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Should the small nationalist parties merge together/a new 'celtic' party be formed?

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Reply 20
Avatar for Quady
Quady
20
Original post by MatureStudent37
I think you’ll find it was a British project.

https://order-order.com/2019/09/10/leave-beat-snp-half-westminster-seats/

What exactly have we lost out on. Please do tell me.


More people voted for one option in a two option contest than voted for one option in a five+ option contest? wowser.

If and Guido are suggesting mire people wanted to leave the EU than leave the UK then you might need to factor in Green Party votes too.
Original post by DiddyDec
Probably should avoid celtic and nationalism in the same sentence given that neo-Nazis use celtic symbolism.
https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols/celtic-cross

Doesn't really given off the right vibe.

Umm... No, not really.
1. The name is literally exactly what it is; historically Celtic countries forming a nationalistic party so that they have a louder, unified voice at Westminster (especially post Brexit because now they'll be receiving no direct money from the EU)
2. You could just... Not use that symbol; there are plenty of nice-looking, non-neo-Nazi attributed Celtic symbols (and even if you did use it you would just be reclaiming the symbol which is a good thing anyway).
Original post by Quady
More people voted for one option in a two option contest than voted for one option in a five+ option contest? wowser.

If and Guido are suggesting mire people wanted to leave the EU than leave the UK then you might need to factor in Green Party votes too.


Merely throwing away some logic I heard after 2014 and after 2016.
Reply 23
Avatar for Quady
Quady
20
Original post by MatureStudent37
Merely throwing away some logic I heard after 2014 and after 2016.

....?

Appols, happy to explain myself from quotes from that time.

Edit
The account you're using joined in Jan '21
Which account were you using back then?
(edited 3 years ago)
Original post by Quady
....?

Appols, happy to explain myself from quotes from that time.

Edit
The account you're using joined in Jan '21
Which account were you using back then?


Just generally. TV, radio.

I had the same thing off a very pro remain friend over Christmas who was trying to explain the me that the majority of people didn’t vote for brexit.

he couldn’t understand that you can’t count or discount the opinions of those who couldn’t/ or wouldn’t vote.

we very much seem to be in a situation whereby people just don’t seem to be able to accept things when things don’t go their way. I don’t know if it’s a new phenomenon or something we’ve always had.
They already do act as an alliance in many ways, it's just that nobody in England votes for federalism (lib Dems) or to betray the union (greens).

Merging would mean SNP and English Greens having to share resources with Sinn Fein and Plaid who are comparatively poor in members and money.
Reply 26
Avatar for Quady
Quady
20
Original post by MatureStudent37
Just generally. TV, radio.

I had the same thing off a very pro remain friend over Christmas who was trying to explain the me that the majority of people didn’t vote for brexit.

he couldn’t understand that you can’t count or discount the opinions of those who couldn’t/ or wouldn’t vote.

we very much seem to be in a situation whereby people just don’t seem to be able to accept things when things don’t go their way. I don’t know if it’s a new phenomenon or something we’ve always had.

The majority of people didn't vote for brexit though, that's just fact.

The majority who voted did though and that's all that matters.

And what didn't go my way in either of those votes? I voted SNP for my MP and voted for Brexit. All I did was point out taking the %ages aren't comparable, especially if you don't count in those voting Scottish Green.
(edited 3 years ago)
Original post by Quady
The majority of people didn't vote for brexit though, that's just fact.

The majority who voted did though and that's all that matters.

And what didn't go my way in either of those votes? I voted SNP for my MP and voted for Brexit. All I did was point out taking the %ages aren't comparable, especially if you don't count in those voting Scottish Green.

Agree fully with that.

The SNP has historically been anti EU, anti NATO. They changed direction in the 80s/90s in order to try and win support. They’ve since flip flopped from Pro € to anti €, again wanting to gain more votes.

In short, they try and be all things to all people.

However, they’re ultimate aim hasn’t been successful. I suspect with brexit, as in WW2, the hardcore will side with whichever external threat to the U.K. can further their cause.

That’s probably why Sturgeon was offering up information to the EUs chief negotiator to weaken the UKs position, and has been merrily being decidedly unhelpful trying to sort out brexit related issues .

What I have found truly amazing in all of this is we’ve had anti EU SNP politicians, voting against brexit, whilst simultaneously demanding no deal be avoided yet voted against a deal.

Meanwhile, Holyrood seems to be unaccountable to nobody and is capable of some rather unsavoury dealings whereby (alleged) illegal activity by the party gets investigated by party officials .
Reply 28
Avatar for L i b
L i b
19
Original post by Napp
Er nill point. You need only look at who wanted Brexit (English tories) and who voted for it (England).


Two in every five Scots who turned out voted for Brexit. That's hardly small numbers. I can't help but think that people who try to make divisions like this have just as divisive an agenda as the Brexiteers. The reality is that London and other parts of England were just as opposed, if not more so, to Brexit than Scotland.
Original post by Napp
Er nill point. You need only look at who wanted Brexit (English tories) and who voted for it (England).

