with what is actually being discussed in this thread, i.e. the behaviour of these federal officers. It's entirely possible for there to be civil unrest, and for the feds to be acting like fascists.



Seems to do an egregious disservice to those who have suffered under actual fascism when people bandy about the term as nothing but a meaningless slur these days...
Not to mention it sounds suspiciously like what extremists, of both stripes, like to bandy about 'the fascist feds are coming to take my guns' and so on so forth.
Reply 17
Original post by Occitanie
@Captain Haddock
@Fullofsurprises

If either of you is bothered to watch a 3min video, here's a rather good explanation by Donut Operator (an actual cop), and a link to the bill by Congress. He can explain better than I ever could.

Basically AOC, Pelosi, et al, who are asking for these officers to be identified, or calling them 'Stormtroopers' are talking claptrap.

In fact, both of you, who have called the Federal Officers and the DHS 'fascist', have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Love his videos with Demoranch :biggrin:
Original post by Napp
Love his videos with Demoranch :biggrin:

Yeah, he's great.

Portland is really blowing up right now. Andy Ngo has clips on his twitter feed. "Protestors" are even forming shieldwalls against the Feds lol
Original post by Napp
Seems to do an egregious disservice to those who have suffered under actual fascism when people bandy about the term as nothing but a meaningless slur these days...
Not to mention it sounds suspiciously like what extremists, of both stripes, like to bandy about 'the fascist feds are coming to take my guns' and so on so forth.

They are imprisoning without charge, beating innocent people in the streets and attacking random civilians.

If it walks like, talks like, acts like....

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