Why do medical doctors do a PHD/masters later on in their career?

Who do medical doctors do a PHD/masters in specialties of interest later on in their career?
I dont see what the point of doing a phd/masters in a specialty once you become a medical doctor; what are the advantages?
For example: a medical doctor doing a degree (masters/phd) in neuroscience if they are interested in neurosurgery or a degree in cardiovascular science if they are interested in cardiovascular surgery

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Reply 1

wyann LT

Ye but I thought that you do not have to have post grad (PG) qualifications in order to advance in specialty; Wont it take longer to become a consultant if you opted to get pg; isn't it more expensive to do a pg in terms of funding or would you get supplemented for this (i.e. pay rise as a doctor etc ).
If I want to become a neurosurgeon or something, what is the point of doing a pg degree if I could become one without doing it via run through specialty training.

Reply 2

artful_lounger

Universities Forum Helper

Also, and this is a wild concept I know so bear with me, some people like doing academic research and are interested in the academic side of their professional work, so do decide to do a PhD (or MD which is a research degree in the UK) to explore some area of research they are interested in that as of yet is unexplored on the basis of that.

After school people do sometimes pursue qualifications for reasons other than cynical CV fodder after all...

(edited 3 years ago)

Reply 3

wyann LT

U a neurosurgeon right or are still in training? Did you do (or are u thinkin about) doing a pg degree. In addition do you think it is worth doing a pg after medicine, if so do you have any pg degree u think is beneficial for neurosurgery if not what are most common pg degrees med students do after they graduate as doctors.

Reply 4

wyann LT

im already in first year of med school lol but anyway thanks

Reply 5

wyann LT

At the moment I am just planning for the different things I want to get done whils at med school. I was thinking about intercalating at oncology or neuroscience but undecided; I thought interating at oncology would be beneficial as if I change my mind on the specialty i.e I change from neurology to gastro, my knowledge of oncology can apply to both if I sup specialise in the future, but on the other hand if I am set on doing neurology I could intercalate at neuroscience to make my application stronger for future training post.
Btw I heard that it is 5 points if you have a phd degree but how could u do a intercalated phd so the most I could get is 4 points which is a 1st class intercalated degree; is this true.

Reply 6

Angury

Doctor here. Also doing a PhD. Am doing it because I find the topic interesting, not because I want to advance my career.

Reply 7

Zitka

As others have said, you might want to do a PhD for extra points when applying for jobs. You receive points for the degree itself but you'll also benefit from protected research time instead of juggling it with clinical practice/specialty training. In addition to more time for research, PhD training might make it easier to network with academics, access research training courses, fund travel to conferences/research consumables. You have more support and time to publish/present/win prizes which will give you more points on top of the points from having a PhD.

Or you could be interested in the academic side of medicine and want a future career as an academic consultant combining clinical practice and research. A prerequisite for a Clinical Lectureship is a "PhD/MD or equivalent", so aspiring clinician academics or surgical academics often do a 3-year PhD.
https://heeoe.hee.nhs.uk/surgery/academic/how-can-you-become-academic-surgeon
https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/explore-roles/doctors/career-opportunities-doctors/clinical-academic-medicine/clinical-lectureships

Reply 8

wyann LT

What is the difference between MD and PHD? What is a MD? Which is better/ adv/disadv for both

Reply 9

wyann LT

What is the point of doing a PHD in medicine/ adv/disadv/ is doing a phd in medicine useless

Reply 10

MindMax2000

Universities Forum Helper

Are you referring the US medical degree i.e. Medicinae Doctor? See the following link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Medicine. The degree demonstrates you have the working knowledge to become a practicing medical practitioner/doctor (you need experience after that to become a qualified doctor).

PhD is Doctorate of Philosophy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Philosophy), which is a degree that demonstrates you have the knowledge and skills to perform academic research.

There's no one degree that is better than the other, arguably, and it depends more on what you want to do with the degree. If you want to go into research, the PhD is more appopriate, but if you want to be a practicing doctor at a clinic, you need the MD (ideally suited to the country you're working in). The MDs might poke fun at PhDs, but the PhDs can always poke back at the MDs.

The degrees should be recognised all over the world, and should allow you to work anywhere in the world, provided they're from reputable institutions. With the MDs though, you will need to retrain for your experience within the specific country you work in (local laws and drugs, etc.). I don't think you need to do any additional training for research though.

