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Book Recommendation for Psychiatry for 1st year medical student

Does anyone have any good book recommendations for someone interested in psychiatry? I'm a 1st year medical student btw
Original post by Cupcakes1234567
Does anyone have any good book recommendations for someone interested in psychiatry? I'm a 1st year medical student btw

Psychiatry P.R.N by Sarah Stringer combines theory with OSCE tips, relatable to real life patients.
Original post by tufftybluey
Psychiatry P.R.N by Sarah Stringer combines theory with OSCE tips, relatable to real life patients.

Thank you! :smile:
Reply 3
What type of books are you looking for? More for general interest / books aimed at the general public or more theoretical and aimed towards doctors?
Original post by Angury
What type of books are you looking for? More for general interest / books aimed at the general public or more theoretical and aimed towards doctors?

More general interest but I don't mind theoretical
Reply 5
Original post by Cupcakes1234567
Does anyone have any good book recommendations for someone interested in psychiatry? I'm a 1st year medical student btw



Right, prepare to be spammed.



Spoiler





Apologies for the ridiculously long list. As I’m unsure what specifically interests you (perhaps you don’t know yourself!), I’ve given a general outline and haven't really covered in detail what each book is about and why I have recommended it. If there are any books that catch your eye I'm happy to discuss them in more detail and why I think they are worth reading.


Also, if there are any particular areas you would like to read more about, let me know and I’m happy to give recommendations on not only books but also videos, articles and debates.

Enjoy!
Original post by Angury
Right, prepare to be spammed.



Spoiler





Apologies for the ridiculously long list. As I’m unsure what specifically interests you (perhaps you don’t know yourself!), I’ve given a general outline and haven't really covered in detail what each book is about and why I have recommended it. If there are any books that catch your eye I'm happy to discuss them in more detail and why I think they are worth reading.


Also, if there are any particular areas you would like to read more about, let me know and I’m happy to give recommendations on not only books but also videos, articles and debates.

Enjoy!

Not OP (also 1st year med), but this looks fantastic :heart:
I've read some of these (shoutout to Love's Executioner) but I'm definitely going to check the rest out, especially the "textbook" ones since it'll be nice to have stuff in a bit more of a medical context I think.
If you don't mind, have you read anything with a sociology or legal focus that you thought was interesting? :smile:
Reply 7
Original post by becausethenight
Not OP (also 1st year med), but this looks fantastic :heart:
I've read some of these (shoutout to Love's Executioner) but I'm definitely going to check the rest out, especially the "textbook" ones since it'll be nice to have stuff in a bit more of a medical context I think.
If you don't mind, have you read anything with a sociology or legal focus that you thought was interesting? :smile:



Regarding law and sociology, I have another long list (sorry!). These are the books that have had most of an impact on me:



Cultural:

Madness and modernism by Louis Sass

Outsiders: Studies in Sociology of Deviance by Howard Becker

Violence: A Public Health Menace and a Public Health Approach by Sandra Bloom
Forensic Mental Health: Concepts, Systems and Practice by Annie Bartlett

Introducing Levi Strauss and Structural Anthropology
Anthropological Approaches to Psychological Medicine: Crossing Bridges by Vieda Skultans

The Society of the Spectacle by Guy Debord

Dangerous People: Policy, Prediction and Practice by Bernadette McSherry

Structural Anthropology by Claude Levi-Strauss

Psychiatry in Context: Experience, Meaning & Communities by Philip Thomas

The Public Value of the Social Sciences: An Interpretive Essay by John Brewer

On the Sociology of Medicine & Civilization and Disease by Henry Sigerist

Subjectivity: Ethnographic Investigations by Joao Biehl
Soteria by Loren Mosher
Limits to Medicine: Medical Nemesis, The Expropriation by Ivan Illich

Narrative Based Medicine by Tisha Greenhalgh

Aylums: Essays on the Social Situation of Mental Patients and Other Inmates by Erving Goffman
Exploring Medical Anthropology by Donald Joralemon
Mind, Modernity, Madness: The Impact of Culture on Human Experience by Liah Greenfeld
Steps to an Ecology of Mind: Collected Essays in Anthropology, Psychiatry, Evolution and Epistemology by Gregory Bateson

Suicide: A Study in Sociology by Emile Durkheim
The Rise and Fall of Modern Medicine by James Le Fanu



I’ve given a broad list as there are a lot of different aspects of medical anthropology. A good starting place is The Rise and Fall of Modern Medicine by Le Fanu and Limits to Medicine by Illich which are well written, easy to follow and will give you an idea of what you want to read about further. Of the mental health anthropology books, I would say the best writer is Arthur Kleinman.



