Do the Lib Dem’s actually have any principles?
Tuition fees, Tory coalition, Brexit......
Do the LDs actually have any principles or are they just interested in themselves?
The latest is that they now support Brexit along with the Tories and UKIP.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-liberal-democrats-eu-ed-davey-europe-b404557.html
Whilst I know that this is a pro-Brexit forum but whether you believe in Brexit or not isn't the issue. The issue is that the Lib Dem’s will throw aside their ideals at a whim and it’s not the first time!
Tuition fees
The Lib Dem’s wanted to scrap tuition fees but once in coalition with tories they agreed to raise tuition fees.
Coalition
The Lib Dem’s sat back and let the tories go ahead with their cruel nasty welfare reforms that caused so much suffering and poor and disabled people. They could have left the coalition in protest but instead they stayed.
They gave Boris an election he was certain to win.
Without a GE in 2019 Boris Johnson was in limbo with a minority government that was stuck he’d have eventually resigned then there could have been a people’s vote on Brexit, but instead the LDs rescued Boris from his ditch that lead him a historic landslide majority.
Brexit
For at least the last 25 years the LDs have called themselves a pro-EU party that since 2016 campaigned against Brexit. Now they have changed into a pro-Brexit party.
Will the LDs do anything to gain votes? Throw away their ideals and very identity?
One things for damn sure you can’t trust or rely on them for anything!
Would you vote Lib Dem? I’m damn sure I wouldn’t.
Do the LDs actually have any principles or are they just interested in themselves?
The latest is that they now support Brexit along with the Tories and UKIP.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-liberal-democrats-eu-ed-davey-europe-b404557.html
Whilst I know that this is a pro-Brexit forum but whether you believe in Brexit or not isn't the issue. The issue is that the Lib Dem’s will throw aside their ideals at a whim and it’s not the first time!
Tuition fees
The Lib Dem’s wanted to scrap tuition fees but once in coalition with tories they agreed to raise tuition fees.
Coalition
The Lib Dem’s sat back and let the tories go ahead with their cruel nasty welfare reforms that caused so much suffering and poor and disabled people. They could have left the coalition in protest but instead they stayed.
They gave Boris an election he was certain to win.
Without a GE in 2019 Boris Johnson was in limbo with a minority government that was stuck he’d have eventually resigned then there could have been a people’s vote on Brexit, but instead the LDs rescued Boris from his ditch that lead him a historic landslide majority.
Brexit
For at least the last 25 years the LDs have called themselves a pro-EU party that since 2016 campaigned against Brexit. Now they have changed into a pro-Brexit party.
Will the LDs do anything to gain votes? Throw away their ideals and very identity?
One things for damn sure you can’t trust or rely on them for anything!
Would you vote Lib Dem? I’m damn sure I wouldn’t.
Not campaigning to rejoin the EU =/= Being pro Brexit.
Original post by Ambitious1999
Coalition
The Lib Dem’s sat back and let the tories go ahead with their cruel nasty welfare reforms that caused so much suffering and poor and disabled people. They could have left the coalition in protest but instead they stayed.
The Lib Dem’s sat back and let the tories go ahead with their cruel nasty welfare reforms that caused so much suffering and poor and disabled people. They could have left the coalition in protest but instead they stayed.
To be fair, they did take the edge off the Tories just a little bit. The Tories have been far worse post coalition.
But other than that the Lib Dems are lying scum that should have shut up shop years ago.
Accepting that it is fruitless to campaign to rejoin the EU is not supporting Brexit, just realising that the act of harm is done. The Lib Dems are back electorally to being the minor party they were before Paddy Ashdown became leader. Even more likely given there is now a Labour leader who looks vaguely credible.
Original post by barnetlad
Accepting that it is fruitless to campaign to rejoin the EU is not supporting Brexit, just realising that the act of harm is done. The Lib Dems are back electorally to being the minor party they were before Paddy Ashdown became leader. Even more likely given there is now a Labour leader who looks vaguely credible.
