Sanskrit 2: Electric Boogaloo!

First post!

I forgot to mention in the original post, but in the run up to the new academic year (and hopefully mostly over this bank holiday weekend!) I'll also try to chart my experience of this MOOC thing I've been doing on Zoroastrianism and Avestan language (especially the latter part!). I've been meaning to catch up on it for a while so hopefully this bank holiday weekend, where I am for once blissfully alone at home as everyone else (including dogs!) went camping, will let me do some quiet study and reflection :h:

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Reply 2

That's so annoying you can't study a degree at SOAS. Stupid systems grrrrrr :grumble:

Posting to subscribe, please do keep me tagged! Looking forward to following your language-learning adventures :biggrin:

Reply 3

Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd

That's so annoying you can't study a degree at SOAS. Stupid systems grrrrrr :grumble:

Posting to subscribe, please do keep me tagged! Looking forward to following your language-learning adventures :biggrin:

Thank you!

And yes it was a bit disappointing to learn :frown:

I was trying to see if I could make it work by living in poverty for one year then being able to study part time thereafter, but then when double checking the fine print to figure out what "exceptional circumstances" would apply to, I saw that actually they still class you as full time for fee purposes/SFE purposes so it was a no go :frown:

Still I'm not too sure what I would've studied had I stayed there...the linguistics course has been cut to a joint honours course only (and can't be combined with art history either sadly), South Asian Studies is gone and rolled up with all the other regional studies courses into the Languages & Cultures course which is a lot more generic (more general world lit/media courses than specific text based courses for each language) so there wasn't too much in terms of options :s-smilie:

The most likely candidate would've been anthropology and linguistics as a joint honours since I've been interested in anthropology and anthropological approaches to things for quite a while but that might've actually been a bad choice since it was one of the first degrees I was interested in applying to over 10 years ago in school and I think if I ended up doing that original plan after all this time and struggle I might've had a bit of meltdown :colonhash:

I guess at least it has the small benefit of forcing me to explore other options more widely! :tongue:

Reply 4

Updates

Work has been a little slow for the last couple days (unusually!) so I worked through a bit more of the Zoroastrianism MOOC, skipping ahead to the Avestan language bit which was the main reason I was taking it :colondollar:

It was quite interesting because the script and alphabet for it was very different to what I expected. For some reason I guess I thought it would be more similar to Sanskrit and devanāgarī, namely a syllabic alphabet (or rather, syllabary) with a script that went from left to right. But it is in fact a "regular" alphabet where each graph represents a single letter, and the script is right to left. I wonder if the script format was influenced by neighbouring Semitic languages like Hebrew which are often written right to left?

There are quite a few phonemes which are very unfamiliar to me, the course did include audio of them though but I'm still not great at distinguishing a lot of phones by ear. I couldn't tell if one of the /t/ sounds was aspirated or not for example. Interestingly the graph for that was very similar to the sign for the retroflex ṭa in Sanskrit, so I was wondering if Avestan had retroflex sounds. I think these entered Sanskrit from neighbouring Dravidian languages in South Asia rather than being a product of the Indo-European substrate though so I'd be surprised if it did. Something to look into!

Some of the words were very similar or even virtually identical to Sanskrit words, at least phonetically, such as the Avestan word for power which sounds phonetically very close to the Sanskrit word for warrior (?) kṣatriya- (also a root for other related words I think). Another one is manas in Sanskrit (I'm not as familiar with this word but it seems to be connected to various meanings relating to mind/intellect/understanding) and manah in Avestan meaning "thought". I seem to vaguely recall a discussion in our classes last year about -s and -ḥ endings being somehow related/equivalent in Sanskrit through some shift from Vedic Sanskrit (which as mentioned before was very close to, or arguably nearly identical to, Old Avestan) so the different ending may just be the result of a sound change over time.