Books by Arthur Kleinman:
Social Suffering
Writing at the Margin: Discourse between Anthropology and Medicine
Patients and Healers in the Context of Culture: An exploration of the borderland between Anthropology, Medicine and Psychiatry
Deep China: The Moral Life of the Person, What Anthropology and Psychiatry Tell Us about China Today
Pain as Human Experience: An Anthropological Perspective

Culture and Depression: Studies in the Anthropology and Cross-Cultural Psychiatry of Affect and Disorder



As you can see, Kleinman writes a lot about mental illness and anthropology. He is a fantastic writer and his books are interspersed by case studies which illustrate his points beautifully. If you are interested in this area, I would highly recommend starting with Arthur Kleinman.



I’m also thrilled to hear you are interested in Law. I am actually undertaking postgraduate studies in Mental Health Law at the moment so have a lot to say about the topic! Below are some books about mental health law to get you started.



Law:
Human rights: a very short introduction by Andrew Clapham

Dignity, mental health and human rights: coercion and the law by Brendan Kelly

Mental Illness, Human Rights and the Law by Brendan Kelly
New Medicalism by John Fanning



I’m not sure which other legal books to recommend as most of them are quite ‘dry.’ Is there any particular area you’re interested in e.g. human rights, jurisprudence, mental capacity, negligence etc?



Alex Keene is a barrister who writes on recent case law and updates on Mental Capacity Law in a way that is easy to understand:

https://www.mentalcapacitylawandpolicy.org.uk/



He also offers a mini-series of videos that cover the Mental Capacity Act, Mental Health Act and how one balances welfare and autonomy:

https://www.mentalcapacitylawandpolicy.org.uk/shedinars/



Lucy Series is a legal academic who writes about autonomy, deprivation of liberty and human rights within a medical context, again in an easy to understand way:

https://thesmallplaces.wordpress.com/



Hope I haven’t overwhelmed you. I’d love to hear books that you’ve read that have perked your interest!
Original post by Angury
Regarding law and sociology, I have another long list (sorry!).


Don't apologise, this looks so interesting :smile: Christmas list sorted :biggrin:
These are the books that have had most of an impact on me:



Cultural:

Madness and modernism by Louis Sass

Outsiders: Studies in Sociology of Deviance by Howard Becker

Violence: A Public Health Menace and a Public Health Approach by Sandra Bloom
Forensic Mental Health: Concepts, Systems and Practice by Annie Bartlett

Introducing Levi Strauss and Structural Anthropology
Anthropological Approaches to Psychological Medicine: Crossing Bridges by Vieda Skultans

The Society of the Spectacle by Guy Debord

Dangerous People: Policy, Prediction and Practice by Bernadette McSherry

Structural Anthropology by Claude Levi-Strauss

Psychiatry in Context: Experience, Meaning & Communities by Philip Thomas

The Public Value of the Social Sciences: An Interpretive Essay by John Brewer

On the Sociology of Medicine & Civilization and Disease by Henry Sigerist

Subjectivity: Ethnographic Investigations by Joao Biehl
Soteria by Loren Mosher
Limits to Medicine: Medical Nemesis, The Expropriation by Ivan Illich

Narrative Based Medicine by Tisha Greenhalgh

Aylums: Essays on the Social Situation of Mental Patients and Other Inmates by Erving Goffman
Exploring Medical Anthropology by Donald Joralemon
Mind, Modernity, Madness: The Impact of Culture on Human Experience by Liah Greenfeld
Steps to an Ecology of Mind: Collected Essays in Anthropology, Psychiatry, Evolution and Epistemology by Gregory Bateson

Suicide: A Study in Sociology by Emile Durkheim
The Rise and Fall of Modern Medicine by James Le Fanu



I’ve given a broad list as there are a lot of different aspects of medical anthropology. A good starting place is The Rise and Fall of Modern Medicine by Le Fanu and Limits to Medicine by Illich which are well written, easy to follow and will give you an idea of what you want to read about further. Of the mental health anthropology books, I would say the best writer is Arthur Kleinman.





