No confidence in Keir Starmer

Literally can't think of anything good labour have done particularly in the last forty years. Inb4 NHS - that was devised by a liberal politician and supported by the Tories at the time.

Please tell me what labour has done and I'm sure I will find that this has had damaging long term implications to society and see ultimately driven by a cynical will to power. Case in point education:

Labour had the ridiculous idea that 50% of people should go to university. This has led to the devaluation of degrees, tuition fees, useless degrees and substandard universities. But a nice student vote goes to labour now every year.

Grammar schools - they gave bright poor students the chance at A quality education but were destroyed by labour who will still send their kids private or to elite "comprehensive" schools with a tiny catchment area. Predictably social mobility has decreased now thanks to the cult of labour equalism. Luckily most comp teachers are die hard labour supporters too which labour looks after no matter how bad they are.

Despite your Brexit views. This is the best post I’ve read on this forum this year. Absolutely spot on, especially regarding grammar schools.

They were solid on foreign policy to be fair albeit I'm one of the rare people who supports our holidays in the middle East.

Thanks 👍 My Brexit views are also much more nuanced than most brexiteers. I'd be relaxed about us staying in the EU if say Salvini was in charge (and then all the pro eu types will turn into brexiteers overnight)

Peter Hitchens really opened my eyes to the complete mess of the education system in iirc The Cameron Delusion.

Literally can't think of anything good labour have done particularly in the last forty years. Inb4 NHS - that was devised by a liberal politician and supported by the Tories at the time.

Please tell me what labour has done and I'm sure I will find that this has had damaging long term implications to society and see ultimately driven by a cynical will to power. Case in point education:

Labour had the ridiculous idea that 50% of people should go to university. This has led to the devaluation of degrees, tuition fees, useless degrees and substandard universities. But a nice student vote goes to labour now every year.

Grammar schools - they gave bright poor students the chance at A quality education but were destroyed by labour who will still send their kids private or to elite "comprehensive" schools with a tiny catchment area. Predictably social mobility has decreased now thanks to the cult of labour equalism. Luckily most comp teachers are die hard labour supporters too which labour looks after no matter how bad they are.

Ok well the last 40 years will be much much harder to as labour effectively and openly copied conservative polices during this period. Which is why most of our "middle ground" polices you speak of did long term harm, copying the Tories is only ever going to do long term harm.

I find it hard to defend Blairs stupid idea to devalue degrees and laden students with debt, a great idea... not! The tories love it like, a decade of Tory rule and it's just got worse something they can build on and treasure to do damage and blame us for the consequence. The grammar schools, i see that as part of a bigger picture, the failing of Thatcher's National curriculum, the biggest failure in this sector. Funny the only thing she placed regulation on was poor peoples education.... mmm I wonder.

However while the temmors of a state controlled health service proceeded the Labour party, this is where your story stops. This is another "labour closed more mines than Thatcher" type of pseudo point, as soon as you investigate the topic more clearer all is not as it seems. Churchill’s original Conservative Party voted against the NHS’ creation twenty-two times is the reality of it, even calling EB a "squalid nuisance”, such a lovely bloke and party.

Latest poll has the Tories 5 points ahead.

Mr Keir 'electable' Starmer strikes again.

We are our own worst enemy, as I said electing a london centric suit so interlinked with the failing of the last Labour opposition is not going to strike home. Have I been proved wrong?

We needed a pro small town, pro working class, pro British leader. I voted for Lisa Nandy, unfortunately our party is still in denial of reality. It's such a shame Corbyn didn't grow a backbone and support brexit and dragged his party into dropping the unpopular lib dem style indenity politics. Then focus on tackling real inequality, real inequality is only every about wealth, money buys opportunity then we may of had a hope.... however then theres the SNP which needs putting to bed. He had the policy he had the passion and the public was/is desperate for change.

The UK does not want Tony Blair mk2, hell if Tony Blair stood again they don't want him either.

He doesn't even have Blair's charisma or charm either.

Maybe the public will, after 14 years of the Tories, decide to give Starmer a go. But i just can't see it.

He has a complete personality vacuum.

Starmer believes in law and its power to improve lives, just a London liberal type set of laws.

Tories do seem to be getting a vaccine bounce.

We needed a pro small town, pro working class, pro British leader. I voted for Lisa Nandy, unfortunately our party is still in denial of reality.

It's such a shame Corbyn didn't grow a backbone and support brexit and dragged his party into dropping the unpopular lib dem style indenity politics. Then focus on tackling real inequality, real inequality is only every about wealth, money buys opportunity then we may of had a hope.....

Oh I think that's harsh, it's just what he does have is sucked out of him by his lack luster passion for anything .... what does he believe in?


People can see when someone is faking it, that was Corbyn's problem with brexit... and May's to a degree

I just don't think he's particularly passionate about anything. There's no fire in his belly, no sense of what gets him up in the morning. Just bland managerial centrist nothing.

What's your honest assessment of how Starmer has done? Am I overreacting thinking he's dull, a fence sitter, uninspiring and will lose?

Aside from Lib Dens, I just don't get who he appeals to.

Well he's basically Miliband in a better suit and with more pedigree but that's how I always thought of him, he was never going to inspire people in the way Corbyn did among the left but they obviously thought that the trade off for potential power was acceptable.

He's not doing much wrong per say but rather he's not quite taking some of the opportunities, his approval even if comparable to Boris is also much lower than I expected (he is highly vulnerable to a new Tory leader if they get the benefit of the doubt as per Boris and May early on).

Right now I suspect he'd lose (possibly Boris would struggle to retain his majority though) but then statistically I have never believed Starmer can get a swing higher than Cameron/Thatcher which is what is required. The best he has always been able to do is get close enough to betray the union to the SNP in return for power.

Miliband now actually has a sense of humour and charm that escapes Starmer. He's arguably Labour's best communicator.

A few months ago Miliband humiliated Johnson in the Commons over the UKIM Bill. He really made Johnson look small and clueless, and was funny in the process.

While Starmer makes good points, he never really makes Johnson look small.

For the first time in my life I am really considering not voting Labour at the next election.