Reply 11

Zitka

Original post by wyann LT

What is the difference between MD and PHD? What is a MD? Which is better/ adv/disadv for both

An MD in the UK differs from an MD in North America. As MindMax2000 said, an MD in North America is a medical degree equivalent to MBBS/MBChB.

A UK MD, however, is a postgraduate research degree that is only available to active clinicians. Like a PhD, you would find a research supervisor in a specialty of your choice but unlike a PhD, you would conduct research simultaneously with a full-time clinical role. It's usually 2-4 years and like a PhD, completion of the MD involves submitting a thesis and completing a viva. Having spoken to academic clinicians, the main pro of the MD route is that you don't have to take 3-4 years out of clinical practice but of course, the con is that you'll be working much, much harder since you have two full-on roles.

Here's an example of an MD: https://www.kcl.ac.uk/ioppn/study/prospective-students/programmes-of-study/pgr/md(res)

Reply 12

wyann LT

Can you become a surgeon (neurosurgeon) and do research (on cancer) on the side; e.g 1 or 2 days per week doing (cancer) research and the remaining days of the week in the hospital doing (neuro) surgery; if so what is the process of doing that?
btw im a 1st year med student

Reply 13

Kyungsooisbae

Original post by wyann LT

Theoretically yes, realistically no. You can go for a career in academic medicine, doing the alternative Academic Foundation Programme rather than the standard FY1/FY2 years. This will enable you to continue progressing as a physician in a speciality whilst also doing research. Alternatively, you could enter mid-career and practice part-time whilst pursuing clinical research apprenticeships. However, it is a very intensive career path to becoming a neurosurgeon and most will choose to just focus on that. Also, there is almost no way you will be able to balance doing research and practice in two vastly different areas, as it takes a lot of expertise unless you focus on cancers of the brain in your context. Whilst it may be possible it is terribly unlikely as both becoming a neurosurgeon or a career in academic medicine is very competitive and most won't do either yet you trying to do both. I would suggest doing a bit more research into this area as you seem to not have thought it through much.

Reply 14

wyann LT

Original post by Kyungsooisbae

Do you think neurosurgeons do post grad (PG) qualifications if so which one would be most suited for the course?
Does taking a part time PG mean I can still advance in my training to become a neurosurgeon whilst studying my PG course?
If in my future career if I want to combine my interest in neurosurgery and cancer together (subspecialise e.g in neuro-oncology), what are the next steps?

Reply 15

wyann LT

If I take a part time post graduate course (PG) as a medic doctor can I still advance in my training specialty whilst studying for my PG course at another university?
Would a full time post graduate course mean that I cannot simultaneously train as a doctor and have to take those years out from my training to study for my PG course before returning to work as a doctor in my specialty?

Reply 16

becausethenight

Well...why? You could be a neurosurgeon with research interests in brain cancer (like these people: https://www.uclh.nhs.uk/OurServices/ServiceA-Z/Neuro/BTU/Pages/Consultants.aspx) but you probably wouldn't want to have a research interest that had nothing to do with your specialty? The pathway to something like this would probably involve ACF or AFP, but everyone will do it differently - I'd get in touch with a lecturer or doctor at your med school doing something you're interested in and ask them about it.

Plus, this is super super specialised and competitive, and you're only in year one.

Reply 17

wyann LT

If in my future career, I want to combine my interest in neurosurgery and cancer together (subspecialise e.g in neuro-oncology), what are the next steps? (are there any beneficial graduate courses I can do?)
What is the sub specialty of neuro- oncology?
How could I mix my interest in neurosurgery and oncology together into a specialty?
Im a medical student in the uk

Reply 18

wyann LT

Can you become a neurosurgeon going through the Academic foundation programme route (AFP). Im asking this because Im interested in oncology and neurosurgery and want to combine my interest into a specialty so I was thinking about doing research in brain cancer during my AFP whilst training to become a neurosurgeon? Do you have to do a post grad course during AFP years if so on what based on my interests?

Reply 19

wyann LT

What is the difference between medicine and clinical medicine course at oxford uni? oxford uni provides a dphil in clinical medicine but how does that differ from the normal medical degree and why do people do clinical medicine?
Is clinical medicine post grad degree the degree that doctors do in their training