Books by Arthur Kleinman:
Social Suffering
Writing at the Margin: Discourse between Anthropology and Medicine
Patients and Healers in the Context of Culture: An exploration of the borderland between Anthropology, Medicine and Psychiatry
Deep China: The Moral Life of the Person, What Anthropology and Psychiatry Tell Us about China Today
Pain as Human Experience: An Anthropological Perspective

Culture and Depression: Studies in the Anthropology and Cross-Cultural Psychiatry of Affect and Disorder



As you can see, Kleinman writes a lot about mental illness and anthropology. He is a fantastic writer and his books are interspersed by case studies which illustrate his points beautifully. If you are interested in this area, I would highly recommend starting with Arthur Kleinman.


Thanks, it's especially useful to have starting points as (my experience at least) is that it's easy to be interested and hard to find more 'academic' starting points that are readable. I used to just grab stuff from the school library but uni libraries feel less browsable.

I’m also thrilled to hear you are interested in Law. I am actually undertaking postgraduate studies in Mental Health Law at the moment so have a lot to say about the topic! Below are some books about mental health law to get you started.


A postgrad in Mental Health Law sounds awesome! Can I ask what you're doing and kind of how you got there? :smile:



Law:
Human rights: a very short introduction by Andrew Clapham

Dignity, mental health and human rights: coercion and the law by Brendan Kelly

Mental Illness, Human Rights and the Law by Brendan Kelly
New Medicalism by John Fanning



I’m not sure which other legal books to recommend as most of them are quite ‘dry.’ Is there any particular area you’re interested in e.g. human rights, jurisprudence, mental capacity, negligence etc?


Yeah, this sort of thing can be really 'dry'.
I guess I haven't read enough to really know what I'm interested in but essentially how law interacts with medical practice (as if that's not incredibly broad) and maybe more of a 'legal' perspective on medicine? Sorry if that's too vague.
We've been looking at capacity and negligence in lectures which I did find pretty interesting.



Alex Keene is a barrister who writes on recent case law and updates on Mental Capacity Law in a way that is easy to understand:

https://www.mentalcapacitylawandpolicy.org.uk/



He also offers a mini-series of videos that cover the Mental Capacity Act, Mental Health Act and how one balances welfare and autonomy:

https://www.mentalcapacitylawandpolicy.org.uk/shedinars/



Lucy Series is a legal academic who writes about autonomy, deprivation of liberty and human rights within a medical context, again in an easy to understand way:

https://thesmallplaces.wordpress.com/



Hope I haven’t overwhelmed you. I’d love to hear books that you’ve read that have perked your interest!


I'm not overwhelmed, I'm quite excited :biggrin:

Most of what I've read that made me interested is on your previous list already :rofl:
I really enjoyed Dr Yalom's work and his insights into clinical practice on a deeper level, and I found Doctoring the Mind: Is our current treatment of mental illness really any good? interesting but I wasn't sure how much I agreed with it! It was thought-provoking though and I think it made me realise how much there is to think about in medicine and in mental health. I also did an extended essay on psychiatry and women that was mainly based on Mad, Bad And Sad: A History of Women and the Mind Doctors from 1800 to the Present by Lisa Appignanesi which was massive but which really helped me centre some of the historical context.

As part of my Philosophy Pre-U (=A level) we discussed Durkheim, Freud, and Jung and had a little bit of sociology and anthropology in the syllabus which I really wanted to learn more about but couldn't find anywhere to get started that didn't seem overly academic and inaccessible, or too "basic". I've enjoyed reading about Foucault and Szasz, but didn't quite dare go near the texts on my own :tongue:
Reply 9
Original post by becausethenight
Don't apologise, this looks so interesting :smile: Christmas list sorted :biggrin:


Thanks, it's especially useful to have starting points as (my experience at least) is that it's easy to be interested and hard to find more 'academic' starting points that are readable. I used to just grab stuff from the school library but uni libraries feel less browsable.