...and also a Conservative leader that looks incompetent. The LD are not just a third party for Labour voters, after all.
Original post by Ambitious1999
Tuition fees, Tory coalition, Brexit......
Do the LDs actually have any principles or are they just interested in themselves?
The latest is that they now support Brexit along with the Tories and UKIP.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-liberal-democrats-eu-ed-davey-europe-b404557.html
Whilst I know that this is a pro-Brexit forum but whether you believe in Brexit or not isn't the issue. The issue is that the Lib Dem’s will throw aside their ideals at a whim and it’s not the first time!
Tuition fees
The Lib Dem’s wanted to scrap tuition fees but once in coalition with tories they agreed to raise tuition fees.
Coalition
The Lib Dem’s sat back and let the tories go ahead with their cruel nasty welfare reforms that caused so much suffering and poor and disabled people. They could have left the coalition in protest but instead they stayed.
They gave Boris an election he was certain to win.
Without a GE in 2019 Boris Johnson was in limbo with a minority government that was stuck he’d have eventually resigned then there could have been a people’s vote on Brexit, but instead the LDs rescued Boris from his ditch that lead him a historic landslide majority.
Brexit
For at least the last 25 years the LDs have called themselves a pro-EU party that since 2016 campaigned against Brexit. Now they have changed into a pro-Brexit party.
Will the LDs do anything to gain votes? Throw away their ideals and very identity?
One things for damn sure you can’t trust or rely on them for anything!
Would you vote Lib Dem? I’m damn sure I wouldn’t.
Do the LDs actually have any principles or are they just interested in themselves?
The latest is that they now support Brexit along with the Tories and UKIP.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-liberal-democrats-eu-ed-davey-europe-b404557.html
Whilst I know that this is a pro-Brexit forum but whether you believe in Brexit or not isn't the issue. The issue is that the Lib Dem’s will throw aside their ideals at a whim and it’s not the first time!
Tuition fees
The Lib Dem’s wanted to scrap tuition fees but once in coalition with tories they agreed to raise tuition fees.
Coalition
The Lib Dem’s sat back and let the tories go ahead with their cruel nasty welfare reforms that caused so much suffering and poor and disabled people. They could have left the coalition in protest but instead they stayed.
They gave Boris an election he was certain to win.
Without a GE in 2019 Boris Johnson was in limbo with a minority government that was stuck he’d have eventually resigned then there could have been a people’s vote on Brexit, but instead the LDs rescued Boris from his ditch that lead him a historic landslide majority.
Brexit
For at least the last 25 years the LDs have called themselves a pro-EU party that since 2016 campaigned against Brexit. Now they have changed into a pro-Brexit party.
Will the LDs do anything to gain votes? Throw away their ideals and very identity?
One things for damn sure you can’t trust or rely on them for anything!
Would you vote Lib Dem? I’m damn sure I wouldn’t.
Why does everyone blame the lib dems for student fees? It was the Tories who wanted and implemented them. Do people not understand that if you are the small guy in a compromise you may have to let something go.
Then there is AV that everyone voted against but are now calling for.
And we all have an 11k tax allowance thanks to the lib dems and if you have kids is KS1 their free school meals are thanks to the lib dems.
And on Europe the lib dems have been consistent. Labour were flip flopping all over the place and I am yet to see the oven ready deal Boris had in his back pocket.
So when you question principals, who are you using for comparison?
Original post by ByEeek
Why does everyone blame the lib dems for student fees? It was the Tories who wanted and implemented them. Do people not understand that if you are the small guy in a compromise you may have to let something go.
Then there is AV that everyone voted against but are now calling for.
And we all have an 11k tax allowance thanks to the lib dems and if you have kids is KS1 their free school meals are thanks to the lib dems.
And on Europe the lib dems have been consistent. Labour were flip flopping all over the place and I am yet to see the oven ready deal Boris had in his back pocket.
