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War on Woke

Unis should encourage a wide range of ideas and free speech including those not "state approved" such as criticism of Boris and co, but the line has to be drawn at extremism as that is a danger to society.

I disagree with this. All ideas should be freely discussed.

Reply 21

harrysbar

OP

21

Original post by Theloniouss

I disagree with this. All ideas should be freely discussed.

I agree with your right to express your opinion (unlike the Woke brigade) :h:

Reply 22

username4969948

16

Original post by harrysbar

I agree with your right to express your opinion (unlike the Woke brigade) :h:

You've literally said in this thread that the line has to be drawn at ideas that are dangerous to society.

You are no different from the woke brigade.

Reply 23

harrysbar

OP

21

Original post by Kitten in boots

You've literally said in this thread that the line has to be drawn at ideas that are dangerous to society.

You are no different from the woke brigade.

I was agreeing with Theloniouss that they have the right to express their opinion on this thread.

I am different to the Woke brigade as I don't object to people having an opinion that isn't politically correct as long as they express it politely and in a way that isn't actually dangerous to anyone.

Anyway, what's your opinion on the thread title, the War on Woke?

Reply 24

username4926212

11

Original post by harrysbar

As universities face fines for being "too woke" and heritage groups are told that "public funds must never be used for political purposes" the government announce the appointment of a Free Speech Champion to defend free speech and academic freedom on campuses.

A recent poll shows that 49% of Britons believe they are less free to say what they think than five years ago, which is exemplified by the hate thrown at certain celebrities who dare to voice an unwoke opinion. Or as the Telegraph put it, Is cancel culture the modern days witch trials?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/02/13/exclusive-universities-face-fines-part-twin-assault-cancel-culture/

Unfortunately I can't read the article. So from The Daily Mail on the same subject

[Oliver Dowden] is expected to tell them 'to defend our culture and history from the noisy minority of activists constantly trying to do Britain down'.

I find this extremely concerning.

Our understanding of history is not fixed. It changes in response to new evidence and new interpretations. As a believer of freedom of speech and academic freedom, I believe new ideas should compete in the marketplace of ideas. Sadly it appears the government wishes to stifle that because it doesn't like perspectives that challenge a rose-tinted view of British history.

The Conservative government is literally promoting cancel culture.

Reply 25

looloo2134

17

Original post by harrysbar

Of course they can - that is common sense and anyone who says otherwise is blinkered. I have Asian colleagues who openly say they wouldn't allow their children to marry a White person or a Black person.

Racism/Sexism/Homophobia is not confined to the "gammons" as the Woke label middle aged white men

In my experience growing up in London Nigerians look down on West Indians saying West Indians are poorly educated they much rather have their child marriage a White person.. They been know to disown their children for seeing a West Indian.
With Asian they don't like their children marrying the wrong caste religion ethic group etc.
Irish Travelers don't like their children even going to school with non travelers because they view non travelers as immoral.
Some English and Scots dislike each other.
Woke people do not notices this.

(edited 3 years ago)

Reply 26

MatureStudent37

13

Original post by _Wellies_

Unfortunately I can't read the article. So from The Daily Mail on the same subject

I find this extremely concerning.

Our understanding of history is not fixed. It changes in response to new evidence and new interpretations. As a believer of freedom of speech and academic freedom, I believe new ideas should compete in the marketplace of ideas. Sadly it appears the government wishes to stifle that because it doesn't like perspectives that challenge a rose-tinted view of British history.

The Conservative government is literally promoting cancel culture.

We’ve had a left wing political agenda taught in schools for decades now. The standard of knowledge of history is generally low and often looked at through a specific political lenses.

When I go way back to when I was doing my Highers, we covered the First World War. No mention of the causes of it. No mention of the Butchers bill. No mention of the features in which is was fought. No mention of its leaders, the huge technological strides made. The effects of the war on post war Europe.

The whole of my curriculum was based on the role of women in the war. No mention of nursing staff, the home front, the just women in munitions factories and how dangerous it was.

A very important topic, but with no context of the bigger issues, a meaningless topic. Of course munitions factories were dangerous, they were significantly safer than life in the front line.

it’s often been said that we have to question the official historical perspective, but we’ve got to the stage that so far the official historical perspective was the left wing perspective from 20 years ago.

We’ve now gone into the roles of ethnic minorities in the Great War. Yes, there was racism during that period of time, but the role of ethnic minority troops wasn’t as huge issue as the backdrop that was WW1. Indian troops were discriminated against by certain people, were poorly deployed at the start and the massive lost of native speaking officers at the start resulted in poor performance due to replacement officers not being able to communicate with their troops. French colonial troops ranged from good to appallingly behaved.

within a year or two we’ll no doubt move everything rather away from the history of WW1 and have people arguing over who had it harder. Women, ethnics or trans with nobody knowing the real history of the conflict

Reply 27

IanDangerously

20

People in general don’t like being put upon and told how to act or think by other people, which makes anything like the woke movement completely unsustainable.

