The British Justice system is a pathetic joke

Pretty much my entire family are teachers. The thing that kids need is structure and order. It depends what sanctions are put in place as to whether they’re effective. I don’t advocate for bringing back the cane, but some schools need excessive discipline especially in schools like in London- for obvious reasons.,

The state will always make mistakes in every field, so by your logic shouldn’t exist?

In any case, you’re treating the state as an individual, which it isn’t. Your argument doesn’t regally make sense unless you’re coming from an anarchist perspective.

Besides, I think there are cases when the evidence is simply incontrovertible such as Lee Rigbys killer

Yes, the state makes mistakes, but my point was that if the state specifically kills an innocent person, and one already holds the belief that "anyone who kills an innocent person should receive the death penalty", then the combination of those two premises means that the state will necessarily need to receive the death penalty.

The state will always make mistakes in every field, so by your logic shouldn’t exist?

No, that’s some really bizarre logic.

In any case

1: The state isn’t wilfully targeting innocent people in the way of a common criminal. Some people notably the nihilistic far left don’t believe that motivations matter - but we can argue about that if you wish to make that point.

2: The state will inevitably find itself in what Schmitt would call the state of exception where due to the state needing to survive in an anarchical world order will find itself doing ‘illegal’ things, but unlike individuals has the legal authority to enact this.

3: In war, innocent civilians die all the time



Why?

Whilst as a realist I do think that states are rational actors, as per above they should not be treated as people.

Basically Machiavelli was right.

Indeed, as you put it, it is tantamount to the state being at war with the citizens.

It sort of is, basically I think that Hobbes was right

And so if you, as a citizen, wish the state to be at war with you, you should simply go and kill yourself, as that will be the end result.

Why would you question this part of his/her argument when this was not the point he was making? His point was clearly that innocent people can, and do end up being wrongfully killed by the death penalty which he/she has cited with statistics.

He said that the fact that states makes mistakes in delivering capital punishment in a minority of cases (which I readily acknowledge) meant that it shouldn’t be done.

The point I made was that the same could be said of anything the state is involved in. Ultimately it’s a technical argument, and seems to mme to concede that capital punishment is right but only with a 100% success rate- which no policy could ever match. We may as well scrap the police because a minority of people are falsely imprisoned/ arrested

What about on the other side, cuts in legal aid, evidence been with held and people been wrongly put in prison?Bit one sided to knock all sentences up, the whole system needs looking at, as you say people who are used to system and make lawyers money or who are rich get away with murder! Now it's mostly the rich!But people on legal aid are now been represented thanks to cut backs by lawyers who get one payment at begining meaning it doesn't pay them to try and defend some one properly, or to any extent! Get them to plead guilty even if they are innocent, easier makes law firms more money.So yes I do agree but you sound like you have had no personal experience of how rubbish the whole system is! Unless of course you have money, just do what you want!