I'm going to practice a little bit of writing some of the letters from the script as recommended by this course I'm following and see how well I remember them, probably over this weekend :smile:

I should also probably start thinking about personal statement writing soon :cry:

I have until January but the lecturer I asked to act as a reference for me has requested I send her the material I'm planning to submit with my application so she can have an idea of the whole picture so I need to send her my PS in enough time for her to be able to read it (along with the other info) and write my reference well before that deadline!

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Reply 5

Further Update

Disaster

my personal tutor rejected my linguistics module choices, apparently it was OK for me to take one such module last year but I would be taking too many outside the South Asian region this year if I take them so I need to rechoose my modules :s-smilie:

There just aren't that many modules in the area though now that everything has been rolled into the new languages and cultures programme...I am able to take modules from that course but they're mostly fairly generic and I wasn't really that keen on them...

Back to the drawing board I guess :/

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Reply 6

Original post by artful_lounger

Further Update

Disaster

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ARGH this sounds immensely frustrating, am sorry :frown:

This whole rolling things into new programmes seems to be messing things up a lot for you :s-smilie:

and doesn't sound that fruitful for many students anyway :s-smilie:

Lots of sympathetic hugs coming your way! :jumphug:

Reply 7

Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd

ARGH this sounds immensely frustrating, am sorry :frown:

This whole rolling things into new programmes seems to be messing things up a lot for you :s-smilie:

and doesn't sound that fruitful for many students anyway :s-smilie:

Lots of sympathetic hugs coming your way! :jumphug:

Thank to for the support as always :colondollar:

It is really stressful...I've found one module to replace one of the linguistics one which is an art history module on the Mughal period. It wasn't my favourite topic in the art history module last year but I did enjoy that module overall (and I did actually answer the Mughal period question as one of my exam essays).

The other one I'm still really stuck on...the only other module that might be interesting is one on ancient and medieval Indian philosophy (mainly focusing on Vedic and Upanishadic texts) but I'm very uncertain about that because I have no background in philosophy at all :s-smilie:

It technically has no prerequisites but it is a module for 2nd/3rd year philosophy students so I'm a little worried it will implicitly assume some background in philosophy generally. Also it's a term 1 module (like the art history module) so I would be basically full time study (including the audited module) for term 1, which since it seems I might have my contract extended for my job wouldnt be ideal...

The others I mostly don't meet the requirements for and/or am not really interested in taking :/

PS I saw ABBA reformed, that must be exciting for your research :biggrin:

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Reply 8

Original post by artful_lounger

Thank to for the support as always :colondollar:

That's cool you found an art history one, even if it's not quite ideal. Can understand your concern about the philosophy one :console:

A very tricky position to be in! :s-smilie:

Yesssssssssssssssssss :biggrin:

Reply 9

Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd

That's cool you found an art history one, even if it's not quite ideal. Can understand your concern about the philosophy one :console:

A very tricky position to be in! :s-smilie:

Yesssssssssssssssssss :biggrin:

Sorry for the delayed response, work has been manic this week! Yes, the art history module isn't an exact match for my interests but looks interesting even beyond that, plus it was the lecturer for some of my module last year so should be OK I think :smile:

Reply 10

Module Situation Update

On the module front my personal tutor has relented and suggested I could take one of the linguistics modules I already picked out along with the art history module. Of course, the one that I've been granted permission to take which I would prefer to take is also a term 1 module, so I would be taking full-time credits in term 1...which might be hard to manage if my contract is extended past the end of the month (it has been extended to the end of the month now, as part-time, so starting next week I have a little more time to catch up on everything!). But the philosophy module above is also a term 1 module! So all the modules I kind of am more keen to take, are term 1 modules :/

The term 2 options are second/third year politics/IR modules which I'm not too keen on because a) they focus on contemporary South Asia which while no doubt interesting isn't really my interest and b) I have no background in the politics/IR area. Otherwise there is a music module which I am absolutely not going to take because I am terrible at music! I don't think it's a performance module but also I think I'm as close to being tone deaf as you can get without actually being clinically tone deaf, so the listening exam would be an instant fail in that module...so I think that one is a hard pass from me! So the only term 2 module that I think I could reasonably take is the final option, a first year history module focused on South Asia. Which covers at least some of the periods I'm interested in, but I haven't done history (i.e. not of art :tongue:

