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I do feel that if men spent half as much time treating women respectfully as equals as they did trying to prove that dating is rigged against them somehow they'd be a lot happier.
To answer your question OP, no, I don't believe so.
To answer your question OP, no, I don't believe so.
Original post by Admit-One
I do feel that if men spent half as much time treating women respectfully as equals as they did trying to prove that dating is rigged against them somehow they'd be a lot happier.
Exactly - it's simple really. Less talk of 'slaying' and treating women as trophies or objects to be 'won' would do some men wonders in the dating arena - particularly if TSR is anything to go by (which thankfully it isn't IRL)
The question isn’t particularly good because what is an “average” person.
The real question you are trying to ask is if a top sub-section of males get the majority of the female attention, then the answer is yes and if you want the reason the answer is because biology, in which the only requirement for men in a long term mate is biological fitness but in women it is biological fitness + resources to support her and her child. This leads to a clear imbalance as most women wont date down socioeconomically(or in terms of perceived status) but will date up or equally, but most men don’t give a hoot about the financial capability of a woman as long as she’s not in debt.
The real question you are trying to ask is if a top sub-section of males get the majority of the female attention, then the answer is yes and if you want the reason the answer is because biology, in which the only requirement for men in a long term mate is biological fitness but in women it is biological fitness + resources to support her and her child. This leads to a clear imbalance as most women wont date down socioeconomically(or in terms of perceived status) but will date up or equally, but most men don’t give a hoot about the financial capability of a woman as long as she’s not in debt.
Original post by Reality Check
Exactly - it's simple really. Less talk of 'slaying' and treating women as trophies or objects to be 'won' would do some men wonders in the dating arena - particularly if TSR is anything to go by (which thankfully it isn't IRL)
No one is saying they are trophies but there are plenty of men who get nothing but rejections despite asking a large number of women. That’s not comparable to the average woman who will get a date if they ask the same number of men.
Original post by Admit-One
I do feel that if men spent half as much time treating women respectfully as equals as they did trying to prove that dating is rigged against them somehow they'd be a lot happier.
To answer your question OP, no, I don't believe so.
To answer your question OP, no, I don't believe so.
Nothing is rigged. But there are statistics which show that most men don’t get as many matches as most women in online dating for example.
Original post by Anonymous
No one is saying they are trophies ...
Yes they are: I am saying that!
Original post by Anonymous
That’s not comparable to the average woman who will get a date if they ask the same number of men.
Agaian, you saying that dating isn’t “rigged” but throw this out there as if it is plain fact. What evidence of this is there?
Historically speaking, men have been more likely to value a trophy partner, which would make things considerably harder for an “average” woman, no?
Original post by Reality Check
Yes they are: I am saying that!
Ok. Well I’m not.
Doubt it. I'm endlessly seeing couples where the woman is more attractive than the guy. Maybe you didn't just mean average as in physically but it's something that catches my attention. I think a lot of girls also believe most of their worth is in their appearance.
Original post by Admit-One
Agaian, you saying that dating isn’t “rigged” but throw this out there as if it is plain fact. What evidence of this is there?
Historically speaking, men have been more likely to value a trophy partner, which would make things considerably harder for an “average” woman, no?
Historically speaking, men have been more likely to value a trophy partner, which would make things considerably harder for an “average” woman, no?
Here is the evidence. There are plenty of similar articles and data. bit.ly/3uw1eqs
If the “average” woman goes for above average guys, it will of course be harder because the above average guys will naturally go for someone within their league. These statistics I posted show that on tinder, most women have a preference for above average guys.
Original post by Anonymous
Here is the evidence. There are plenty of similar articles and data. bit.ly/3uw1eqs
If the “average” woman goes for above average guys, it will of course be harder because the above average guys will naturally go for someone within their league. These statistics I posted show that on tinder, most women have a preference for above average guys.
If the “average” woman goes for above average guys, it will of course be harder because the above average guys will naturally go for someone within their league. These statistics I posted show that on tinder, most women have a preference for above average guys.
Initial thoughts about your link:
•
It's 6 years old
•
The investigator notes that he "wasn’t getting any hot Tinder dates I had plenty of time to do the math", so he is bias from the outset. (His pen name is "Worst-Online-Dater"!).
•
We don't really know who he is or what his credentials are.
•
He acknowledges the small sample size (27 women interviewed) and that the 'like' figure are self reported (although they match well with other studies)
One thing I don't think he is accounting for why women might 'like' much fewer men on dating apps than men do women, (it's touched on very briefly). Dating apps are a much safer space for men, in the sense that women don't tend to become angry or abusive if things don't go well, (just broadly speaking, let's not go down the "not all men" route today thank you). So there is a degree of self protection going on there.
Now, the upshot of that is that within the dating app ecosphere, yes, average men might be less 'visible', depending on how matches are made or presented. BUT out in the real world, as others have noted, women are generally more amenable to dating someone is slightly below their relative attractiveness, because they're a bit less superficial and value a lot of different qualities, (again a generalisation, but then again this whole thread is really).