So when you question principals, who are you using for comparison?
Then there is AV that everyone voted against but are now calling for.
And we all have an 11k tax allowance thanks to the lib dems and if you have kids is KS1 their free school meals are thanks to the lib dems.
And on Europe the lib dems have been consistent. Labour were flip flopping all over the place and I am yet to see the oven ready deal Boris had in his back pocket.
So when you question principals, who are you using for comparison?
Very well put!
I have voted for the Lib Dem in the past and may do so again, as an alternative to Labour.
The Lib Dems staunchly supported AV and opposed Brexit but the majority of voters disagreed with their stances on both.
Including me.
During the coalition era the Lib Dems: opposed identity cards, supported raising the personal allowance and reducing the number of lawful VAT & stamp duty loopholes that facilitated the most popular avoidance schemes.
The Lib Dems staunchly supported AV and opposed Brexit but the majority of voters disagreed with their stances on both.
Including me.
During the coalition era the Lib Dems: opposed identity cards, supported raising the personal allowance and reducing the number of lawful VAT & stamp duty loopholes that facilitated the most popular avoidance schemes.
Original post by ByEeek
Why does everyone blame the lib dems for student fees? It was the Tories who wanted and implemented them. Do people not understand that if you are the small guy in a compromise you may have to let something go.
Then there is AV that everyone voted against but are now calling for.
And we all have an 11k tax allowance thanks to the lib dems and if you have kids is KS1 their free school meals are thanks to the lib dems.
And on Europe the lib dems have been consistent. Labour were flip flopping all over the place and I am yet to see the oven ready deal Boris had in his back pocket.
So when you question principals, who are you using for comparison?
Then there is AV that everyone voted against but are now calling for.
And we all have an 11k tax allowance thanks to the lib dems and if you have kids is KS1 their free school meals are thanks to the lib dems.
And on Europe the lib dems have been consistent. Labour were flip flopping all over the place and I am yet to see the oven ready deal Boris had in his back pocket.
So when you question principals, who are you using for comparison?
The Lib Dems had to option to abstain from the vote, they didn't even the decency to do that. They voted for it after explicitly saying they would do the total opposite.
We knew the Tories were lying scum already, they are Tories. But many young people put their faith in the system and voted for the party that said they would help young people, only for them to get on their knees as soon as Tories offered them a sniff of power.
What is the point in voting if you can't trust any of them to do what they promised?
Original post by DiddyDec
The Lib Dems had to option to abstain from the vote, they didn't even the decency to do that. They voted for it after explicitly saying they would do the total opposite.
Of course. The the Tories voted in favour of an AV referendum against their own views on the subject. That is how coalition works. That is how it works the world over. Political parties campaign on a manefesto which is then up for grabs in the following compromise.
Original post by ByEeek
Why does everyone blame the lib dems for student fees? It was the Tories who wanted and implemented them. Do people not understand that if you are the small guy in a compromise you may have to let something go.
Then there is AV that everyone voted against but are now calling for.
And we all have an 11k tax allowance thanks to the lib dems and if you have kids is KS1 their free school meals are thanks to the lib dems.
And on Europe the lib dems have been consistent. Labour were flip flopping all over the place and I am yet to see the oven ready deal Boris had in his back pocket.
So when you question principals, who are you using for comparison?
Then there is AV that everyone voted against but are now calling for.
And we all have an 11k tax allowance thanks to the lib dems and if you have kids is KS1 their free school meals are thanks to the lib dems.
And on Europe the lib dems have been consistent. Labour were flip flopping all over the place and I am yet to see the oven ready deal Boris had in his back pocket.
So when you question principals, who are you using for comparison?
Nobody wants AV. Or ever did, really. It's just not a good system. It's infuriating that they offered us such a shite alternative and then put the issue to bed when people rejected it.
