Will Biden be elected President?

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I'd argue the whole ”lying dog-faced pony soldier” thing is pretty clear evidence of dementia.

While I appreciate you consider yourself to be a intellectual, may I suggest you leave the medical diagnosis to doctors?

They actually know what they are talking about.

Reply 21

username5198700

Has Donald Trump divided the country or has his presidency simply exposed the existing divisions?

Also, there is an argument that academia has been a more prominent cause of division in America that has been occurring for years prior to Trump becoming president.

Reply 22

DSilva

Original post by generallee

I didn't say that quoting lines from movies count as plagiarism, and I don't think it is. But then you knew already that, like I always say, you can't stop yourself being intellectually dishonest. It may work with other posters, but every time you do it I will point it out.

What IS plagiarism is quoting another politician's speeches WORD FOR WORD as your own. And stealing someone else's work at Law School for the matter of that.

https://www.businessinsider.com/plagiarism-scandal-joe-biden-first-presidential-run-1988-2019-3?r=US&IR=T

As for him being mentally "sub standard", he may not have been in the 80's, but he increasingly appears it now. Or maybe he is just mendacious?

https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-biden-been-telling-fake-war-story-on-the-trail-2019-8?r=US&IR=T

To your last point, I don't think Trump has been an effective President, but Biden will be just as incompetent in a totally different way. The fact that the American system has come up with a choice of those two is an appalling indictment of it.

Neither is fit to be President of (still) the most powerful country on earth.

A key difference would be that Biden would have much more control over the Democratic Party than Trump did of the Republicans.

If Biden wins and the Senate flips, he may have two years in which he could achieve a fair amount. I also expect he'd be able to court a couple of moderate Republicans such as Romney on certain issues.

I think the Republicans are really going to struggle to paint Biden as extreme or corrupt. The only real thing they have against him is thst he's old. But that's not quite so effective when Trump is only a couple of years younger himself.

Reply 23

QE2

Original post by generallee

I addressed specifically and only the movie quote. You replied that he had a "long history of plagiarism". What else am I to assume? I'm not a mind reader.

What IS plagiarism is quoting another politician's speeches WORD FOR WORD as your own.

He's a politician, ffs!

And stealing someone else's work at Law School for the matter of that.
https://www.businessinsider.com/plagiarism-scandal-joe-biden-first-presidential-run-1988-2019-3?r=US&IR=T

So you think that failing to properly reference a source while at uni shows he is unsuitable presidential material, but Trump's chronic dishonesty, crooked business dealings, sexual assaults, racism, etc, are acceptable presidential traits?
Fair enough.

As I said, Biden is not ideal by a long stretch, but he is far better than Trump, and it is only one or the other.
Which would you vote for (abstention is not an option)?

Reply 24

Susan Edelman

https://www.australiaforum.com/general-chit-chat-news/293461-biden-claimed-islam-great-confessional-faiths.html

Such an obvious grab for appeal to the Muslim demographic.

Reply 25

looloo2134

Original post by QE2

Don't think quoting lines from movies counts as "plagiarism", lol!

So you claim that Biden is mentally substandard because 33 years ago he reworked a speech by another politician to illustrate exactly the same point?
Can you explain the logic behind that?

I agree that Biden is probably too old to be president, but he is certainly more mentally reliable and stable than Trump - so on those grounds you have to favour Biden, as the only other option is Trump.

What ago do you think people not should run for president or be president?
Most presidents have been older because it take a long time to become president.

(edited 3 years ago)

Reply 26

Ascend

Original post by Dubsmash247

what has he done? helped push mass incarceration, opposed school desegregation bussing.

So then he's a perfect candidate for you, right? So what's the problem?

Reply 27

Dubsmash247

Democrat cities are on fire record levels of crime cause by riots. Chicago saw its deadliest day in 60 years! (yet its Mayor thinks we need saving from Trump not gangbangers)

Trump gets the blame for failures of Democrats.

