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He's certainly the most competent Labour leader since Blair, but that's not really saying much at all.
Trouble is he appeals to people who are more likely to vote Conservative given his centrist approach. The most loyal Labour voters (the left to far-left) don't associate themselves with him; I recall BLM even referring to him as a ‘cop in expensive suit’. He may be a half-decent politician, but his party is certainly not fully behind him and he's unlikely to gain much support in an election either.
Trouble is he appeals to people who are more likely to vote Conservative given his centrist approach. The most loyal Labour voters (the left to far-left) don't associate themselves with him; I recall BLM even referring to him as a ‘cop in expensive suit’. He may be a half-decent politician, but his party is certainly not fully behind him and he's unlikely to gain much support in an election either.
He's definitely the most competent since Blair, I think. Labour are in a relatively strong position in the polls at the moment, which I don't think would have happened if he were not leader. That said, I think he's struggling at the moment due to the (probably correct) perception that he lacks any sort of real policy.
No.
Even Gordon Brown was more competent and popular with the unions & under 40s membership.
That said, I do hope that the current Labour leadership does not change before the next GE.
Even Gordon Brown was more competent and popular with the unions & under 40s membership.
That said, I do hope that the current Labour leadership does not change before the next GE.
Original post by JOSH4598
He's certainly the most competent Labour leader since Blair, but that's not really saying much at all.
Trouble is he appeals to people who are more likely to vote Conservative given his centrist approach. The most loyal Labour voters (the left to far-left) don't associate themselves with him; I recall BLM even referring to him as a ‘cop in expensive suit’. He may be a half-decent politician, but his party is certainly not fully behind him and he's unlikely to gain much support in an election either.
Trouble is he appeals to people who are more likely to vote Conservative given his centrist approach. The most loyal Labour voters (the left to far-left) don't associate themselves with him; I recall BLM even referring to him as a ‘cop in expensive suit’. He may be a half-decent politician, but his party is certainly not fully behind him and he's unlikely to gain much support in an election either.
I'm sorry, but as I've said to @DSilva do you want to win an election or not? Political elections are won in the centre ground. He appeals precisely to the centre ground. Yes, he could give an olive branch to "loyal labour voters," however that will not win Labour an election. This country is moving right. The only way Labour get back in power is if they ditch the identity politics, ditch the ******** and stab at the centre ground.
It absolutely infuriates me on this forum that Labour voters and members cannot see the opportunity in front of them. They'd rather bite their own nose off to spite their face, and stick to this 'loyal labour way' which absolutely bombed in the last election. Thanks to Corbyn, Labour avoided both covid, and Brexit. They are now there to pick up the pieces and all they have to do is elect someone who is slightly more electable, which they have done, yet they still keep banging the 'loyal labour' drum which is why you still have left wing nut jobs like Dianne Abbott who are still aboard the HMS Corbyn. It's pathetic. If Labour could get themselves sorted the next election is there for the taking but they cannot stop the infighting enough to see it. Like I said in another thread, appeal to the centre, get in power then move slowly to the left, its not rocket science.
Original post by imlikeahermit
I'm sorry, but as I've said to @DSilva do you want to win an election or not? Political elections are won in the centre ground. He appeals precisely to the centre ground. Yes, he could give an olive branch to "loyal labour voters," however that will not win Labour an election. This country is moving right. The only way Labour get back in power is if they ditch the identity politics, ditch the ******** and stab at the centre ground.
It absolutely infuriates me on this forum that Labour voters and members cannot see the opportunity in front of them. They'd rather bite their own nose off to spite their face, and stick to this 'loyal labour way' which absolutely bombed in the last election. Thanks to Corbyn, Labour avoided both covid, and Brexit. They are now there to pick up the pieces and all they have to do is elect someone who is slightly more electable, which they have done, yet they still keep banging the 'loyal labour' drum which is why you still have left wing nut jobs like Dianne Abbott who are still aboard the HMS Corbyn. It's pathetic. If Labour could get themselves sorted the next election is there for the taking but they cannot stop the infighting enough to see it. Like I said in another thread, appeal to the centre, get in power then move slowly to the left, its not rocket science.
It absolutely infuriates me on this forum that Labour voters and members cannot see the opportunity in front of them. They'd rather bite their own nose off to spite their face, and stick to this 'loyal labour way' which absolutely bombed in the last election. Thanks to Corbyn, Labour avoided both covid, and Brexit. They are now there to pick up the pieces and all they have to do is elect someone who is slightly more electable, which they have done, yet they still keep banging the 'loyal labour' drum which is why you still have left wing nut jobs like Dianne Abbott who are still aboard the HMS Corbyn. It's pathetic. If Labour could get themselves sorted the next election is there for the taking but they cannot stop the infighting enough to see it. Like I said in another thread, appeal to the centre, get in power then move slowly to the left, its not rocket science.
