The Student Room Group

[Trigger warning] I tried to explain consent to my bf, am I to blame?

Background: I am a survivor of sexual assault and non-consensual sexual violence and rape. My boyfriend knows this, but on a few occasions had tried to do things I'd said I would do if and when I felt comfortable, and I had to say no multiple times or pull his hand away before he would stop. Once he just said "it is ok" and continued to try to penetrate me anally when I said no, and when I was visibly upset he said "I love you" and carried on.

I explained to him that it is sexual assault and rape, and he got annoyed, and said that he had 'always stopped when someone says no' or 'I always stopped if someone is uncomfortable' and "I have never raped someone in my life!" even though he had to me. I explained I need him to respect my consent and autonomy, and that it was very triggering and upsetting.

He would try to make out that me explaining or being upset was the problem, but it would happen again (trying to finger my ass even if I said no), he would try to say even if I touch your ass (cheeks) you get upset, which wasn't true, I got upset if he tried to finger my ******** if I said no multiple times, and if I tried to explain, he would get annoyed and say "you have already explained this!" even though he had done it again, and would act bored and annoyed and like I was the problem.

He went cold and distant with me, and I asked why, and he said "I am scared you make a problem for me, I didn't come to Scotland to go to prison!" and that I was "too strict and controlling at sex!" I explained that I had never threatened to go to the police or "make a problem" for him (though he knows I have spoken out about the other men who have harmed or sexuallly assaulted me since before we were together), and that if you sexually assault someone, that is the problem, not if they ask you not to, or explain about consent, or even if they do decide to report it or speak out, that the sexual assault is the problem, and the person I trust should never do that, and that I wanted to be with someone who cared about me. I said it is not "strict or controlling", I only can't do anal sometimes or let him finger me there sometimes, and to call someone "strict and controlling" so they would let you do it whenever you wanted, even if they aren't comfortable, was manipulative. I was able to do it regularly, but have IBS and explained I can't if it feels uncomfortable, so please stop if I say no (I had explained this before from the start - I said I have IBS but would try it if and when it felt comfortable.)

He understood, after a long time, but still if he touches my ass cheeks, says 'when I do this it doesn't mean I want to **** your ass', and I explained that I knew that, and have never had a problem with him feeling my ass, and that it is only when he tries to finger it and I say no and he carries on that it is a problem. It feels like he is trying to make out I am just unreasonable, when I've never ever had a problem with him feeling my ass, only trying to finger or penetrate the actual hole when I say no, multiple times, and he carries on.

He said this again last night when he felt my ass, and I explained that quickly, again, and he looked bored and annoyed. I went out of the room to do something, and came back and lay down with him. He started tickling me, and I kept saying "No, stop, please, I don't like it, I really mean it, I don't like to be tickled, please stop, I mean it" and he mimicked me, and carried on until I said 'stop! very seriously. I explained it was triggering, not because of tickling, but having to keep asking someone to stop and them carrying on reminded me of asking people to stop doing things sexually, or hurting me without consent, and them carrying on. That it made me have a physical response and it made me feel very panicked, and my whole body including my vagina to tense and tighten.

He said "I understand, you don't want me to joke with you" and I said that's not what I mean, it's just upsetting to have to keep saying no in relation to my body and have people continue because it reminds me of worse things, and he just kept saying "I understand, I just can't joke with you" and saying he didn't want to talk about it and screwing up his face, and I said I didn't want to argue, I just needed to know he understood and, and he got in my face annoyed saying he didn't want to talk and could I "f*ing" stop talking. I slapped him, I wish I hadn't, it was like a reflex response to him getting angry in my face, I got panicked and was saying I didn't want to argue and was sorry, and got in the bathroom and locked the door (I was meant to be away to take a shower). He screamed at me through the door to leave and get out of his flat, and I said sorry, and I didn't want to argue, and my voice was raised and panicked too, and he just shouted at me to leave and get out. I was upset and said I didn't want to argue, and then something snapped and I just kept shouting "It's my body!".