This isn't happening in Trump voting rural communties, they're in Democrat decade+ controlled cities thats a fact.

They refuse to denounce the extremists, unlike Trump who has denounced extremists many times like those nationalists in Charlotsviille (though media will have you think otherwise)

This talk of defunding police is confusing, given some activists are saying we need to completely abolish police while others just want to reduce spending and put the money elsewhere.

(edited 3 years ago)

Reply 28

Drewski

Original post by Dubsmash247

If you listen to his views now, he's done a 180..
but only because he's told what to say to win.
Typical career politician.

So are you saying that you've never changed your mind on anything in your life?

Reply 29

username4969948

Original post by Dubsmash247

If you listen to his views now, he's done a 180..
but only because he's told what to say to win.
Typical career politician.

"It just seems that the economy does better under the Democrats than the Republicans. Now, it shouldn't be that way. But if you go back, I mean it just seems that the economy does better under the Democrats. ...But certainly we had some very good economies under Democrats, as well as Republicans. But we've had some pretty bad disaster under the Republicans."

-Donald Trump back when he spoke in slightly more coherent sentences.

It's going to blow your mind when you learn Trump has previously been a registered Democrat supporter.

Reply 30

caravaggio2

"All men are created equal, go....by....you know......you know the thing......"

Never has the choice of running mate been more important because even the most die hardened Democrat must realise that if they win, there is a very good chance that's who will be president within a couple of years and not Biden.

Reply 31

Drewski

Original post by caravaggio2

There are pretty strong rumours that he himself doesn't want two terms and that his choice of VP will be very much deliberate for them to take over either at or just before the next election.

Reply 32

ThatOldGuy

Original post by QE2

As I said, Biden is not ideal by a long stretch, but he is far better than Trump, and it is only one or the other.
Which would you vote for (abstention is not an option)?

That's an interesting question. I'm not American, nor do I expect Americans to believe as I do. That leads to a few questions:

1) Which one has the best policies?
2) Which one is more likely to successfully implement those policies?
3) Which one is best for me?
4) Which one is best for the country itself?

That said, I have some thoughts on that:

1) Well... Here's Biden's website:https://joebiden.com/joes-vision/

It doesn't say anything. "Use an inclusive and empowering All-of-Government" approach. It's buzzwords. His "Make decisions that are driven by data and science" is more buzzwords, with the bonus of insulting Trump. Digging through the wall of performative wokeness was difficult and filled with enough buzzwords that I realized it was meaningless. Finding Trump's actual platform proved difficult. It had a bragging section about promises kept, but I couldn't find any actual platform. He is pro-school choice and has worked towards that, though, so that's a thing.

It comes down to irrelevant, vague, feel-good promises vs no promises. Edge - Neither.

2) With the policies being either vague and meaningless or non-existent, this one is difficult. Trump will be going in to his second term, meaning he'll face some difficulties, but the Democrats weren't even able to implement change under Obama who had far more support. Edge - Neither.

3) If Biden gets in, the world continues its slide in to balkanization and it gets worse. If Trump stays in, it hits critical mass. At least something will be done. Since I don't live in the US, I'd rather see the US resolve their issues even if it gets bad. At least it'll be resolved. Edge: Trump.

4) Biden will cause a quiescent time, maybe? No guarantee. But it's possible that, like when Obama was in office, people don't want to protest for fear of hurting 'Their team'. If Trump is in office, there will definitely be more riots and more violence and more police crackdown, but at least it won't be hidden any more. Maybe. I don't know. Edge: Neither. Maybe a slight edge to Biden.

So based on that, if I had to vote between the two and couldn't vote third party - Green or Libertarian or the like - I'd go Trump. It'd be one of those, "I'll hold my nose" moments when I did it, but that's what I'd do.

Not that I would. I'd rather vote my conscience than vote for the 'Lesser of two evils'. If more people voted their conscience, it'd be less likely that either of the evils would make it in.

EDIT: I should have pointed out, however, that I was always an Andrew Yang supporter. So if Yang was in it, I'd have voted him.

