How should Britain react to Omicron?
I think that existing vaccines will not be protective against Omicron. The CEO of Modena said that most of his scientists presume vaccines will not be effective against the Omicron variant, but cautioned that diverting resources to producing an Omicron vaccine would mean that booster vaccines for the existing variants would not be so widespread, allowing the more widespread Delta variant to cause more damage than the less widespread Omicron. I wonder if it is feasible to produce enough booster shots and Omicron vaccines in time to prevent major lockdowns.
But what the Modena CEO said also led me to believe that the Omicron vaccine may not be as protective against existing variants and may in-fact work as a new vaccine, so we will be required to have three vaccine shots for the older variants, and possibly three vaccine shots for the Omicron variant, meaning that we would need to vaccinate the world with six vaccine shots.
Even the EU now agrees that closing borders is a good way to slowdown the Omicron virus. The UK should do put up a hard border on inbound arrivals (similar to Australia) for a few weeks and engage in localised lockdowns, because if Omicron does spread more widely (the UK has currently registered the most cases outside South Africa) then the UK will need to go back into a full lockdown over the winter flu season.
Mod Note: For advice, guidance and up-to-date information on Coronavirus/COVID-19, please check out the NHS, UK Government, and Mind (mental health) web-pages.
But what the Modena CEO said also led me to believe that the Omicron vaccine may not be as protective against existing variants and may in-fact work as a new vaccine, so we will be required to have three vaccine shots for the older variants, and possibly three vaccine shots for the Omicron variant, meaning that we would need to vaccinate the world with six vaccine shots.
Even the EU now agrees that closing borders is a good way to slowdown the Omicron virus. The UK should do put up a hard border on inbound arrivals (similar to Australia) for a few weeks and engage in localised lockdowns, because if Omicron does spread more widely (the UK has currently registered the most cases outside South Africa) then the UK will need to go back into a full lockdown over the winter flu season.
Mod Note: For advice, guidance and up-to-date information on Coronavirus/COVID-19, please check out the NHS, UK Government, and Mind (mental health) web-pages.
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(edited 2 years ago)
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it all depends on what the variant can actually do, whether its more fatal or if it can spread more easily etc etc, if found that it can do that plus if the vaccine isnt very effective on the new variant then a lockdown will be the only possible outcome so that they can get a vaccine ready with minimal deaths plus hospitalisation.
What it should have done is closed the border so no one from South Africa could come here the second it learned of the existence of this new variant, but the gov't would have needed a spine for that, and this sorely lacks backbone.
We just dont know, it appears to be more transmissible but by how much is unknown; and the health impacts are unknown (what really matters is how likely is this to lead to hospitalisation) and if their is a significant danger here is really unknown their are some reports its milder and that we may keep some immune response but ultimately only time will tell.
Having spent 18 months of the last 2 years under substantial social restrictions I dont think society will accept further 'hard lockdowns' , if every year their is a new variant eventually we will have to find a way to live with this.
From what ive read its unlikely the virus will be more dangerous & more transmissible (based on how viruses typically mutate, although if it highy effective at evading vaccine immune responses then you have to compare relative danger to an unvaccinated person), its worth remembering before sars covid-2 2019 that their are 4 different corona viruses that naturally circulate around on a yearly basis, all 4 of them have evolved into low risk highly transmissible respiratory infections people get all the time.
Apparently within 3 weeks virologists should have enough info to start building a good picture on just how dangerous this variant is, only time will tell, and it wont take long (its worth noting this variant has probably already been around for several months and several weeks in northern Europe, so the cat has been out of the bag so to speak for a little while already). Personally I remain hopeful the immune response wall we have built up in the UK via vaccine & natural infection will remain good enough to live with this although I have no real credentials to make the judgement (so its really just optimism).
Having spent 18 months of the last 2 years under substantial social restrictions I dont think society will accept further 'hard lockdowns' , if every year their is a new variant eventually we will have to find a way to live with this.
From what ive read its unlikely the virus will be more dangerous & more transmissible (based on how viruses typically mutate, although if it highy effective at evading vaccine immune responses then you have to compare relative danger to an unvaccinated person), its worth remembering before sars covid-2 2019 that their are 4 different corona viruses that naturally circulate around on a yearly basis, all 4 of them have evolved into low risk highly transmissible respiratory infections people get all the time.
Apparently within 3 weeks virologists should have enough info to start building a good picture on just how dangerous this variant is, only time will tell, and it wont take long (its worth noting this variant has probably already been around for several months and several weeks in northern Europe, so the cat has been out of the bag so to speak for a little while already). Personally I remain hopeful the immune response wall we have built up in the UK via vaccine & natural infection will remain good enough to live with this although I have no real credentials to make the judgement (so its really just optimism).