I went to the toilet and gathered all my things, 3 heavy bags worth, he told me to take my books from beside the bed too indicating he didn't want me to leave anything and we were finished. I left and it was after 12am, and dark and pouring outside, there were no taxis as town had been busy, my battery was low and my phone died after an hour, I'd tried to get an uber as I walked and tried to save some battery in case of emergency but it didn't last long. It took an hour to walk into town to hail a taxi, but there were none, my phone died, and it took another hour walking the rest of the way to my own flat, the 'best lit / safest' route being through a long main road in a fairly deserted, industrial area and around the outside of a big park that women have been attacked on the outsides of before, I was so scared and just tried to be strong and look tough, was soaked and carrying all my things. I know it is bad that I slapped him and was shouting "it's my body!", I understand he was within his rights to throw me out, but it is so dangerous walking home alone that late at night through those areas, and I wish he had just understood why it was upsetting to having to keep saying no and have someone not stop, even if it was tickling, it was still triggering, and I wish he had been understanding, and not shouted at me for explaining, or minimised it or put me down by saying "i just can't joke with you' and just hugged me and said that he understood, and it felt like he didn't care at all to throw me out and let me walk home alone with all of my things from after 12am - 2am by myself when women are being killed and raped, even by the police too.

I don't know if it's my fault and I feel so depressed, I don't know if I just ruined things, or if I'll always be alone because of PTSD from sexual assault and violence. I know it was right to try to explain when he carried on when I said no sexually too, he shouldn't have kept doing that, and to be honest that it was triggering and I wish he had been understanding that any non-consensual bodily touch and carrying on when we say no is very upsetting and triggering, that having to repeat "no, please stop, I mean it" and having it mimicked back to you is triggering and upsetting, if we have been seually assaulted before, and by them too. I wish he hadn't been dismissive and said "I just can't joke with you", and wish I hadn't slapped him when he got angry in my face. It all feels so much and I don't know if it's my fault and we are over.

Scroll to see replies

He sounds awful and needs reporting, to be honest. This is in no way your fault. If you say no, or even look uncomfortable without verbalising, a partner should stop straight away. I'm not surprised you slapped him to be honest, given the circumstances. I would stay far away from him and cut all contact!

Big :hugs:
Your partner is taking advantage of the fact that you are a survivor and that you don't have a stable relationship as a reference point

I'm so sorry this happened to you op
That was difficult to read. It must have been hard to write down as well - well done for doing so. I'm so sorry that this happened to you.

100% agree with the posts above - it's not your fault, and he didn't respect you or your boundaries. It sounds like you've had a really challenging and potentially traumatic set of experiences. Have you considered reaching out for support? There are a range of avenues through which you can get help via the NHS if you want to do so, or you could talk to a friend or relative you trust.
Reply 4
Original post by SummerStrawberry
That was difficult to read. It must have been hard to write down as well - well done for doing so. I'm so sorry that this happened to you.

100% agree with the posts above - it's not your fault, and he didn't respect you or your boundaries. It sounds like you've had a really challenging and potentially traumatic set of experiences. Have you considered reaching out for support? There are a range of avenues through which you can get help via the NHS if you want to do so, or you could talk to a friend or relative you trust.


Thank you, I have a counsellor I speak to each week, I will be talking to her tomorrow. I just felt like I ruined it when I slapped him, or kept trying to explain why it was triggering, he said he didn't want to talk and maybe I should have just stopped and tried to explain calmly the next day, or gone about it differently. It's so confusing, because I know those things happened, but when I talked to him about it, he said I didn't say no the time he penetrated me when I didn't want to; I know I did because he replied "it is ok', but in his mind he didn't rape me anally that time, and says he has always stopped if someone said no or is uncomfortable, but on lots of occasions now I've said no to him fingering my ass multiple times, then he got frustrated when I tried to talk about it.