So again, fundamentally, I think both men and women will tend to date people who are a similar match in terms of their socio-economic group and relative attractiveness and I've not seen anything compelling to make me think otherwise.
Disclaimer: I'm an average looking dude with slightly below average pics and I had a very acceptable level of success with a year or so of online dating.
No, I don't so- outside of specific hookup apps and fetish sites.
It depends on the type of relationship that they are seeking, type of website/app/dating introductions agency or other physical venue and the membership demand-supply breakdown.
Average males & females are almost certainly going to be facing the same problems as everyone else when seeking long term relationships and trying to identify the most compatible potential partners that share their ambitions & compatible lifestyle preferences.
It depends on the type of relationship that they are seeking, type of website/app/dating introductions agency or other physical venue and the membership demand-supply breakdown.
Average males & females are almost certainly going to be facing the same problems as everyone else when seeking long term relationships and trying to identify the most compatible potential partners that share their ambitions & compatible lifestyle preferences.
Original post by londonmyst
No, I don't so- outside of specific hookup apps and fetish sites.
It depends on the type of relationship that they are seeking, type of website/app/dating introductions agency or other physical venue and the membership demand-supply breakdown.
Average males & females are almost certainly going to be facing the same problems as everyone else when seeking long term relationships and trying to identify the most compatible potential partners that share their ambitions & compatible lifestyle preferences.
It depends on the type of relationship that they are seeking, type of website/app/dating introductions agency or other physical venue and the membership demand-supply breakdown.
Average males & females are almost certainly going to be facing the same problems as everyone else when seeking long term relationships and trying to identify the most compatible potential partners that share their ambitions & compatible lifestyle preferences.
Logic would dictate that if average men and average women picked each other, there wouldn’t be any issues. So why doesn’t this happen?
Original post by Admit-One
Initial thoughts about your link:
One thing I don't think he is accounting for why women might 'like' much fewer men on dating apps than men do women, (it's touched on very briefly). Dating apps are a much safer space for men, in the sense that women don't tend to become angry or abusive if things don't go well, (just broadly speaking, let's not go down the "not all men" route today thank you). So there is a degree of self protection going on there.
Now, the upshot of that is that within the dating app ecosphere, yes, average men might be less 'visible', depending on how matches are made or presented. BUT out in the real world, as others have noted, women are generally more amenable to dating someone is slightly below their relative attractiveness, because they're a bit less superficial and value a lot of different qualities, (again a generalisation, but then again this whole thread is really).
So again, fundamentally, I think both men and women will tend to date people who are a similar match in terms of their socio-economic group and relative attractiveness and I've not seen anything compelling to make me think otherwise.
Disclaimer: I'm an average looking dude with slightly below average pics and I had a very acceptable level of success with a year or so of online dating.
•
It's 6 years old
•
The investigator notes that he "wasn’t getting any hot Tinder dates I had plenty of time to do the math", so he is bias from the outset. (His pen name is "Worst-Online-Dater"!).
•
We don't really know who he is or what his credentials are.
•
He acknowledges the small sample size (27 women interviewed) and that the 'like' figure are self reported (although they match well with other studies)
One thing I don't think he is accounting for why women might 'like' much fewer men on dating apps than men do women, (it's touched on very briefly). Dating apps are a much safer space for men, in the sense that women don't tend to become angry or abusive if things don't go well, (just broadly speaking, let's not go down the "not all men" route today thank you). So there is a degree of self protection going on there.
Now, the upshot of that is that within the dating app ecosphere, yes, average men might be less 'visible', depending on how matches are made or presented. BUT out in the real world, as others have noted, women are generally more amenable to dating someone is slightly below their relative attractiveness, because they're a bit less superficial and value a lot of different qualities, (again a generalisation, but then again this whole thread is really).
So again, fundamentally, I think both men and women will tend to date people who are a similar match in terms of their socio-economic group and relative attractiveness and I've not seen anything compelling to make me think otherwise.
Disclaimer: I'm an average looking dude with slightly below average pics and I had a very acceptable level of success with a year or so of online dating.
Good analysis. But according to the latest yougov poll, online is how most couples meet in the younger generations. There is also a study which demonstrates that young men in America were having less sex in 2018 vs 2008. It pointed to factors which made them less attractive. wapo.st/3l1kRUx
Original post by Anonymous
Logic would dictate that if average men and average women picked each other, there wouldn’t be any issues. So why doesn’t this happen?
Because different people have very different attraction dealbreakers and relationship preferences.
Many single people are attracted to incompatible people and don't have effective dealbreakers or enough life experience to know that they need to rule them.
In terms of looks I'm average, when it comes to height I'm below average at 5'1.
I have a long list of dealbreakers to weed out obviously incompatible guys and avoid reliving past relationships that failed.