There shouldn’t be much snogging under the mistletoe this Christmas.......
Cough, cough, HANCOCK.....
Cough, cough, HANCOCK.....
Original post by Johnnava
I think that existing vaccines will not be protective against Omicron. The CEO of Modena said that most of his scientists presume vaccines will not be effective against the Omicron variant, but cautioned that diverting resources to producing an Omicron vaccine would mean that booster vaccines for the existing variants would not be so widespread, allowing the more widespread Delta variant to cause more damage than the less widespread Omicron. I wonder if it is feasible to produce enough booster shots and Omicron vaccines in time to prevent major lockdowns.
But what the Modena CEO said also led me to believe that the Omicron vaccine may not be as protective against existing variants and may in-fact work as a new vaccine, so we will be required to have three vaccine shots for the older variants, and possibly three vaccine shots for the Omicron variant, meaning that we would need to vaccinate the world with six vaccine shots.
Even the EU now agrees that closing borders is a good way to slowdown the Omicron virus. The UK should do put up a hard border on inbound arrivals (similar to Australia) for a few weeks and engage in localised lockdowns, because if Omicron does spread more widely (the UK has currently registered the most cases outside South Africa) then the UK will need to go back into a full lockdown over the winter flu season.
But what the Modena CEO said also led me to believe that the Omicron vaccine may not be as protective against existing variants and may in-fact work as a new vaccine, so we will be required to have three vaccine shots for the older variants, and possibly three vaccine shots for the Omicron variant, meaning that we would need to vaccinate the world with six vaccine shots.
Even the EU now agrees that closing borders is a good way to slowdown the Omicron virus. The UK should do put up a hard border on inbound arrivals (similar to Australia) for a few weeks and engage in localised lockdowns, because if Omicron does spread more widely (the UK has currently registered the most cases outside South Africa) then the UK will need to go back into a full lockdown over the winter flu season.
We totally should lock down the boarders for any country outside of UK territories (So Bermuda and places like that would be ok because we still own them like we own the Falklands.). but anyone that isn't a UK citizen can't come in. We should also do local lockdowns where any Omicron infection is found including work from home and closing schools for ten days or until people no longer test positive in that area whichever is longer.
I think the doctor who discovered Omicron said that the symptoms have been quite mild. Variants are a fact of life with viruses and we definitely shouldn’t make decisions in a panic. The new variant should not be used as a political tool to impose further restrictions, though it’s a little too late for that.
Original post by jonathanemptage
We totally should lock down the boarders for any country outside of UK territories (So Bermuda and places like that would be ok because we still own them like we own the Falklands.). but anyone that isn't a UK citizen can't come in. We should also do local lockdowns where any Omicron infection is found including work from home and closing schools for ten days or until people no longer test positive in that area whichever is longer.
Shutting borders does nothing to stop the spread of a virus like coronavirus in a country as interconnected as the UK. It just slows the inevitable...fine to buy some time to get your **** together, but that's about it.
As for locking down the boarders, I think @oppiwall might have something to say about that.
Usually the evolutionary path of viruses are to become less damaging for their hosts. More infectious (at times) and less lethal is usually the pattern.
The infection fatality rate of the virus is very low and around 0.15% globally. Hence the survival rate is about 99.85%. These numbers haven't changed much since Dr Ioannidis and colleagues published their paper that had also been accepted by the WHO. Their estimations made long before the vaccination programs came into existence.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33716331/
It is worth noting of the last Coronavirus Pandemic that occured in 1889-1890
From Wikipedia
The 1889–1890 pandemic, often referred to as the "Asiatic flu or "Russian flu", killed about 1 million people out of a world population of about 1.5 billion. It was the last great pandemic of the 19th century, and is among the deadliest pandemics in history. The most reported effects of the pandemic took place from October 1889 to December 1890, with recurrences in March to June 1891, November 1891 to June 1892, the northern winter of 1893–1894, and early 1895.
Although contemporaries described the pandemic as influenza and twentieth-century scholars identified several influenza strains as the possible pathogen, more recent research suggests that it was caused by human coronavirus OC43.
Here the number of people died estimated to be around 1 Million and around 300 Million to 900 million infected. Which gives an IFR between 0.1% and 0.3%. Very comparable to the IFR of this coronavirus pandemic.
From the CDC
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/general-information.html#:~:text=Common%20human%20coronaviruses%2C%20including%20types,some%20point%20in%20their%20lives.
"Common human coronaviruses, including types 229E, NL63, OC43, and HKU1, usually cause mild to moderate upper-respiratory tract illnesses, like the common cold. Most people get infected with one or more of these viruses at some point in their lives."
As someone can see the pandemic that was caused by the human coronavirus OC43 in 1889-1890 now causes common colds with mild to very mild symptoms.