I love him and just wanted everything to be ok, he gets annoyed and impatient if I ever try to talk about consent or seek reassurance if something doesn't feel right, and I just feel like I've ruined it once and for all last night, it was horrible. I don't know what to think but I think it was my fault for slapping him and shouting back.
Why do you keep ending up in relationships with dyckheads like this?

Most men do not behave this way.
Original post by Anonymous
I don't know if it's my fault and I feel so depressed, I don't know if I just ruined things, or if I'll always be alone because of PTSD from sexual assault and violence.

You're not at fault, you didn't ruin anything, and you will not always be alone. There are people out there who are understanding, will reflect on their actions when you explain that you don't like something, and won't try to make you out to be the problem. Your ex just isn't one of them.

He handled it badly and blamed you without taking any responsibility for his actions. To make myself look like a bit of an ass here, I can relate to your boyfriend, in that I occasionally overstep one of my girlfriend's limits (biting somewhere she dislikes) without thinking. When she reminds me I immediately stop and apologise. She's not at fault in anyway for not liking it, and one day I'll remember without being reminded, but until then it's a good thing that she reminds me whenever I do it - and I'm glad that she is comfortable enough with me to say no to me. I've never gotten angry, annoyed, or made little jabs at her for not liking it or telling me to stop. Any decent person should be able to listen to their partner telling them that something they are doing is painful or uncomfortable and be sympathetic to that.

In these situations the only solution is to throw out the whole boyfriend. If he attempts to come back to you, don't let him. If he didn't respect your boundaries before then he won't do so even if he promises to.
Reply 7
Original post by 1582
You're not at fault, you didn't ruin anything, and you will not always be alone. There are people out there who are understanding, will reflect on their actions when you explain that you don't like something, and won't try to make you out to be the problem. Your ex just isn't one of them.

He handled it badly and blamed you without taking any responsibility for his actions. To make myself look like a bit of an ass here, I can relate to your boyfriend, in that I occasionally overstep one of my girlfriend's limits (biting somewhere she dislikes) without thinking. When she reminds me I immediately stop and apologise. She's not at fault in anyway for not liking it, and one day I'll remember without being reminded, but until then it's a good thing that she reminds me whenever I do it - and I'm glad that she is comfortable enough with me to say no to me. I've never gotten angry, annoyed, or made little jabs at her for not liking it or telling me to stop. Any decent person should be able to listen to their partner telling them that something they are doing is painful or uncomfortable and be sympathetic to that.

In these situations the only solution is to throw out the whole boyfriend. If he attempts to come back to you, don't let him. If he didn't respect your boundaries before then he won't do so even if he promises to.

What if he made a mistake like you, I shouldn't have to ask multiple times though, and I wish he had been understanding last night, but what if he really didn't understand, he thinks it's just ticking, and doesn't understand that what was difficult or triggering for me was having to keep saying no and being ignored or worse mimicked and have something continue to my body. What if he genuinely thinks 'oh I can't even joke or have fun with her' which makes me so sad to think too, and then I kept explaining and looking for understanding, and it was too much for him, he got annoyed and then I slapped him, then started shouting 'it's my body!', he must think I'm crazy. I feel so awful and I didn't want to ruin it and break up, but it feels so irreversible now. I think he is completely over with me.
Reply 8
Original post by NonIndigenous
Why do you keep ending up in relationships with dyckheads like this?

Most men do not behave this way.

Why are you blaming me for their actions? I went out with people because they were nice, they ran charity and community projects, we had mutual friends, they were nice to everyone we met, they established my trust. One partner became physically violent after we had been together some time. Another man I was seeing who I trusted had won a Turner Prize award for community projects (Louis Schultz of Assemble), and I thought he was intelligent and kind, and good with others and kids he hosted workshops for, and it wasn't until we had sex that he was violent and forcibly held me down against my will, and when I said I was not a submissive, hit me across the head. The man who raped me had been my friend for 3 years, I gave no sign I liked him in that way, we were just friends. His friends offered me their sofa the last night I was in New Zealand and he was due to take me to the airport. He got on top of me and started kissing me, I said 'wait, stop" and he laughed then entered me and raped me.