Original post by ByEeek
Of course. The the Tories voted in favour of an AV referendum against their own views on the subject. That is how coalition works. That is how it works the world over. Political parties campaign on a manefesto which is then up for grabs in the following compromise.
Was voting against an AV referendum a key part of the Tory manifesto?
All 57 Lib Dem MPs pledged to vote against tuition fee rises, they were elected on that promise. The pledge stated;
“I pledge to vote against any increase in fees in the next parliament and to pressure the government to introduce a fairer alternative.”
The coalition agreement stated the following;
"We will await Lord Browne’s final report into higher education funding... If the response of the Government to Lord Browne’s report is one that Liberal Democrats cannot accept, then arrangements will be made to enable Liberal Democrat MPs to abstain in any vote."
They are paying the price for betrayal.
Original post by DiddyDec
Was voting against an AV referendum a key part of the Tory manifesto?
All 57 Lib Dem MPs pledged to vote against tuition fee rises, they were elected on that promise. The pledge stated;
“I pledge to vote against any increase in fees in the next parliament and to pressure the government to introduce a fairer alternative.”
The coalition agreement stated the following;
"We will await Lord Browne’s final report into higher education funding... If the response of the Government to Lord Browne’s report is one that Liberal Democrats cannot accept, then arrangements will be made to enable Liberal Democrat MPs to abstain in any vote."
They are paying the price for betrayal.
All 57 Lib Dem MPs pledged to vote against tuition fee rises, they were elected on that promise. The pledge stated;
“I pledge to vote against any increase in fees in the next parliament and to pressure the government to introduce a fairer alternative.”
The coalition agreement stated the following;
"We will await Lord Browne’s final report into higher education funding... If the response of the Government to Lord Browne’s report is one that Liberal Democrats cannot accept, then arrangements will be made to enable Liberal Democrat MPs to abstain in any vote."
They are paying the price for betrayal.
True. But it is a hypocrytic price. The Tories consistently lie but they keep getting in. Talk about Turkeys voting for Christmas.
By contrast the Lib Dems went back on obe thing whilst delivering most of everything else, most of which has benefitted everyone. Before they got in tax was paid on earnings over 4k. Not bad for a minority party.
And the Tories? That put VAT up to 20%!
(edited 3 years ago)
The coalition years were great.
And this crap about them being pro-Brexit is obvious nonsense. Indeed, they went too far the other way - they should have accepted the result, like a lot of the Continuity Remainers, and campaigned for a sensible approach. That might actually have done the country some good.
And this crap about them being pro-Brexit is obvious nonsense. Indeed, they went too far the other way - they should have accepted the result, like a lot of the Continuity Remainers, and campaigned for a sensible approach. That might actually have done the country some good.
Original post by ByEeek
True. But it is a hypocrytic price. The Tories consistently lie but they keep getting in. Talk about Turkeys voting for Christmas.
By contrast the Lib Dems went back on obe thing whilst delivering most of everything else, most of which has benefitted everyone. Before they got in tax was paid on earnings over 4k. Not bad for a minority party.
And the Tories? That put VAT up to 20%!
By contrast the Lib Dems went back on obe thing whilst delivering most of everything else, most of which has benefitted everyone. Before they got in tax was paid on earnings over 4k. Not bad for a minority party.
And the Tories? That put VAT up to 20%!
I don't really understand why people vote Tory when they only ever seem to make people's lives worse.
It may have only been one promise but as we can see from their current standing it was a crucial promise.
Original post by Captain Haddock
Nobody wants AV. Or ever did, really. It's just not a good system. It's infuriating that they offered us such a shite alternative and then put the issue to bed when people rejected it.
People seem to forget just how close the Tories were to a majority, there was no non Con-Lib alternative other than an election (or possibly Con-DUP) and the Tories would have rather gone for an election than risk proper PR.
People also seem to forget that in a second election Cameron would have gone to every one of the 58 Lib Dem seats and Con-Lab marginals and said that this is what happens when you don't unify behind a Conservative Majority government... With Labour tainted they'd have won it.