It's very very likely that the same will happen with this human coronavirus in the future. In reality most people who are coming into contact the virus are either asymptomatic, about 1/3 of the population, and the vast majority of the rest have mild symptoms.
@TCA2b
@The RAR
@londonmyst
@Megacent
The infection fatality rate of the virus is very low and around 0.15% globally. Hence the survival rate is about 99.85%. These numbers haven't changed much since Dr Ioannidis and colleagues published their paper that had also been accepted by the WHO. Their estimations made long before the vaccination programs came into existence.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33716331/
It is worth noting of the last Coronavirus Pandemic that occured in 1889-1890
From Wikipedia
The 1889–1890 pandemic, often referred to as the "Asiatic flu or "Russian flu", killed about 1 million people out of a world population of about 1.5 billion. It was the last great pandemic of the 19th century, and is among the deadliest pandemics in history. The most reported effects of the pandemic took place from October 1889 to December 1890, with recurrences in March to June 1891, November 1891 to June 1892, the northern winter of 1893–1894, and early 1895.
Although contemporaries described the pandemic as influenza and twentieth-century scholars identified several influenza strains as the possible pathogen, more recent research suggests that it was caused by human coronavirus OC43.
Here the number of people died estimated to be around 1 Million and around 300 Million to 900 million infected. Which gives an IFR between 0.1% and 0.3%. Very comparable to the IFR of this coronavirus pandemic.
From the CDC
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/general-information.html#:~:text=Common%20human%20coronaviruses%2C%20including%20types,some%20point%20in%20their%20lives.
"Common human coronaviruses, including types 229E, NL63, OC43, and HKU1, usually cause mild to moderate upper-respiratory tract illnesses, like the common cold. Most people get infected with one or more of these viruses at some point in their lives."
As someone can see the pandemic that was caused by the human coronavirus OC43 in 1889-1890 now causes common colds with mild to very mild symptoms.
It's very very likely that the same will happen with this human coronavirus in the future. In reality most people who are coming into contact the virus are either asymptomatic, about 1/3 of the population, and the vast majority of the rest have mild symptoms.
@TCA2b
@The RAR
@londonmyst
@Megacent
(edited 2 years ago)
Original post by Reality Check
Shutting borders does nothing to stop the spread of a virus like coronavirus in a country as interconnected as the UK. It just slows the inevitable...fine to buy some time to get your **** together, but that's about it.
As for locking down the boarders, I think @oppiwall might have something to say about that.
As for locking down the boarders, I think @oppiwall might have something to say about that.
Plenty of them that I would be more than happy to shut down,plenty in a North London suburb for starters..it might not slow the virus..but who cares..
easy. by not reacting at all. And get on with life. Its not covid that has destroyed the country, its been the human response all spurred by the media (again)
Original post by anime<3gaming
easy. by not reacting at all. And get on with life. Its not covid that has destroyed the country, its been the human response all spurred by the media (again)
Absolutely!!!
Have a look at my reply #9 and the forgotten pandemic caused by another Coronavirus OC43 that now causes the common colds.
See the similarities and differences.
1889-1890
Coronavirus (OC43 ) Pandemic
Killed 1 Million people and infected between 300 to 900 Millions.
Then the virus became endemic into the population and now causes common colds.
Original post by Lucifer323
Absolutely!!!
Have a look at my reply #9 and the forgotten pandemic caused by another Coronavirus OC43 that now causes the common colds.
See the similarities and differences.
1889-1890
Coronavirus (OC43 ) Pandemic
Killed 1 Million people and infected between 300 to 900 Millions.
Then the virus became endemic into the population and now causes common colds.
Have a look at my reply #9 and the forgotten pandemic caused by another Coronavirus OC43 that now causes the common colds.
See the similarities and differences.
1889-1890
Coronavirus (OC43 ) Pandemic
Killed 1 Million people and infected between 300 to 900 Millions.
Then the virus became endemic into the population and now causes common colds.
I'm fed up and im sick of having to explain stuff on a 2 year old issue. But I believe there was cause for concern, but this was media hype. The media caused the panic buy, caused a new divide, cause people to be scared of other people and also caused a panic buy for petrol. The mainstream media is just evil to the core. Its always bad news, its always doomsday stories.
And this new variant is just nature playing its game. Even if you vaccinated every living person on this planet it will still circle around the globe and our bodies will get more and more used to it. Eventually mutate and it may or may not make people sick but thats just life.