) since year 9 (and for good reason!) :O

So either take a module I'm not too sure about and balance my workload across the two terms, or take one I'm slightly more sure about but have more work in term 1. Both are also wholly assessed by coursework, which seems nice on one level because not having to take an exam, but coursework is also stressful in a different way...plus it gets marked a bit more stringently! In the exam you get the benefit of the doubt a little due to the time scale and the format I think :s-smilie:

Tough decisions to make...I'm going to look a bit more at the content of each module over the weekend to make a judgement on Monday hopefully.

Reply 11

More Module Madness!

So it turns out I'm not going to be able to take the art history module because both lecture and seminar are going to be in-person on campus...in the middle of the day with almost all my other lectures. So to make it to campus I would need to begin commuting to London at 5:50AM then remain on campus all day to attend both the in-person classes and all my online ones because they're all more or less back to back or with too small a gap between them to get back home before the next online lecture starts...which I just don't think is going to be sustainable at all, especially if my contract gets extended past the end of the month at work :frown:

However I did hear back from the ancient and medieval Indian philosophy lecturer who assured me that it is an introductory module and doesn't presuppose any background in philosophy. So I will be planning to take that one instead of the art history lecture. I was originally interested in taking it last year actually but was advised to maybe wait until I had some background in Sanskrit so the terminology wouldn't be quite so alien to me. So knowing it doesn't assume any philosophy background is reassuring and aside from perhaps some "distraction" by linguistics is more in line with my original aims for doing this CertHE overall.

That leaves me back at my starting point of deciding on the second module though...although before I was leaning towards the linguistics option now I'm thinking maybe the history option is better? Having looked at it more, it focuses mainly on pre-colonial India which fits my interests, plus as a first year option it should be accessible (and the module leader confirmed it doesn't assume any background in history or historical methods like A-level History or similar). It also means that I'm a bit less pressured in term 1. It would also give me, between my modules, a reasonably broad introduction to pre-colonial South Asia, from both visual/material perspectives, intellectual history/philosophical perspectives, and more "traditional" historical perspectives.

Outside of module worries, my contract has been extended again to the end of the month but now part-time; once I have some idea of my timetable later in the month they will revisit it to see if I can be extended beyond this month part-time too. So that is good, I think? Good to have money coming in at least, however from the end of this month into next month it looks like work will become pretty manic due to a lot of major things coming up around that time :s-smilie:

In free-time world (such that it exists!) I watched that new Netflix show, Q-Force. In spite of the terrible initial trailer for it, it was actually really quite charming and cute, and much more character/plot focused than comedy focused (which was to its benefit). I enjoyed it overall, sadly I think the initial trailer put off a LOT of people who thought it was going to be borderline offensive pandering and stereotyped jokes all the time, so I'm worried it's not going to get picked up for a second season :/ Also I've found when I'm not working I kind of run out of things to do a lot without WoW taking up all my spare time...been napping a lot lately as a result :tongue:

I might get Monster Hunter Rise to fill that gap, plus unlike WoW an LoL I generally enjoy playing monster hunter (as usually if something goes wrong I feel like it was my mistake and I have to learn from it - whereas in the other games oftentimes it feels like it was someone elses mistake outside of my control screwing everyone over!).

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Reply 12

Sorry for being behind on the thread, have limited brain capacity atm and always prefer to give your thread my full attention :colondollar:

Great to know that the philosophy and history modules don't presume any prior knowledge/background/training - hopefully that encourages you to give them a go.