A postgrad in Mental Health Law sounds awesome! Can I ask what you're doing and kind of how you got there? :smile:





Yeah, this sort of thing can be really 'dry'.
I guess I haven't read enough to really know what I'm interested in but essentially how law interacts with medical practice (as if that's not incredibly broad) and maybe more of a 'legal' perspective on medicine? Sorry if that's too vague.
We've been looking at capacity and negligence in lectures which I did find pretty interesting.





I'm not overwhelmed, I'm quite excited :biggrin:

Most of what I've read that made me interested is on your previous list already :rofl:
I really enjoyed Dr Yalom's work and his insights into clinical practice on a deeper level, and I found Doctoring the Mind: Is our current treatment of mental illness really any good? interesting but I wasn't sure how much I agreed with it! It was thought-provoking though and I think it made me realise how much there is to think about in medicine and in mental health. I also did an extended essay on psychiatry and women that was mainly based on Mad, Bad And Sad: A History of Women and the Mind Doctors from 1800 to the Present by Lisa Appignanesi which was massive but which really helped me centre some of the historical context.

As part of my Philosophy Pre-U (=A level) we discussed Durkheim, Freud, and Jung and had a little bit of sociology and anthropology in the syllabus which I really wanted to learn more about but couldn't find anywhere to get started that didn't seem overly academic and inaccessible, or too "basic". I've enjoyed reading about Foucault and Szasz, but didn't quite dare go near the texts on my own :tongue:


I agree, Yalom is an excellent writer. I think his book, Existential Psychotherapy probably had the biggest impact on me, and the concepts raised in that book are ones that I still use when speaking to patients today. One thing I like about his writing is that it's rarely abstract; you can apply his ideas both to yourself and your patients. Psychoanalysis is an area I find particularly fascinating and is a very different way of thinking of mental health that I am increasingly finding to be relevant to both my patients and myself. Jessica Yakely (Consultant Forensic Psychiatrist & Psychotherapist) has written a few, short articles on the topic of emotional intelligence amongst medical students and psychoanalytic training which you may find interesting (you should have free access via your medical school):

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(18)30052-X/fulltext

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-psychiatric-bulletin/article/psychiatry-subjectivity-and-emotion-deepening-the-medical-model/50F41601D3F21436EE5D4CCB3F2BCB0E

I really like Bentall's work, particularly his debates and speeches. I also don't agree with all of his opinions, but his work really opened my eyes to non-medical perspectives on mental illness. He is quite a regular speaker and is involved in a lot of events so you could easily attend one of his speeches/debates once the pandemic is over.

Your essay sounds very interesting! The treatment of women within Psychiatry is something I have become increasingly interested in (I am currently working in a forensics unit for women with 'challenging behaviour'). I've really started to appreciate how much of an impact our culture and expectations of women (including unconscious beliefs) have an impact on how women perceive themselves and display their emotions. There was an excellent book that was released this year by psychologist Jessica Taylor provocatively titled 'Why Women are Blamed for Everything: Exploring Victim Blaming of Women Subjected to Abuse and Trauma' which explores her PhD thesis while offering case studies, empirical evidence and well-argued discussions on how women who go through trauma are perceived and judged in our society. I learnt a lot from that book.

I agree with you, I found Foucault incredibly difficult and had to give up trying to read his work. However, I actually found Szasz easy to read; I would definitely recommend trying his work. You may disagree with may of his arguments, but I think his position is very important to understand when we think about how patients and psychiatrists perceive themselves today. I also think Erving Goffman's Asylums is a very important text for both Psychiatry and Anthropology.

Regarding looking at medical law, the Medical Law review journal is a good place to start. The journal covers current cases and their impact on medical practice as well as the legal factors. The articles are always well written and explain the concepts well (although you may need to do some googling at times). Some examples of articles you may be interested in include:

https://academic.oup.com/medlaw/article/8/1/85/938930?searchresult=1
The impact of one particular case (Montgomery) on medical negligence and how society now expects doctors to deliver patient-centered care rather than paternalistic input.

https://academic.oup.com/medlaw/article/24/3/396/2733270?searchresult=1
https://academic.oup.com/medlaw/article-abstract/17/1/1/937473?redirectedFrom=fulltext
Two articles that coves the concept of 'best interests' within the Mental Capacity Act and what it actually means for respecting the values and beliefs of our patients.