I trusted all of these men, THEY should not have hurt me or raped me, and it is not my fault. 90% of abuse and sexual assault is carried out by people that survivors knew and trusted. The question is why do so many men, who act like they know better and are better people, behave this way in private, or once they have deliberately tried to earn our trust and make us feel safe? And if this happens to 1 in 3 women, this is being done by a lot more men than you think. These people were friends, my partners, and we had many mutual friends who likewise thought they were good people; many men do behave this way, and some of them are in fact our friends.
Original post by Anonymous
Why are you blaming me for their actions? I went out with people because they were nice, they ran charity and community projects, we had mutual friends, they were nice to everyone we met, they established my trust. One partner became physically violent after we had been together some time. Another man I was seeing who I trusted had won a Turner Prize award for community projects (Louis Schultz of Assemble), and I thought he was intelligent and kind, and good with others and kids he hosted workshops for, and it wasn't until we had sex that he was violent and forcibly held me down against my will, and when I said I was not a submissive, hit me across the head. The man who raped me had been my friend for 3 years, I gave no sign I liked him in that way, we were just friends. His friends offered me their sofa the last night I was in New Zealand and he was due to take me to the airport. He got on top of me and started kissing me, I said 'wait, stop" and he laughed then entered me and raped me.

I trusted all of these men, THEY should not have hurt me or raped me, and it is not my fault. 90% of abuse and sexual assault is carried out by people that survivors knew and trusted. The question is why do so many men, who act like they know better and are better people, behave this way in private, or once they have deliberately tried to earn our trust and make us feel safe? And if this happens to 1 in 3 women, this is being done by a lot more men than you think. These people were friends, my partners, and we had many mutual friends who likewise thought they were good people; many men do behave this way, and some of them are in fact our friends.

I'm not trying to blame you. But if there is anything more you can do to prevent these kinds of experiences, it is something worth thinking about.

I don't believe that most men are like this at all. I believe it's a minority, somewhere maybe in the region of 5-25% depending a lot on what kinds of people you surround yourself with. Fundamentally, they act this way because it gives them an ego boost via some sense of control they have of another person. This desire to boost their ego and acquire a sense of control is likely a result of serious inner insecurities, and it can manifest in various ways. Sexual self-gratification at the expense of other people, is one of those ways. But there are other ways, and you can learn to look out for these hints prior to trusting someone intimately.

They often are superficial people. They will behave one way in one context, and in a contrasting way in a different context. I am not talking about when people withhold certain information depending on who they're dealing with. Most do that: you do not talk the same way to your friends as to your boss at work, obviously. I am talking about the kinds of people that generate false impressions that contradict one another, depending on who they are dealing with. This is not normal, or good. It's actually very bad. Yet, I have known people who do think this is normal, because they were raised by parents like this and surrounded by people like this. Someone who was raised like that, will not see the issue with it the same way I for example do, and will therefore neglect to eliminate these kinds of people from their life. It's like describing colour to the colourblind. It's difficult.

These kinds are very appearance-oriented. They can partake in the charitable work that you mentioned, only provided it strengthens their false reputation as a 'good person'. When nobody is looking, they do not care (analogous to my earlier description of their 'contrasting behaviors'). Reputation, reputation, reputation. Always grooming their self-image and even adapting it depending on who their audience is.

If you're attracted to guys of a certain 'social status' and a certain self-image of that sorts (which I am not necessarily criticising, as I have some 'standards' too), or attracted to people (not just guys) like that in general, then you're more likely to end up dealing with their toxic behaviors behind the scenes when nobody is looking and they are less self-conscious of their deprived true nature to hide it then. Unless you need to improve at spotting fakes.