If anything Labour should become more woke.
Replace Keir with David Lammy and make Diane Abbot Shadow Chancellor.
Get rid of every toxic straight white male in the shadow cabinet.
Quadruple spending on the NHS
Abolish the Police and replace with social workers
Give Trident to Palestine
Amnesty for Illegal immigrants and pay them compensation
Make thought crime against minorities illegal.
Give every BAME person £10K as compensation for slavery
Original post by imlikeahermit
I'm sorry, but as I've said to @DSilva do you want to win an election or not? Political elections are won in the centre ground. He appeals precisely to the centre ground. Yes, he could give an olive branch to "loyal labour voters," however that will not win Labour an election. This country is moving right. The only way Labour get back in power is if they ditch the identity politics, ditch the ******** and stab at the centre ground.
It absolutely infuriates me on this forum that Labour voters and members cannot see the opportunity in front of them. They'd rather bite their own nose off to spite their face, and stick to this 'loyal labour way' which absolutely bombed in the last election. Thanks to Corbyn, Labour avoided both covid, and Brexit. They are now there to pick up the pieces and all they have to do is elect someone who is slightly more electable, which they have done, yet they still keep banging the 'loyal labour' drum which is why you still have left wing nut jobs like Dianne Abbott who are still aboard the HMS Corbyn. It's pathetic. If Labour could get themselves sorted the next election is there for the taking but they cannot stop the infighting enough to see it. Like I said in another thread, appeal to the centre, get in power then move slowly to the left, its not rocket science.
It absolutely infuriates me on this forum that Labour voters and members cannot see the opportunity in front of them. They'd rather bite their own nose off to spite their face, and stick to this 'loyal labour way' which absolutely bombed in the last election. Thanks to Corbyn, Labour avoided both covid, and Brexit. They are now there to pick up the pieces and all they have to do is elect someone who is slightly more electable, which they have done, yet they still keep banging the 'loyal labour' drum which is why you still have left wing nut jobs like Dianne Abbott who are still aboard the HMS Corbyn. It's pathetic. If Labour could get themselves sorted the next election is there for the taking but they cannot stop the infighting enough to see it. Like I said in another thread, appeal to the centre, get in power then move slowly to the left, its not rocket science.
I'm by no means a Labour supporter, certainly not with their obsessive identity politics agenda which you mentioned!
You're completely correct that elections are won on the centre-ground, but what Labour are currently doing is chasing both the Conservative vote and the far-left (if that's the correct term) vote. They're trying to present themselves as a credible government and as a government of the people, while many Labour MPs seemingly sympathise with minority extreme-left views. You get people like Diane Abbott and Dawn Butler (who you rightfully describe as a 'left wing nut jobs'!) bringing up the issue of race every five minutes and endorsing the events of BLM last summer, while Keir desperately tries to drag the party away from that.
From my political standpoint, I'm more than happy for Labour to tank at the next election. I don't and likely never will support the bulk of left-wing policies they promote. My only criticism is that the Labour Party elected a leader who fails to represent what his party is about. Theresa May found out that when your party isn't behind you, you're stuffed! Keir either needs to completely reconstruct the Labour Party, or a more left-leaning leader needs to take charge. Otherwise the divisions Labour has developed will still be there in 2024.
Original post by Starship Trooper
If anything Labour should become more woke.
Replace Keir with David Lammy and make Diane Abbot Shadow Chancellor.
Get rid of every toxic straight white male in the shadow cabinet.
Quadruple spending on the NHS
Abolish the Police and replace with social workers
Give Trident to Palestine
Amnesty for Illegal immigrants and pay them compensation
Make thought crime against minorities illegal.
Give every BAME person £10K as compensation for slavery
Replace Keir with David Lammy and make Diane Abbot Shadow Chancellor.
Get rid of every toxic straight white male in the shadow cabinet.
Quadruple spending on the NHS
Abolish the Police and replace with social workers
Give Trident to Palestine
Amnesty for Illegal immigrants and pay them compensation
Make thought crime against minorities illegal.
Give every BAME person £10K as compensation for slavery
As a Conservative, I fully support this proposal.
It would mean Labour are permanently unelectable and loony-left policies are well away from government.