Regarding my own studies, I completed an LLM in Mental Health Law when I was doing my F1, F2 & CT1 jobs and am just about to start a PhD in Mental Health Law & International Human Rights Law(!)

Like yourself, I became interested in this area in medical school after receiving some interesting lectures but mainly when I started working as an F1 and started questioning the paternalistic nature of our current practice. One think I particularly enjoy in my legal studies is the different approach that is taken; it's a completely different way of thinking of things compared to Medicine and I find myself becoming a more critically analytical thinker but also having greater awareness for my patients rights (especially important as I work in secure services) and how our societies views impact on human rights legislation.

At the moment, I think you're off to a great start. Do a lot of wide reading and take in as many opinions, perspectives and views as you can. Then you can start to develop your own opinions and think about how things should be different!
Original post by Angury
I agree, Yalom is an excellent writer. I think his book, Existential Psychotherapy probably had the biggest impact on me, and the concepts raised in that book are ones that I still use when speaking to patients today. One thing I like about his writing is that it's rarely abstract; you can apply his ideas both to yourself and your patients. Psychoanalysis is an area I find particularly fascinating and is a very different way of thinking of mental health that I am increasingly finding to be relevant to both my patients and myself. Jessica Yakely (Consultant Forensic Psychiatrist & Psychotherapist) has written a few, short articles on the topic of emotional intelligence amongst medical students and psychoanalytic training which you may find interesting (you should have free access via your medical school):

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(18)30052-X/fulltext

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-psychiatric-bulletin/article/psychiatry-subjectivity-and-emotion-deepening-the-medical-model/50F41601D3F21436EE5D4CCB3F2BCB0E


I appreciate his writing style a lot, his books are a joy to read. I haven't read Existential Psychotherapy (mostly as it seemed aimed at clinicians :lol:) but it looks like one I want to get to sooner rather that later (before placement?)

Psychoanalysis is having a bit of a resurgence, isn't it :smile:

I really like Bentall's work, particularly his debates and speeches. I also don't agree with all of his opinions, but his work really opened my eyes to non-medical perspectives on mental illness. He is quite a regular speaker and is involved in a lot of events so you could easily attend one of his speeches/debates once the pandemic is over.


I'll keep an eye out for sure :yep: He's amazingly prolific.

Your essay sounds very interesting! The treatment of women within Psychiatry is something I have become increasingly interested in (I am currently working in a forensics unit for women with 'challenging behaviour'). I've really started to appreciate how much of an impact our culture and expectations of women (including unconscious beliefs) have an impact on how women perceive themselves and display their emotions. There was an excellent book that was released this year by psychologist Jessica Taylor provocatively titled 'Why Women are Blamed for Everything: Exploring Victim Blaming of Women Subjected to Abuse and Trauma' which explores her PhD thesis while offering case studies, empirical evidence and well-argued discussions on how women who go through trauma are perceived and judged in our society. I learnt a lot from that book.


I had one idea I was pleased with and then the essay suffered from "written up in one manic binge before the internal deadline" so :biggrin:
I'd read the Bell Jar and was struck by some of the similarities with young women I knew in 2019, so it was fascinating to research, though. The book you mention sounds pretty harrowing, but I'm keen to have a look - it feels like something that gets discussed but often not in depth (if that makes sense)

My med school did have a lecture on unconscious bias and cultural expectations, but I don't think many people turned up!

I would be really interested to hear more about your work at the moment if that's OK - how are you finding the forensics unit? Can you apply these kinds of sociological insights to your practice?

I agree with you, I found Foucault incredibly difficult and had to give up trying to read his work. However, I actually found Szasz easy to read; I would definitely recommend trying his work. You may disagree with may of his arguments, but I think his position is very important to understand when we think about how patients and psychiatrists perceive themselves today. I also think Erving Goffman's Asylums is a very important text for both Psychiatry and Anthropology.


Thanks, that's encouraging! Having a look there are several of his books in the library; I'm guessing "The myth of mental illness : foundations of a theory of personal conduct" is the one to start with?