That is what I was getting at with my earlier question. Lots of women pay far too much attention to men's status and image, when both are easily faked. Those men who aren't faking it, likely aren't craving and pursuing the same amount of 'reputation' (or attention) as those that are faking it. Those who aren't faking it, just appear more normal & average, even if they're not necessarily.
(edited 2 years ago)
Original post by NonIndigenous
I'm not trying to blame you. But if there is anything more you can do to prevent these kinds of experiences, it is something worth thinking about.

I don't believe that most men are like this at all. I believe it's a minority, somewhere maybe in the region of 5-25% depending a lot on what kinds of people you surround yourself with. Fundamentally, they act this way because it gives them an ego boost via some sense of control they have of another person. This desire to boost their ego and acquire a sense of control is likely a result of serious inner insecurities, and it can manifest in various ways. Sexual self-gratification at the expense of other people, is one of those ways. But there are other ways, and you can learn to look out for these hints prior to trusting someone intimately.

They often are superficial people. They will behave one way in one context, and in a contrasting way in a different context. I am not talking about when people withhold certain information depending on who they're dealing with. Most do that: you do not talk the same way to your friends as to your boss at work, obviously. I am talking about the kinds of people that generate false impressions that contradict one another, depending on who the are dealing with. This is not normal, or good. Yet, I have known people who do think this is normal, because they were raised by parents like this and surrounded by people like this. Someone who was raised like that, will not see the issue with it the same way I for example do. It's like describing colour to the colourblind. It's difficult.

These kinds are very appearance-oriented. They can partake in the charitable work that you mentioned, only provided it strengthens their false reputation as a 'good person'. When nobody is looking, they do not care (analogous to my earlier description of their 'contrasting behaviors'). Reputation, reputation, reputation. Always grooming their self-image and even adapting it depending on who their audience is.

If you're attracted to guys of a certain 'social status' and a certain self-image of that sorts, or attracted to people (not just guys) like that in general, then you're more likely to end up dealing with their toxic behaviors behind the scenes when nobody is looking and they are less self-conscious of their deprived true nature to hide it then.

That is what I was getting at with my earlier question. Lots of women pay far too much attention to men's status and image, when both are easily faked. Those men who aren't faking it, likely aren't craving and pursuing the same amount of 'reputation' (or attention) as those that are faking it. Those who aren't faking it, just appear more normal & average.

I don't think this is an appropriate discussion to have right now.
Original post by Vapordave
I don't think this is an appropriate discussion to have right now.

We're allowed different opinions. I wouldn't post something if I didn't think it contributed something useful, or at least another perspective to think about. My perspective could be wrong, but it's worth exploring at least.
(edited 2 years ago)
"Once he just said "it is ok" and continued to try to penetrate me anally when I said no, and when I was visibly upset he said "I love you" and carried on."

Bloody christ @OP get yourself someone else and move on... lord help you if you decide to stay with this devil :_:
Original post by NonIndigenous
We're allowed different opinions. I wouldn't post something if I didn't think it contributed something useful, or at least another perspective to think about. My perspective could be wrong, but it's worth exploring at least.

Your point could be valid but the way you opened especially was not helpful IMO.
(edited 2 years ago)
Original post by Anonymous
I love him and just wanted everything to be ok, he gets annoyed and impatient if I ever try to talk about consent or seek reassurance if something doesn't feel right, and I just feel like I've ruined it once and for all last night, it was horrible. I don't know what to think but I think it was my fault for slapping him and shouting back.

He just sounds like a pure narcissist. Can you describe what is it about him that you 'love'?

What good things has he done, that were genuine and selflessly motivated? Towards you, or anyone else? How consistently does he do those things? And what are the reasons for that variation in his behavior?