The really “woke” crowd are starting to become the source of public ridicule in mainstream society much like abusive bosses, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons and preachy Vegans before them.

Eventually there is going to be an en masse rejection of wokeness and cancel culture, if it hasn’t started already.

Reply 28

-Imperator-

14

Original post by harrysbar

As universities face fines for being "too woke"

I don't think universities should be fined for espousing extremely progressive values.

Original post by harrysbar

and heritage groups are told that "public funds must never be used for political purposes"

Rightly so.

Original post by harrysbar

the government announce the appointment of a Free Speech Champion to defend free speech and academic freedom on campuses.

I think there's always a danger that Free Speech initiatives will become co-opted by unpleasantly right-wing actors (e.g. Toby Young's Free Speech Union).

Original post by harrysbar

A recent poll shows that 49% of Britons believe they are less free to say what they think than five years ago, which is exemplified by the hate thrown at certain celebrities who dare to voice an unwoke opinion.

Yep.

Reply 29

Napp

22

Original post by -Imperator-

I don't think universities should be fined for espousing extremely progressive values.

Why not? They're there to educate not peddle partisan politics.. There's nothing wrong with teachers/lecturers holding their own views but universities have no business doing that. Especially when the so called 'progressive' politics is about as regressive as you can get.. having some uncanny resemblences to the red terror, of all things.

I think there's always a danger that Free Speech initiatives will become co-opted by unpleasantly right-wing actors (e.g. Toby Young's Free Speech Union).

What exactly makes this thing 'unpleasantly right wing'? The theory behind seeming perfectly sound (people shouldnt be sacked for holding an opinion that twitter disagrees with) even if it has attracted certain elements that have violated the spirit of it. A comparison would be equating this with labour under corbyn and smearing everyone as a raving anti-semite.

Reply 30

harrysbar

OP

21

Original post by looloo2134

In my experience growing up in London Nigerians look down on West Indians saying West Indians are poorly educated they much rather have their child marriage a White person.. They been know to disown their children for seeing a West Indian.
With Asian they don't like their children marrying the wrong caste religion ethic group etc.
Irish Travelers don't like their children even going to school with non travelers because they view non travelers as immoral.
Some English and Scots dislike each other.
Woke people do not notices this.

True but you don't see woke groups going after those groups do you - in fact they seem rather discriminatory about who they target.

Reply 31

Megacent

13

Original post by harrysbar

Unis should encourage a wide range of ideas and free speech including those not "state approved" such as criticism of Boris and co, but the line has to be drawn at extremism as that is a danger to society.

Would there be a specific definition of what speech constitutes "extremism" or would it just be up to the uni to decide?

Reply 32

harrysbar

OP

21

Original post by Megacent

would it just be up to the uni to decide?

It definitely wouldn't be up to the individual unis to decide as they are the ones potentially being fined for being "too woke." According to the Daily Mail source highlighted by another poster, more than a third of British universities are imposing 'severe' restrictions on freedom of speech including Oxford, Cambridge and St Andrews, so these are the ones most in danger of being fined.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9258031/Government-appoint-woke-warden-powers-fine-universities-cancel-people.html

Reply 33

GodAtum

17

I've had one warning about speaking my views at uni, I will continue to ignore them.

Reply 34

DSilva

12

The only thing more annoying than woke people are those who incessantly go on about and complain about woke people.

Reply 35

DSilva

12

Original post by MatureStudent37

We’ve had a left wing political agenda taught in schools for decades now.

Yawn.

Reply 36

Ascend

13

Original post by DSilva

The only thing more annoying than woke people are those who incessantly go on about and complain about woke people.

Reply 37

harrysbar

OP

21

Original post by DSilva

The only thing more annoying than woke people are those who incessantly go on about and complain about woke people.

sounds like a lot of things are irritating you right now :console:

Reply 38

-Imperator-

14

Original post by Napp

What exactly makes this thing 'unpleasantly right wing'?

Toby Young's union only really exists to defend people's right to say unpleasant things on social media. His twitter history is a testament to this. It shouldn't be illegal to make deeply offensive comments in the public forum, but it shouldn't be condoned either.

We had a free speech society at my uni for people who wanted to debate controversial matters and be free to present heterodox opinions without any threat of backlash/stigmatisation. I know one of the founders. They were invited to take part in a freedom of expression campaign, which turned out to the work of Young's FSU. They found that the organisers were not interested so much in promoting free speech as they were in defending right-wing positions.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/jan/09/students-quit-free-speech-campaign-over-role-of-toby-young-founded-group

Reply 39

Azagthoa

12

Women, LGBT+ and especially BAME students should come to uni to find a place they are safe and free from the harmful, racist ideas that permeate British society. If that should mean that certain speakers are barred from speaking on campus, then so be it. Their right to speak should not come above the safety of marginalised groups. Black people especially face a constant fight to just exist every day in British society, universities should be inclusive and welcoming spaces for them. We need more antiracist speakers like Ibram Kendi and Robin DiAngelo.

War on Woke

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