Regarding looking at medical law, the Medical Law review journal is a good place to start. The journal covers current cases and their impact on medical practice as well as the legal factors. The articles are always well written and explain the concepts well (although you may need to do some googling at times). Some examples of articles you may be interested in include:

https://academic.oup.com/medlaw/article/8/1/85/938930?searchresult=1
The impact of one particular case (Montgomery) on medical negligence and how society now expects doctors to deliver patient-centered care rather than paternalistic input.

https://academic.oup.com/medlaw/article/24/3/396/2733270?searchresult=1
https://academic.oup.com/medlaw/article-abstract/17/1/1/937473?redirectedFrom=fulltext
Two articles that coves the concept of 'best interests' within the Mental Capacity Act and what it actually means for respecting the values and beliefs of our patients.


I'll have a plough through those, thanks :smile: Any tips for reading legal articles, if they're needed?


Regarding my own studies, I completed an LLM in Mental Health Law when I was doing my F1, F2 & CT1 jobs and am just about to start a PhD in Mental Health Law & International Human Rights Law(!)


:eek: that's so cool!
This might sound very silly, but does that mean that you're a lawyer as well? I assume not?

How difficult was it to combine a LLM with FY/CT1? We have obligatory intercalation so I was thinking of maybe intercalating in something law/social science related, but it's a long way off obviously.

Like yourself, I became interested in this area in medical school after receiving some interesting lectures but mainly when I started working as an F1 and started questioning the paternalistic nature of our current practice. One think I particularly enjoy in my legal studies is the different approach that is taken; it's a completely different way of thinking of things compared to Medicine and I find myself becoming a more critically analytical thinker but also having greater awareness for my patients rights (especially important as I work in secure services) and how our societies views impact on human rights legislation.


Sounds really interesting :biggrin: It's nice to hear from someone who isn't doing lab science and that you feel it's relevant to your practice - I'd never heard of anyone doing that before except with educational stuff (but I am a first year :biggrin:)

At the moment, I think you're off to a great start. Do a lot of wide reading and take in as many opinions, perspectives and views as you can. Then you can start to develop your own opinions and think about how things should be different!


:ta: I'm looking forward to reading more, especially with a bit of structure/guidance!
Original post by Angury
Right, prepare to be spammed.



Spoiler





Apologies for the ridiculously long list. As I’m unsure what specifically interests you (perhaps you don’t know yourself!), I’ve given a general outline and haven't really covered in detail what each book is about and why I have recommended it. If there are any books that catch your eye I'm happy to discuss them in more detail and why I think they are worth reading.


Also, if there are any particular areas you would like to read more about, let me know and I’m happy to give recommendations on not only books but also videos, articles and debates.

Enjoy!

Wow thank you so much!
Reply 12
Original post by becausethenight

I would be really interested to hear more about your work at the moment if that's OK - how are you finding the forensics unit? Can you apply these kinds of sociological insights to your practice?



I love working in Forensics - it's what I want to do long-term. As a tertiary service we have a lot of resources that General Adult unfortunately do not have. We also have the luxury of time which means we can do (what I would call) 'real' psychiatry. We spend a lot of time exploring our patient's background, their relationships, their upbringing etc. There is a greater emphasis on psychosocial management rather than just prescribing antipsychotics (usually because of the risk to the public) and as a result, each patients treatment plan is unique to them.

I also love the legal side of it. I find Mental Health Law fascinating, and it is a big part of the job. You're involved in writing court reports and giving oral evidence, tribunals, prison assessments, custody reviews as well as working with non-medical organisations like Multi-Agency Professional Panel Agencies and the Ministry of Justice. It's interesting to work with other organisations and balance the risk to the public with your patients right to confidentiality.



Original post by becausethenight
Thanks, that's encouraging! Having a look there are several of his books in the library; I'm guessing "The myth of mental illness : foundations of a theory of personal conduct" is the one to start with?


I'd say Myth of Mental Illness would be the best place to start. It's his most famous book and imo a precipitant of the anti-psychiatry movement so important to understand and also easy to read.



Original post by becausethenight
I'll have a plough through those, thanks :smile: Any tips for reading legal articles, if they're needed?