Wales would like to remind you it exists. :colonhash:

45% of NI folk would also like to remind you they exist (and until Brexit at least the comfortable DUP wins would suggest they did not much regret it). :colonhash:

Remember that there are plenty of nominal remoaners who when it came to it did not care about Brexit over other issues (notably the Tories held a lot of their remainers).
Reply 30
Avatar for Quady
Quady
20
Original post by MatureStudent37
Holyrood seems to be unaccountable to nobody

That is not untrue.
Original post by Quady
That is not untrue.

One would argue the current inquiry shows that its lost its way.
Reply 32
Avatar for Quady
Quady
20
Original post by MatureStudent37
One would argue the current inquiry shows that its lost its way.

Parliament shouldn't have run inquiry you mean?
Original post by Quady
Parliament shouldn't have run inquiry you mean?

Parliament shouldn’t be running an inquiry where they won’t allow the plaintiff to disclose evidence, and the main witness for the defence is not only involved in the (alleged) conspiracy, but is also the husband of the main protagonist.

The SNP has stifled opposition in many ways including putting partisan civil servants and judges in key positions, threatening journalists and leaking personal information about opponents to allow its supporters to target and intimidate them on line.
Reply 34
Avatar for Quady
Quady
20
Original post by MatureStudent37
Parliament shouldn’t be running an inquiry where they won’t allow the plaintiff to disclose evidence, and the main witness for the defence is not only involved in the (alleged) conspiracy, but is also the husband of the main protagonist.

The SNP has stifled opposition in many ways including putting partisan civil servants and judges in key positions, threatening journalists and leaking personal information about opponents to allow its supporters to target and intimidate them on line.

Which civil servants are partisan? SPADS you mean? Or who?

How come the plaintiff isn't able to disclose evidence? The plaintiff is parliament and would be covered by under parliamentary privilege. So who is stopping the plaintiff bringing evidence...?
Reply 35
Avatar for Napp
Napp
22
Original post by Rakas21
Wales would like to remind you it exists. :colonhash:

45% of NI folk would also like to remind you they exist (and until Brexit at least the comfortable DUP wins would suggest they did not much regret it). :colonhash:

Remember that there are plenty of nominal remoaners who when it came to it did not care about Brexit over other issues (notably the Tories held a lot of their remainers).


I cant say i'm familiar with these places :colone:
At any rate the point stands, there was never any real clamouring for Brexit in the smaller constiuent parts of the UK it was always a Tory English project.
Whether they support it ex post facto or not remains to be seen but in terms of who harangued who for the vote and how the voting played out the numbers are fairly conclusive, no?
Reply 36
Avatar for Napp
Napp
22
Original post by L i b
Two in every five Scots who turned out voted for Brexit. That's hardly small numbers. I can't help but think that people who try to make divisions like this have just as divisive an agenda as the Brexiteers. The reality is that London and other parts of England were just as opposed, if not more so, to Brexit than Scotland.


Indeed, but in the same vein as the huge minority who voted to remain, apparently their voice is not worth a pittance. One is merely following that logic, although it is somewhat stronger i nthe case of Scotland where, what was it, 60% or so were in favour of remaining?
You're not wrong on the divisiveness count though.
Original post by Quady
Which civil servants are partisan? SPADS you mean? Or who?

How come the plaintiff isn't able to disclose evidence? The plaintiff is parliament and would be covered by under parliamentary privilege. So who is stopping the plaintiff bringing evidence...?

The civil service should always be impartial.

A SPAD isn’t a civil servant. A civil servant isn’t a SPAD.

There are significant differences between the two.
Reply 38
Avatar for Quady
Quady
20
Original post by MatureStudent37
The civil service should always be impartial.

A SPAD isn’t a civil servant. A civil servant isn’t a SPAD.

There are significant differences between the two.

You might need to update Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_adviser_(UK)

And whoever runs this site
https://civilservant.org.uk/spads-homepage.html

Yes there are significant differences, but they are still civil servants. I was just looking to clarify who you mean. SPADs seemed the obvious area to clarify.

Which civil servants do you mean then? All of them? All the SCS in SG? Directors and above? DGs and Perm Sec or the Perm Sec?
Original post by Quady
You might need to update Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_adviser_(UK)

And whoever runs this site
https://civilservant.org.uk/spads-homepage.html

Yes there are significant differences, but they are still civil servants. I was just looking to clarify who you mean. SPADs seemed the obvious area to clarify.

Which civil servants do you mean then? All of them? All the SCS in SG? Directors and above? DGs and Perm Sec or the Perm Sec?

There are significant differences between civil servants and SPADs.

Think of the series ‘the thick of it.’ Malcolm Tucker was a SPAD, not a civil servant.

The key is who pays the pension.

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