(edited 3 years ago)

Reply 33

L i b

Probably not. And it will be the Democrats fault they lost.

Reply 34

Napp

Original post by L i b

Probably not. And it will be the Democrats fault they lost.

It's not like they had a better alternative..

Reply 35

nulli tertius

There is usually nothing more pointless in politics than listening to the supporters of a candidate explaining why their man will win.

The reality is that in 2016 everything lined up very favourably for Trump and he won a lot of states by very small margins.

At every election the demographics move slightly against the Republicans. The groups that support them form a slightly smaller proportion of the electorate.

For Trump to win two of three things must happen:-

1 people who didn’t vote in 2016 must vote for Trump
2 people who voted for Clinton must choose not to vote for Biden
3 people who voted Clinton must vote for Trump

There is no sign whatsoever at the moment that any of these things will happen. All the comments from Trump’s supporters are that Trump’s base is loyal. If that is all that happens, then Trump loses. The grim reaper will have taken sufficient of his supporters to guarantee that outcome.

So where are the changes in support that will give Trump victory?

Reply 36

anarchism101

Original post by generallee

I think Biden will be, but I fear it won't be calmer.

Trump has hardly been a success, but the problem for Biden if he wins, is that the Democrats upped the ante last time and refused to accept that Trump's election was in any way legitimate.

His refusal to leave office may be overblown (although who knows??) but the Republicans will surely return the favour and treat a Biden victory as equally invalid. Biden may have a majority in both Houses to start with, but that is unlikely to last beyond the first mid terms.

It depends a lot on the margin of victory by Biden and the Dems more broadly, and the Republican reaction to that, but as a general comment I'd say that Biden is pretty much the GOP's last opportunity to go back to old-style compromise politics and protect their institutional advantage. A lot of younger Democrats (oddly it does tend to be generational rather than ideological - Sanders was less interested in procedural reforms than Buttigieg or O'Rourke), feeling burned after Obama's experience with McConnell, have spent a lot of time coming up with reform ideas to enshrine and strengthen a Democrat majority. Most notably the ideas of court-packing, scrapping the filibuster, and granting DC statehood, but there are others floating around too.

And the interregnum between victory in November and inauguration in January is utterly ridiculous. What other Democracy has such a stupid system? We do it the same day! Obama used the time to plant all kinds of clever time bombs for Trump, do we really think Trump will behave any better and not make things as impossible as he can for Biden?

Yeah, it's dumb. It's one of the many reasons why parliamentary systems are generally more stable democracies than presidential ones. That said, there is a range of lame duck periods used by presidential systems. Brazil has a period about the same as the US - about 2 months. But in France it's just a week or two. At the complete opposite end, Mexico's lame duck period is five months - the election is in July, but the new guy doesn't take office until December.

Reply 37

ThatOldGuy

Original post by Napp

It's not like they had a better alternative..

Andrew Yang was the better alternative in my opinion. He was calm, cool, collected and had a highly nuanced view of the world. Aside from his Universal Basic Income, I really liked his policies. He had a lot of support from both Democrats and Republicans - Even a lot of Trump supporters.

But he didn't get the base fired up because he wasn't an activist.

Reply 38

QE2

Original post by Susan Edelman

https://www.australiaforum.com/general-chit-chat-news/293461-biden-claimed-islam-great-confessional-faiths.html

Such an obvious grab for appeal to the Muslim demographic.

A politician pandering to an audience in the run-up to an election? I'm shocked! Whatever next?

Reply 39

QE2

Original post by looloo2134

What ago do you think people not should run for president or be president?

I think it is difficult to rationally justify any particular arbitrary age, but using the statutory retirement age would be reasonable.

Most presidents have been older because it take a long time to become president.

Only 11 out of 45 US presidents were over 60 when they took office. 9 were in their 40s.
Biden will be the oldest by 7 years. Only 12 presidents will have been within 20 years of him if elected.