At what point does the behaviour become unacceptable

Original post by Jammydodger39

I had a student get up and call me an “abhorrent f*ing tw**”

At what point does it just become too hard to handle. Because I love teaching but this place is starting to feel like it’s not right for me.

I'm pretty sure someone calling you an “abhorrent f*ing tw**” is more than unacceptable 🤦*♂️
Jeez that's unbelievable, maybe that place really isn't for you :/

Reply 2

Original post by Jammydodger39

I had a student get up and call me an “abhorrent f*ing tw**”

At what point does it just become too hard to handle. Because I love teaching but this place is starting to feel like it’s not right for me.

How have you followed that up?

Reply 3

OP

Original post by Muttley79

How have you followed that up?

All she gets is a one day removal from school lessons. That’s it. I’m refusing to allow her back though.

Reply 4

Mess.

Tbf, using the word abhorrent shows that she is at least taking her English lessons on board :dontknow:

Reply 5

Original post by Jammydodger39

All she gets is a one day removal from school lessons. That’s it. I’m refusing to allow her back though.

Speak to your union rep - swearing at a teacher is totally unacceptable in any school I know.

Reply 6

Original post by Jammydodger39

All she gets is a one day removal from school lessons. That’s it. I’m refusing to allow her back though.

I'm not going to get into the rights/wrongs of her swearing at you, but if that's the school punishment, what do you want to happen going forwards? Do you want her to be moved to another set- but that just passes the problem on to someone else? If she turns up at lesson e.g. on Friday, what are you going to do? Are your HoD/mentor backing you over this.

She shouldn't have sworn at you. She should be punished. But the school have a behaviour policy, and you can't really just decide to sidestep that without backing.

Where do you see things going from here?

I know it's upsetting when a student swears at you, but I also don't think it's worth backing yourself into a corner over.

Original post by Muttley79

Speak to your union rep - swearing at a teacher is totally unacceptable in any school I know.

It would be the same in my school, and in one of the schools I trained in, it wouldn't have even got that sanction. It is "unacceptable" but what punishment would you expect if it were e.g. the first time a student had done this?

I do also think *sometimes* it depends on context as to what's appropriate for the student, as well.

In most schools, removal will involve doing work and no social time. For some students, a fixed term exclusion isn't appropriate, and even after that, the class teacher would be expected to have them back into lessons, which is what OP seems to object to.

Reply 7

Original post by SarcAndSpark

It would be the same in my school, and in one of the schools I trained in, it wouldn't have even got that sanction. It is "unacceptable" but what punishment would you expect if it were e.g. the first time a student had done this?

I do also think *sometimes* it depends on context as to what's appropriate for the student, as well.

I would be making this student sit in a Year 7 class and/or one of mine - the student chose this behaviour and this choice has consequences. I'd then hope to negotiate a return to the class IF the student learns from it.

Reply 8

Original post by Muttley79

I would be making this student sit in a Year 7 class and/or one of mine - the student chose this behaviour and this choice has consequences. I'd then hope to negotiate a return to the class IF the student learns from it.

I think it depends on the circumstances to an extent, surely, though? The only times students have sworn at me have been when other personal situations have boiled over and they've sworn because my action etc is the final straw. It's unacceptable, obviously, but I think also understandable with a teenager.

I think in these cases, a short/sharp shock of a punishment, followed by the student genuinely apologising is enough.

If it's a real clash, and the student is swearing to be agressive, or to intimidate, that's very different- but in that case I don't see the swearing as the issue, it's the agression, and the language is secondary? And that does need a more severe sanction.

I guess maybe it's just the situation with our labs and class sizes, but it wouldn't usually be an option to place a student with another class for more than a few lessons- we do this in an ad hoc basis, if a student needs to be short term removed from lessons, or if a student can't cope with certain types of practical work for whatever reason.

Sometimes a long term class move might be appropriate, but surely long term the student spending all their lessons for x subject with another year group isn't appropriate?

Reply 9

Original post by SarcAndSpark

I think it depends on the circumstances to an extent, surely, though? The only times students have sworn at me have been when other personal situations have boiled over and they've sworn because my action etc is the final straw. It's unacceptable, obviously, but I think also understandable with a teenager.

I think in these cases, a short/sharp shock of a punishment, followed by the student genuinely apologising is enough.

If it's a real clash, and the student is swearing to be agressive, or to intimidate, that's very different- but in that case I don't see the swearing as the issue, it's the agression, and the language is secondary? And that does need a more severe sanction.

I guess maybe it's just the situation with our labs and class sizes, but it wouldn't usually be an option to place a student with another class for more than a few lessons- we do this in an ad hoc basis, if a student needs to be short term removed from lessons, or if a student can't cope with certain types of practical work for whatever reason.

Sometimes a long term class move might be appropriate, but surely long term the student spending all their lessons for x subject with another year group isn't appropriate?

This situation as described - standing up and swearing - is unacceptable. If there is an underlying issue then the student needs support but cannot get away with this behaviour. We'd normally already know about a home issue ...