Original post by ByEeek
Why does everyone blame the lib dems for student fees? It was the Tories who wanted and implemented them. Do people not understand that if you are the small guy in a compromise you may have to let something go.
Then there is AV that everyone voted against but are now calling for.
And we all have an 11k tax allowance thanks to the lib dems and if you have kids is KS1 their free school meals are thanks to the lib dems.
And on Europe the lib dems have been consistent. Labour were flip flopping all over the place and I am yet to see the oven ready deal Boris had in his back pocket.
So when you question principals, who are you using for comparison?
Then there is AV that everyone voted against but are now calling for.
And we all have an 11k tax allowance thanks to the lib dems and if you have kids is KS1 their free school meals are thanks to the lib dems.
And on Europe the lib dems have been consistent. Labour were flip flopping all over the place and I am yet to see the oven ready deal Boris had in his back pocket.
So when you question principals, who are you using for comparison?
It's because, as in every thread this guy has ever made, they have no ****ing clue what they're talking about.
Original post by Ambitious1999
Tuition fees, Tory coalition, Brexit......
Do the LDs actually have any principles or are they just interested in themselves?
The latest is that they now support Brexit along with the Tories and UKIP.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-liberal-democrats-eu-ed-davey-europe-b404557.html
Whilst I know that this is a pro-Brexit forum but whether you believe in Brexit or not isn't the issue. The issue is that the Lib Dem’s will throw aside their ideals at a whim and it’s not the first time!
Tuition fees
The Lib Dem’s wanted to scrap tuition fees but once in coalition with tories they agreed to raise tuition fees.
Coalition
The Lib Dem’s sat back and let the tories go ahead with their cruel nasty welfare reforms that caused so much suffering and poor and disabled people. They could have left the coalition in protest but instead they stayed.
They gave Boris an election he was certain to win.
Without a GE in 2019 Boris Johnson was in limbo with a minority government that was stuck he’d have eventually resigned then there could have been a people’s vote on Brexit, but instead the LDs rescued Boris from his ditch that lead him a historic landslide majority.
Brexit
For at least the last 25 years the LDs have called themselves a pro-EU party that since 2016 campaigned against Brexit. Now they have changed into a pro-Brexit party.
Will the LDs do anything to gain votes? Throw away their ideals and very identity?
One things for damn sure you can’t trust or rely on them for anything!
Would you vote Lib Dem? I’m damn sure I wouldn’t.
Do the LDs actually have any principles or are they just interested in themselves?
The latest is that they now support Brexit along with the Tories and UKIP.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-liberal-democrats-eu-ed-davey-europe-b404557.html
Whilst I know that this is a pro-Brexit forum but whether you believe in Brexit or not isn't the issue. The issue is that the Lib Dem’s will throw aside their ideals at a whim and it’s not the first time!
Tuition fees
The Lib Dem’s wanted to scrap tuition fees but once in coalition with tories they agreed to raise tuition fees.
Coalition
The Lib Dem’s sat back and let the tories go ahead with their cruel nasty welfare reforms that caused so much suffering and poor and disabled people. They could have left the coalition in protest but instead they stayed.
They gave Boris an election he was certain to win.
Without a GE in 2019 Boris Johnson was in limbo with a minority government that was stuck he’d have eventually resigned then there could have been a people’s vote on Brexit, but instead the LDs rescued Boris from his ditch that lead him a historic landslide majority.
Brexit
For at least the last 25 years the LDs have called themselves a pro-EU party that since 2016 campaigned against Brexit. Now they have changed into a pro-Brexit party.
Will the LDs do anything to gain votes? Throw away their ideals and very identity?
One things for damn sure you can’t trust or rely on them for anything!
Would you vote Lib Dem? I’m damn sure I wouldn’t.
The Lib Dems have basically been dead since 2015. Their position as Britain's third party has been replaced by the SNP.
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