Original post by imlikeahermit
I'm sorry, but as I've said to @DSilva do you want to win an election or not? Political elections are won in the centre ground. He appeals precisely to the centre ground. Yes, he could give an olive branch to "loyal labour voters," however that will not win Labour an election. This country is moving right. The only way Labour get back in power is if they ditch the identity politics, ditch the ******** and stab at the centre ground.
It absolutely infuriates me on this forum that Labour voters and members cannot see the opportunity in front of them. They'd rather bite their own nose off to spite their face, and stick to this 'loyal labour way' which absolutely bombed in the last election. Thanks to Corbyn, Labour avoided both covid, and Brexit. They are now there to pick up the pieces and all they have to do is elect someone who is slightly more electable, which they have done, yet they still keep banging the 'loyal labour' drum which is why you still have left wing nut jobs like Dianne Abbott who are still aboard the HMS Corbyn. It's pathetic. If Labour could get themselves sorted the next election is there for the taking but they cannot stop the infighting enough to see it. Like I said in another thread, appeal to the centre, get in power then move slowly to the left, its not rocket science.
It absolutely infuriates me on this forum that Labour voters and members cannot see the opportunity in front of them. They'd rather bite their own nose off to spite their face, and stick to this 'loyal labour way' which absolutely bombed in the last election. Thanks to Corbyn, Labour avoided both covid, and Brexit. They are now there to pick up the pieces and all they have to do is elect someone who is slightly more electable, which they have done, yet they still keep banging the 'loyal labour' drum which is why you still have left wing nut jobs like Dianne Abbott who are still aboard the HMS Corbyn. It's pathetic. If Labour could get themselves sorted the next election is there for the taking but they cannot stop the infighting enough to see it. Like I said in another thread, appeal to the centre, get in power then move slowly to the left, its not rocket science.
If Starmer looked set to trounce the Tories in a landslide, or even just win, I could get behind him and accept him moving towards the centre.
But he looks absolutely hopeless and doesn't have a cat in yells chance of winning an election. So Labour have gone to the centre on every policy without any electoral advantage to doing so.
Oooph: 'Starmer promised us Corbynism without Corbyn but he's given Blairism without Blair'
Apparently left wingers want McDonnell to stand in a leadership contest. Tut tut white privilege strikes again! 🤣
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1394542/labour-party-news-keir-starmer-jeremy-corbyn-john-mcdonnell-boris-johnson
Apparently left wingers want McDonnell to stand in a leadership contest. Tut tut white privilege strikes again! 🤣
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1394542/labour-party-news-keir-starmer-jeremy-corbyn-john-mcdonnell-boris-johnson
(edited 3 years ago)
Original post by Starship Trooper
If anything Labour should become more woke.
Replace Keir with David Lammy and make Diane Abbot Shadow Chancellor.
Get rid of every toxic straight white male in the shadow cabinet.
Quadruple spending on the NHS
Abolish the Police and replace with social workers
Give Trident to Palestine
Amnesty for Illegal immigrants and pay them compensation
Make thought crime against minorities illegal.
Give every BAME person £10K as compensation for slavery
Replace Keir with David Lammy and make Diane Abbot Shadow Chancellor.
Get rid of every toxic straight white male in the shadow cabinet.
Quadruple spending on the NHS
Abolish the Police and replace with social workers
Give Trident to Palestine
Amnesty for Illegal immigrants and pay them compensation
Make thought crime against minorities illegal.
Give every BAME person £10K as compensation for slavery
Hahah well it's not far from doing some of that! Personally I think regardless of the labour leadership, the party is dying. As the last election showed, it is hugely out of touch with most rural and working class populations. Kier Starmer is a more down to earth leader than Jeremy Corbyn... but JC was probably a better leader in terms of having his party's support and showed strength and passion in his visions, thus being very popular with the radical left and student populations (not that they win elections). Tony Blair was a good leader, I think his politics have damaged the UK but that's besides the point.
Personally, I don't care about where labour goes - it's dying and has only itself to blame for not representing the common man. Gone are those days. The only problem is that it leaves a lack of good parliamentary scrutiny (which is important even if it's annoying if you're the government).
(edited 3 years ago)
Original post by SoonToBeExpat
Hahah well it's not far from doing some of that! Personally I think regardless of the labour leadership, the party is dying. As the last election showed, it is hugely out of touch with most rural and working class populations. Kier Starmer is a more down to earth leader than Jeremy Corbyn... but JC was probably a better leader in terms of having his party's support and showed strength and passion in his visions, thus being very popular with the radical left and student populations (not that they win elections). Tony Blair was a good leader, I think his politics have damaged the UK but that's besides the point.