What I am afraid of is chemical warfare. Its so easy to destroy a country with a simple virus. If China releases another it could cause so much havoc. Big pharma companies might actually develop a virus along with the vaccine in order to make more money. You just never know
Original post by Johnnava
I think that existing vaccines will not be protective against Omicron. The CEO of Modena said that most of his scientists presume vaccines will not be effective against the Omicron variant, but cautioned that diverting resources to producing an Omicron vaccine would mean that booster vaccines for the existing variants would not be so widespread, allowing the more widespread Delta variant to cause more damage than the less widespread Omicron. I wonder if it is feasible to produce enough booster shots and Omicron vaccines in time to prevent major lockdowns.
But what the Modena CEO said also led me to believe that the Omicron vaccine may not be as protective against existing variants and may in-fact work as a new vaccine, so we will be required to have three vaccine shots for the older variants, and possibly three vaccine shots for the Omicron variant, meaning that we would need to vaccinate the world with six vaccine shots.
Even the EU now agrees that closing borders is a good way to slowdown the Omicron virus. The UK should do put up a hard border on inbound arrivals (similar to Australia) for a few weeks and engage in localised lockdowns, because if Omicron does spread more widely (the UK has currently registered the most cases outside South Africa) then the UK will need to go back into a full lockdown over the winter flu season.
But what the Modena CEO said also led me to believe that the Omicron vaccine may not be as protective against existing variants and may in-fact work as a new vaccine, so we will be required to have three vaccine shots for the older variants, and possibly three vaccine shots for the Omicron variant, meaning that we would need to vaccinate the world with six vaccine shots.
Even the EU now agrees that closing borders is a good way to slowdown the Omicron virus. The UK should do put up a hard border on inbound arrivals (similar to Australia) for a few weeks and engage in localised lockdowns, because if Omicron does spread more widely (the UK has currently registered the most cases outside South Africa) then the UK will need to go back into a full lockdown over the winter flu season.
There is no data atm on how the variant reacts or behaves. I agree tho that Boris should enforce stricter policies for Arrivals
@CoolCavy - can this be moved into D&CA, where it belongs?
Thanks
Thanks
Original post by Zain_Ahmed
There is no data atm on how the variant reacts or behaves. I agree tho that Boris should enforce stricter policies for Arrivals
stricter policies will turn to more expenses. The travel industry is an absolute mess and I really want to go to Japan too. And Thailand Puket. But not with all these restrictions. Like the PCR tests AND being forced to pay for a hotel is going to add another £3000 on your holiday.
Original post by anime<3gaming
I'm fed up and im sick of having to explain stuff on a 2 year old issue. But I believe there was cause for concern, but this was media hype. The media caused the panic buy, caused a new divide, cause people to be scared of other people and also caused a panic buy for petrol. The mainstream media is just evil to the core. Its always bad news, its always doomsday stories.
And this new variant is just nature playing its game. Even if you vaccinated every living person on this planet it will still circle around the globe and our bodies will get more and more used to it. Eventually mutate and it may or may not make people sick but thats just life.
What I am afraid of is chemical warfare. Its so easy to destroy a country with a simple virus. If China releases another it could cause so much havoc. Big pharma companies might actually develop a virus along with the vaccine in order to make more money. You just never know
And this new variant is just nature playing its game. Even if you vaccinated every living person on this planet it will still circle around the globe and our bodies will get more and more used to it. Eventually mutate and it may or may not make people sick but thats just life.
What I am afraid of is chemical warfare. Its so easy to destroy a country with a simple virus. If China releases another it could cause so much havoc. Big pharma companies might actually develop a virus along with the vaccine in order to make more money. You just never know
"What I am afraid of is chemical warfare. Its so easy to destroy a country with a simple virus. If China releases another it could cause so much havoc. Big pharma companies might actually develop a virus along with the vaccine in order to make more money. You just never know"
Do you think Sars-Cov-2 is a biological weapon?
Original post by Lucifer323
"What I am afraid of is chemical warfare. Its so easy to destroy a country with a simple virus. If China releases another it could cause so much havoc. Big pharma companies might actually develop a virus along with the vaccine in order to make more money. You just never know"
Do you think Sars-Cov-2 is a biological weapon?
Do you think Sars-Cov-2 is a biological weapon?
no. Id say it was an experiment gone wrong but now its been hijacked by opportunists that want to try their hand at more power and control. If youve got some leeway they will take it, give them an inch they take a mile. But in order to keep this going you need something to replace covid19, maybe covid22 but more dangerous to the human body. Certain people have made big money out of this. Those that make masks and the pharma firms that make the vaccine. Its all money
Original post by jonathanemptage
We totally should lock down the boarders for any country outside of UK territories (So Bermuda and places like that would be ok because we still own them like we own the Falklands.). but anyone that isn't a UK citizen can't come in. We should also do local lockdowns where any Omicron infection is found including work from home and closing schools for ten days or until people no longer test positive in that area whichever is longer.
Original post by Reality Check
Sorted
Definitely not like this.
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