5.50am is NOT a time according to the TLG Theory of Time, just in case you were in any doubt about that :hand:

Oooh a music module! My PhD supervisor studied music (well, ethnomusicology) at SOAS :biggrin:

but yeah, it wouldn't be my cup of tea either :ninja:

so fair enough you don't wanna consider that :smile:

Great also that your workplace like you so much! :awesome:

Reply 13

Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd

Sorry for being behind on the thread, have limited brain capacity atm and always prefer to give your thread my full attention :colondollar:

Oooh a music module! My PhD supervisor studied music (well, ethnomusicology) at SOAS :biggrin:

but yeah, it wouldn't be my cup of tea either :ninja:

so fair enough you don't wanna consider that :smile:

Great also that your workplace like you so much! :awesome:

No worries, and thank you! Yes I agree 6am is way too early...I did used to have to get up then for work when I lived in Cambridge but there I just had to walk ~15 mins to my workplace then I could zone out while drinking a cup of tea for a couple hours so it wasn't so bad getting up that early :tongue:

Doing it to then get on a train (to then switch trains twice!) to go to London sounds torturous :redface:

Yeah music is not something I'm very good at in any capacity so definitely not a good idea I think both in terms of enjoyment of the module and actually doing well on it! :colondollar:

Much as I appreciate listening to music for enjoyment from an academic point of view I think I would struggle! Still vacillating on the linguistics vs history modules, planning to confirm with my tutor Monday so will keep thinking on it :s-smilie:

I was surprised they were so keen to keep me on, the agency that put me there did tell me when they were updating me on the extension apparently my work had really positive feedback about me when they did extend me last time so I guess they must be pretty happy with what I'm doing!

Reply 14

Modules Chosen!

So after all the back and forth I've selected as my non-language modules Ancient and Medieval Indian Philosophy and Introduction to the History of South Asia. Both are wholly assessed by essay, which has benefits and downsides!

The former I had considered taking last year as it seemed interesting due to mainly being focused on the Vedas (the RV and Upaniṣads mostly) plus some opposing (not sure if this is the right term?) philosophies (e.g. early Jain philosophy). However I had been advised not to take it until second year, then put off taking it because as a year 2/3 philosophy module I wasn't sure I had the right background for it. Since I got sort of forced to explore other options anyway, I got in touch with the lecturer and they assured me that it didn't presuppose any background and while a year 2/3 module was still introductory.

The latter is fairly broad ranging in an introduction to the history of more or less the Indian subcontinent, from the bronze age Indus Valley civilization through to the point of the East India Trading company bringing British colonial rule to India (this is where it cuts off so the course doesn't seem to focus much on contemporary colonial/postcolonial history). Hopefully this will help tie together the content I studied in the art history module last year, and the philosophy module above this year. I've not done any "history" since year 9 though which was...a very long time ago! So I am a little worried, but as it's a year 1 module hopefully won't be too arduous :s-smilie:

Otherwise the major update is I bought monster hunter rise for myself :colondollar:

It arrived earlier today so going to play it for a bit this evening :smile:

Not sure what weapon I'll play, I'm leaning towards insect glaive again since apparently they improved a lot of the weakpoints it had in monster hunter world!

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Reply 15

gjd800

Sounds good - that is the sort of stuff I teach! Indian philosophy and I've taught a couple of courses on modern Indian history (Hindu thinkers tie in quite nicely to Independence, post-Independence, Hindutva).

I think you'll love it!

Reply 16

Original post by gjd800

I hope so! The history module I'm not too sure what to expect, but the philosophy one did appeal to me previously so knowing it doesn't assume any prior knowledge of (western) philosophy is reassuring so I'm feeling hopeful that one will be good :biggrin:

Its all completely new stuff to me though in both cases so no matter what I'll definitely learn something (and hopefully will enjoy the process too!) :smile:

Reply 17

gjd800

Original post by artful_lounger

Its all completely new stuff to me though in both cases so no matter what I'll definitely learn something (and hopefully will enjoy the process too!) :smile:

In some ways not having the Western background will help you. I usually (not always!) find that people well-versed in Western are too quick to drawn weird comparisons that don't work, or are intimidated by how different this stuff is to what they are comfortable with. I'm excited for you tbh haha

Reply 18

Sorry for very late reply, but: exciting stuff :nutcase:

Wishing you the very best of luck for the term and academic year ahead :biggrin:

Reply 19