If I were to guess, I would say that he will likely message or call you at some point. I don't think this is over at all, even though it really should be.
(edited 2 years ago)
It might be hard to think like this right now but it's good riddance to him, you don't need someone like that in your life, I think you'll just end up more hurt if you try to go back to him. You didn't do anything wrong, and I hope things get better for you
(edited 2 years ago)
You shouldn't love him. NO MATTER WHAT HE SAYS OR DOES. He broke your trust, used your past against you. He's a bad person, i get that u might have feelings for him, but its ridiculously unhealthy. imagine how your friends and family would react. look at it from an outside perspective. Sorry about the harshness. And im truely sorry this happened to you.
Original post by NonIndigenous
I'm not trying to blame you. But if there is anything more you can do to prevent these kinds of experiences, it is something worth thinking about.

I don't believe that most men are like this at all. I believe it's a minority, somewhere maybe in the region of 5-25% depending a lot on what kinds of people you surround yourself with. Fundamentally, they act this way because it gives them an ego boost via some sense of control they have of another person. This desire to boost their ego and acquire a sense of control is likely a result of serious inner insecurities, and it can manifest in various ways. Sexual self-gratification at the expense of other people, is one of those ways. But there are other ways, and you can learn to look out for these hints prior to trusting someone intimately.

They often are superficial people. They will behave one way in one context, and in a contrasting way in a different context. I am not talking about when people withhold certain information depending on who they're dealing with. Most do that: you do not talk the same way to your friends as to your boss at work, obviously. I am talking about the kinds of people that generate false impressions that contradict one another, depending on who they are dealing with. This is not normal, or good. It's actually very bad. Yet, I have known people who do think this is normal, because they were raised by parents like this and surrounded by people like this. Someone who was raised like that, will not see the issue with it the same way I for example do, and will therefore neglect to eliminate these kinds of people from their life. It's like describing colour to the colourblind. It's difficult.

These kinds are very appearance-oriented. They can partake in the charitable work that you mentioned, only provided it strengthens their false reputation as a 'good person'. When nobody is looking, they do not care (analogous to my earlier description of their 'contrasting behaviors'). Reputation, reputation, reputation. Always grooming their self-image and even adapting it depending on who their audience is.

If you're attracted to guys of a certain 'social status' and a certain self-image of that sorts (which I am not necessarily criticising, as I have some 'standards' too), or attracted to people (not just guys) like that in general, then you're more likely to end up dealing with their toxic behaviors behind the scenes when nobody is looking and they are less self-conscious of their deprived true nature to hide it then. Unless you need to improve at spotting fakes.

That is what I was getting at with my earlier question. Lots of women pay far too much attention to men's status and image, when both are easily faked. Those men who aren't faking it, likely aren't craving and pursuing the same amount of 'reputation' (or attention) as those that are faking it. Those who aren't faking it, just appear more normal & average, even if they're not necessarily.

I surround myself with good people, with people who are genuine, kind and empathetic; all of my friends are nice people, and they thought those guys were too. Each of those guys hosts community projects and educational workshops, one founded a charity for kids along with the rest of his design team. It wasn't my fault. People who are abusive convince people they are trustworthy and kind first, to get close to us. They prey on people who have a lot of empathy, because they know that kind of person will try to see things from lots of different perspectives. It's not our fault they hurt us. I don't hang out with anyone who is obviously predatory, or unkind, or has harmful "lad banter" or anything like that; these guys acted kind and caring and responsible, until they hurt me or went against my consent.

I know what you mean though in the last bit; I don't go for people with 'social status', but thought they were nice because they do work which is meant to be caring. People who are genuinely caring, wouldn't make a big deal about it, and in the end it was obvious that those guys cared about being seen to be doing good or impressive things for communities, and wanted recognition. In future I would go for someone who is genuinely modest, but honestly it's going to be so hard to tell who is genuine in future.

Also if one third of all women are having this happen to them, it's not just a small percentage of men doing that to everyone.
I hate how people are saying OP could have done things differently.
Reply 19
At the very least, your boyfriend is extremely insensitive and just doesn't seem up to the task behaving normally. At worst he is a pure sociopath. Hopefully it's not the worst, but I wouldn't be too surprised! Find someone else honestly.

Quick Reply

Latest

Trending

Trending