Personally, I don't care about where labour goes - it's dying and has only itself to blame for not representing the common man. Gone are those days. The only problem is that it leaves a lack of good parliamentary scrutiny (which is important even if it's annoying if you're the government).
Personally, I don't care about where labour goes - it's dying and has only itself to blame for not representing the common man. Gone are those days. The only problem is that it leaves a lack of good parliamentary scrutiny (which is important even if it's annoying if you're the government).
Agreed
My hope is that with the death of the labour party the conservative party will split into its liberal and conservative halves and then we'll finally get the chance to vote for real patriots to change this country instead of the same crap we've had for thirty years
Great CV, looks respectable, but seems to have ****ed up virtually everything so far.
Needs to actually pick a direction and stop listening to everything that an advisor tells him. Politics is as much about what you don't say as what you do say - and at the moment, he seems to be scrabbling around for anything to say.
If he doesn't get better - and loses the next election - it's going to be a major problem for Labour. They need a sensible, centrist leader to win. If Starmer doesn't, it'll set back the sensible wing yet again and it'll slide back to factional infighting. A lot of people won't realise that the problem was the individual, not the positioning.
Needs to actually pick a direction and stop listening to everything that an advisor tells him. Politics is as much about what you don't say as what you do say - and at the moment, he seems to be scrabbling around for anything to say.
If he doesn't get better - and loses the next election - it's going to be a major problem for Labour. They need a sensible, centrist leader to win. If Starmer doesn't, it'll set back the sensible wing yet again and it'll slide back to factional infighting. A lot of people won't realise that the problem was the individual, not the positioning.
Not sure I agree with the OP.
While Starmer has a decent net rating it's because he does not actively generate revulsion from Tories, if you look into the detail of his polling you see that at 31-34% his raw PM approval is actually quite poor and he's arguably benefitting from the government losing votes rather than him winning them.
While it's too early to say the current polling picture suggests they will basically stand still in Scotland and Wales Vs 2016 and make relatively small gains in the local elections since Tory polling appears to be holding up well enough.
We will have to come back to this thread in May but right now he's probably going to underperform Miliband in 2011 and 2012 (2020 seats are actually the same map as 2012).
I like Starmer personally but he screwed himself getting a London seat and being Mr Remain, he's just not somebody that can be trusted and that woke europhile stain will probably prevent him from turning the electorate when all is said and done. He says the right things about unification but he actively fought in Corbyn's camp.
While Starmer has a decent net rating it's because he does not actively generate revulsion from Tories, if you look into the detail of his polling you see that at 31-34% his raw PM approval is actually quite poor and he's arguably benefitting from the government losing votes rather than him winning them.
While it's too early to say the current polling picture suggests they will basically stand still in Scotland and Wales Vs 2016 and make relatively small gains in the local elections since Tory polling appears to be holding up well enough.
We will have to come back to this thread in May but right now he's probably going to underperform Miliband in 2011 and 2012 (2020 seats are actually the same map as 2012).
I like Starmer personally but he screwed himself getting a London seat and being Mr Remain, he's just not somebody that can be trusted and that woke europhile stain will probably prevent him from turning the electorate when all is said and done. He says the right things about unification but he actively fought in Corbyn's camp.
(edited 3 years ago)
Bit of a low bar to go from.. a boring "one eyed ****", a treacherous brother and a fringe communist not exactly being the most impressive line up to be compared against. To be frank, its impressive how abysmally he's doing when compared both to the aforementioned point and the Tory party that is less delivering policy than spinning in circles killing thousands whilst its at it.
Starmer is certainly most like Blair, but without the lies. If he’s still leader come next election I might even consider voting for him
Edit: I retract and take back absolutely everything I just said
Edit: I retract and take back absolutely everything I just said
(edited 3 years ago)
Original post by jackmarshal757
Starmer is certainly most like Blair, but without the lies. If he’s still leader come next election I might even consider voting for him
Edit: I retract and take back absolutely everything I just said
Edit: I retract and take back absolutely everything I just said
I see, what is the reasoning behind your change in stance?
Original post by AidenPearce2020
I see, what is the reasoning behind your change in stance?
I woke up properly and realised I’d typed this half asleep
Original post by Napp
Bit of a low bar to go from.. a boring "one eyed ****", a treacherous brother and a fringe communist not exactly being the most impressive line up to be compared against.
You forgot corrupt egomaniac warmonger who ruined the country
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