I think both genders struggle equally, on average.
I think 'average guys' have a harder time getting with equally 'average women' however. Because 'average women' are less often interested in 'average guys'. Women often look for a partner that is equal or higher in status (however you choose to measure it), usually not lower. Thus, although 'average men' have a slightly hard time, 'average women' also make it harder on themselves by shooting out of their league and then complaining that the guys they're interested in are players because they don't reciprocate the same interest & attachment those women show them.
This is only made worse with dating apps & social media.
On the flip-side there are guys (I know such guys) who deliberately also look for women who are 'lower' in status than they are. Who earn less. Who have less social clout. They feel insecure otherwise and the relationships turns sh/tty because of it. And I know women who are self-conscious about disclosing their income to a potential partner if they earn more than he does. I also know some guys whose partners earn more than they do, and they're perfectly happy (as far as I know / have been told).
All these things are large generalisations. There many ways in which to chop the problem up into smaller pieces. On another hand for example, I'm tempted to say that guys have it harder because I hardly ever see homeless women compared to homeless men in the streets. I'm sure that has something to do with the relationship between genders. I reckon 1 out of 4 are women at most. Not many. That is despite women still earning less on average. Odd, isn't it?
I think 'average guys' have a harder time getting with equally 'average women' however. Because 'average women' are less often interested in 'average guys'. Women often look for a partner that is equal or higher in status (however you choose to measure it), usually not lower. Thus, although 'average men' have a slightly hard time, 'average women' also make it harder on themselves by shooting out of their league and then complaining that the guys they're interested in are players because they don't reciprocate the same interest & attachment those women show them.
This is only made worse with dating apps & social media.
On the flip-side there are guys (I know such guys) who deliberately also look for women who are 'lower' in status than they are. Who earn less. Who have less social clout. They feel insecure otherwise and the relationships turns sh/tty because of it. And I know women who are self-conscious about disclosing their income to a potential partner if they earn more than he does. I also know some guys whose partners earn more than they do, and they're perfectly happy (as far as I know / have been told).
All these things are large generalisations. There many ways in which to chop the problem up into smaller pieces. On another hand for example, I'm tempted to say that guys have it harder because I hardly ever see homeless women compared to homeless men in the streets. I'm sure that has something to do with the relationship between genders. I reckon 1 out of 4 are women at most. Not many. That is despite women still earning less on average. Odd, isn't it?
(edited 2 years ago)
Original post by londonmyst
Because different people have very different attraction dealbreakers and relationship preferences.
Many single people are attracted to incompatible people and don't have effective dealbreakers or enough life experience to know that they need to rule them.
In terms of looks I'm average, when it comes to height I'm below average at 5'1.
I have a long list of dealbreakers to weed out obviously incompatible guys and avoid reliving past relationships that failed.
Many single people are attracted to incompatible people and don't have effective dealbreakers or enough life experience to know that they need to rule them.
In terms of looks I'm average, when it comes to height I'm below average at 5'1.
I have a long list of dealbreakers to weed out obviously incompatible guys and avoid reliving past relationships that failed.
Which is fine for individuals if that’s their choice and they’re happy with it. But looking at wider picture, do you think how picky someone can be depends on what qualities they can offer if they want a relationship? Since a relationship is a 2 way thing.
Original post by Anonymous
Which is fine for individuals if that’s their choice and they’re happy with it. But looking at wider picture, do you think how picky someone can be depends on what qualities they can offer if they want a relationship? Since a relationship is a 2 way thing.
It depends upon personal attitudes towards dating.
A lot of single people do seem to appear to over-estimate their own desirability as a date & what they bring to the table in a relationship and have too many unrealistic dealbreakers unlikely to ever be met.
But if basic attraction dealbreakers are not met & an active sex life is involved- the relationship is likely to have a limited shelf life or be an unhappy one.
I am happily single and have a very long list of dating breakers.
I have other priorities and am not looking for a relationship.
Original post by londonmyst
It depends upon personal attitudes towards dating.
A lot of single people do seem to appear to over-estimate their own desirability as a date & what they bring to the table in a relationship and have too many unrealistic dealbreakers unlikely to ever be met.
But if basic attraction dealbreakers are not met & an active sex life is involved- the relationship is likely to have a limited shelf life or be an unhappy one.
I am happily single and have a very long list of dating breakers.
I have other priorities and am not looking for a relationship.
A lot of single people do seem to appear to over-estimate their own desirability as a date & what they bring to the table in a relationship and have too many unrealistic dealbreakers unlikely to ever be met.
But if basic attraction dealbreakers are not met & an active sex life is involved- the relationship is likely to have a limited shelf life or be an unhappy one.
I am happily single and have a very long list of dating breakers.
I have other priorities and am not looking for a relationship.
Well then that’s fine. But like you say, I think some people are unrealistic and then complain without evaluating their own choices.
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