Sitting doing their work with a younger class [sometimes a Sixth Form group] works - they aren't doing the other classes work.

Of course it depends on the school philosophy/behaviour policy.

Reply 10

Original post by Muttley79

This situation as described - standing up and swearing - is unacceptable. If there is an underlying issue then the student needs support but cannot get away with this behaviour. We'd normally already know about a home issue ...

Sitting doing their work with a younger class [sometimes a Sixth Form group] works - they aren't doing the other classes work.

Of course it depends on the school philosophy/behaviour policy.

I fully understand the situation you're describing- like I say, we do it for individual lessons. I guess maybe it's a subject difference, but apart from the most able students, if I sent them off with a textbook or a powerpoint and said "try to learn this new complex thing on your own" the vast majority of the students I teach wouldn't be able to do it. And obviously they'd learn none of the practical skills inherent to my subject either.

And then, because they can't grasp the work, they'd likely become bored and disruptive in the other lesson.

But like I say, in most classes we just also physically don't have the room to do that and be safe, as well.

But if it works for you, then great BUT if that's not the policy in OP's school then I don't see how they can insist on it, either.

Reply 11

OP

Original post by SarcAndSpark

I fully understand the situation you're describing- like I say, we do it for individual lessons. I guess maybe it's a subject difference, but apart from the most able students, if I sent them off with a textbook or a powerpoint and said "try to learn this new complex thing on your own" the vast majority of the students I teach wouldn't be able to do it. And obviously they'd learn none of the practical skills inherent to my subject either.

And then, because they can't grasp the work, they'd likely become bored and disruptive in the other lesson.

But like I say, in most classes we just also physically don't have the room to do that and be safe, as well.

But if it works for you, then great BUT if that's not the policy in OP's school then I don't see how they can insist on it, either.

Basically. I went through the policy. Exactly how I needed to. The comments made didn’t stop there but I was sort of too upset to keep going. It went on to “you’re not clever enough to be here” then aggressively saying “watch yourself when you’re talking to me” from the student may I add.

I just don’t see how a detention or out for once will solve it. It’s just awfully rude and unnecessary. Sadly I know nothing will happen.

Reply 12

Original post by Jammydodger39

Basically. I went through the policy. Exactly how I needed to. The comments made didn’t stop there but I was sort of too upset to keep going. It went on to “you’re not clever enough to be here” then aggressively saying “watch yourself when you’re talking to me” from the student may I add.

I just don’t see how a detention or out for once will solve it. It’s just awfully rude and unnecessary. Sadly I know nothing will happen.

This might sound a bit weird but I find the "watch yourself when you're talking to me" more concerning than the swearing. Sometimes students will swear, it's not acceptable, but it happens, usually in a flash of anger.

Whereas the "watch yourself when you're talking to me" can either be read as a threat, or a student who sees themselves as superior to or at least equal to a teacher, and that's I think a lot more difficult to handle.

It feels like there must be some backstory here (I don't mean with you) because I don't think students behave like that as a one off. I'd be interested to find out who taught her last year, and if there have been similar events previously?

Is she typical of students at the school, or is this pretty much a one off?

Have you discussed the situation with your HoD/mentor?

Reply 13

hotpud

18

Original post by Jammydodger39

I had a student get up and call me an “abhorrent f*ing tw**”

At what point does it just become too hard to handle. Because I love teaching but this place is starting to feel like it’s not right for me.

The point at which that was said is the point at which that student should be removed from your classroom at the very least. For a bit of perspective I was called a C You Next Tuesday by a student. They were excluded for a day.

(edited 2 years ago)

Original post by Jammydodger39

I had a student get up and call me an “abhorrent f*ing tw**”

At what point does it just become too hard to handle. Because I love teaching but this place is starting to feel like it’s not right for me.

In my school, and in many schools, that student would be removed from lessons for a period of time and only readmitted once they have shown sufficient remorse and their parents have attended a meeting with a member of the senior leadership team to discuss their conduct in lessons. If you are not receiving this sort of support, then you should seriously consider moving to a school with a stronger focus on behaviour, discipline and respect.

I didn't read any of the other replies before I posted my reply. I noticed the comment about refusing to teach a student. You have the right to expect action is taken but you do not have the right to pick and choose who you teach.

Reply 16

OP

Original post by Mr M

In my school, and in many schools, that student would be removed from lessons for a period of time and only readmitted once they have shown sufficient remorse and their parents have attended a meeting with a member of the senior leadership team to discuss their conduct in lessons. If you are not receiving this sort of support, then you should seriously consider moving to a school with a stronger focus on behaviour, discipline and respect.

Agreed. None of what you said happened anyway so. We’ve agreed to trial a ta support in the room

Reply 17

Hi

The poster of this thread is clearly upset by the incident, and I really don't think your contribution is needed, especially as I'm fairly sure you're not a teacher...

Reply 18

OP