I guess if the articles I sent you don't make sense, maybe have a read around certain concepts or the case first. Google is your friend. There are a lot of non-legal friendly websites that offer overviews and analysis of recent cases (including the two blogs I linked - especially Alex's) that provide critique of recent case law within mental health & capacity that are easy to understand. They also encourage you to think about the different ways that law professionals view the mental health & capacity laws compared to clinicians i.e. theoretical vs practical, and how these cases may change the way patients are treated. A good example is the case of Montgomery that led to the GMC changing their guidance to doctors about gaining consent from patients:

https://www.bmj.com/content/357/bmj.j2224

https://www.gmc-uk.org/ethical-guidance/learning-materials/blog---montgomery--judgement

https://rcpsg.ac.uk/college/this-is-what-we-stand-for/policy/consent/the-montgomery-case


Original post by becausethenight
:eek: that's so cool!
This might sound very silly, but does that mean that you're a lawyer as well? I assume not?

How difficult was it to combine a LLM with FY/CT1? We have obligatory intercalation so I was thinking of maybe intercalating in something law/social science related, but it's a long way off obviously.


To work as a solicitor you have to undertake the LPC which is usually a year-long course and to become a barrister you have to undertake the bar exam etc, which I haven't done. So I'm just studying law as an amateur academic for fun I guess. :tongue:

It actually wasn't that difficult balancing the LLM with work. I think I had a very supportive F1 and F2 year and my experience seems to be very different from those I've read on TSR. It was busy at times with on-calls etc, but I always left on time and I never brought my work home with me. I guess it's all about deciding what's important to you and how you want to spend your free time.
Original post by Angury
I love working in Forensics - it's what I want to do long-term. As a tertiary service we have a lot of resources that General Adult unfortunately do not have. We also have the luxury of time which means we can do (what I would call) 'real' psychiatry. We spend a lot of time exploring our patient's background, their relationships, their upbringing etc. There is a greater emphasis on psychosocial management rather than just prescribing antipsychotics (usually because of the risk to the public) and as a result, each patients treatment plan is unique to them.

I also love the legal side of it. I find Mental Health Law fascinating, and it is a big part of the job. You're involved in writing court reports and giving oral evidence, tribunals, prison assessments, custody reviews as well as working with non-medical organisations like Multi-Agency Professional Panel Agencies and the Ministry of Justice. It's interesting to work with other organisations and balance the risk to the public with your patients right to confidentiality.


Thanks, it sounds like a really interesting career path! :smile:



I'd say Myth of Mental Illness would be the best place to start. It's his most famous book and imo a precipitant of the anti-psychiatry movement so important to understand and also easy to read.


Thanks, I'll wait for that to come off loan :biggrin:





I guess if the articles I sent you don't make sense, maybe have a read around certain concepts or the case first. Google is your friend. There are a lot of non-legal friendly websites that offer overviews and analysis of recent cases (including the two blogs I linked - especially Alex's) that provide critique of recent case law within mental health & capacity that are easy to understand. They also encourage you to think about the different ways that law professionals view the mental health & capacity laws compared to clinicians i.e. theoretical vs practical, and how these cases may change the way patients are treated. A good example is the case of Montgomery that led to the GMC changing their guidance to doctors about gaining consent from patients:

https://www.bmj.com/content/357/bmj.j2224

https://www.gmc-uk.org/ethical-guidance/learning-materials/blog---montgomery--judgement

https://rcpsg.ac.uk/college/this-is-what-we-stand-for/policy/consent/the-montgomery-case


The BMJ article is much easier to read (because it's providing the context :rofl:) - thanks!




To work as a solicitor you have to undertake the LPC which is usually a year-long course and to become a barrister you have to undertake the bar exam etc, which I haven't done. So I'm just studying law as an amateur academic for fun I guess. :tongue:

It actually wasn't that difficult balancing the LLM with work. I think I had a very supportive F1 and F2 year and my experience seems to be very different from those I've read on TSR. It was busy at times with on-calls etc, but I always left on time and I never brought my work home with me. I guess it's all about deciding what's important to you and how you want to spend your free time.


Ah I see :tongue: Sounds more fun than just being a lawyer :wink:

It's reassuring to hear that you managed to balance both, normally you just hear horror stories about how busy FY doctors are!

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