Official Thread: Graduate Entry Medicine 2023 Entry

Hey guys,

Was wondering how competitive this really is? On paper everyone says GEM is insanely competitive, but the BMAT scores of offer holders don’t seem to be miles higher than those of usual undergraduates. Are the interviews similar to undergrad medicine interviews? Is a First good enough, or will most successful applicants have PhDs or Masters?

Any advice is hugely appreciated!

Reply 144

Hey Guys,

How hard is it really to get into GEM at Cambridge? What sorts of experience did you guys have to get shortlisted, and how hard were the MMIs? Were they similar to usual MMIs or did they have sciences questions like normal undergrad Cambridge medicine ones?

Thanks very much for any guidance!

(edited 2 years ago)

Reply 145

username3780878

14

Original post by Snowystar

I'm a third year physics student and on a master's course, so me entry year will be 2023. It's been a really difficult process for me in deciding and I am still wavering. I've started research into med schools, but dates for open days aren't up yet. I'm not sure where to ask for work experience. Love to hear more of what made you guys want to apply for grad med.

hey also a physics student but im applying for 2024- honestly my reasons for wanting to apply to grad med have along the lines of 'i went into the pandemic at 18 having basically chosen physics over medicine on a whim and in the two years since have very much changed both as a person and in my outlook on the world'

Reply 146

Soot_sprite

Original post by Sjxidjd123

Hey guys,

Was wondering how competitive this really is? On paper everyone says GEM is insanely competitive, but the BMAT scores of offer holders don’t seem to be miles higher than those of usual undergraduates. Are the interviews similar to undergrad medicine interviews? Is a First good enough, or will most successful applicants have PhDs or Masters?

Any advice is hugely appreciated!

Hi! From what I’ve heard, GEM BMAT scores may not seem incredibly high because graduates often haven’t covered the the GCSE content recently and have to restudy a lot of the spec, whereas undergrad applicants will have completed their GCSEs more recently and may be studying A-levels with the relevant content. Additionally, there were additional problems with the BMAT this year which could contribute to lower scores? I did quite average in the BMAT but still got an interview and offer.

So far the GEM interviews I’ve done (Newcastle, Oxford, Warwick, I have Kings coming up) were similar in style to my undergrad med interviews, with some additional focus on motivation/ why med instead of what I was studying before, so it’s good to have enough healthcare experience to talk about!

Edited bc I didn’t answer the last question! I think there’s a range! Personally I have a first and applied after graduating with a BSc in the summer (I’m currently doing an MRes). I also have a friend who successfully applied during their third year of a BSc and started straight after undergrad, so you don’t have to already have to have a masters or PhD. I would look carefully at the interview selection criteria for unis you like because it can vary - for example, as part of looking at a candidate, Birmingham scores applicants more highly the more years they have in full time employment after undergrad. On their website this included any job, and postgraduate study/research/training (which is why I didn’t apply there as I’d be slightly disadvantaged). However, other unis don’t seem to have a preference.

Sorry for such a long answer but I hope this helped! Feel free to ask any other questions/ message me if you’d like 😄

(edited 2 years ago)

Reply 147

freemango

9

Original post by Sjxidjd123

Hey guys,

Was wondering how competitive this really is? On paper everyone says GEM is insanely competitive, but the BMAT scores of offer holders don’t seem to be miles higher than those of usual undergraduates. Are the interviews similar to undergrad medicine interviews? Is a First good enough, or will most successful applicants have PhDs or Masters?

Any advice is hugely appreciated!

Only Oxford uses the BMAT for GEM so you can’t generalise as to how hard it is to get in in general unless you’re only considering Oxford. For the majority of GEM courses you are looking at UCAT or GAMSAT admissions tests. And yes, for UCAT unis, it is often much more competitive to get into GEM than undergrad/A100 courses. For example Southampton and Newcastle require much higher UCAT scores (3000+ generally) for their GEM courses than A100 (although as they don’t require science A levels or certain grades, this accounts for the higher score requirement). GEM courses are also often much smaller cohorts than A100, again increasing competition.

Reply 148

qwerty960

1

Hi, I have 3 D*s in BTEC level 3 extended Forensic Science and hopefully will achieve a high 2:1 in a genetics degree by the end of next year. Does anyone know a medical school I could get into with these qualifications? I have been considering studying medicine for a long time but I am worried as most places will not take BTECs. Thanks for your help!

Reply 149

GP1983

4

Original post by Sjxidjd123

Hey Guys,

How hard is it really to get into GEM at Cambridge? What sorts of experience did you guys have to get shortlisted, and how hard were the MMIs? Were they similar to usual MMIs or did they have sciences questions like normal undergrad Cambridge medicine ones?

Thanks very much for any guidance!

All of the following, minus perhaps a few detailed figures, should be accessible via the course websites but I hope will be a useful summary:

It's a numbers game, not just 'quality' you're competing against but 'quantity' too. For 2021 entrance there were approximately 600 applicants for 41 places. So after the applications have been screened for entrants with at least a 2:1 degree plus an A in A-level chemistry that still leaves a very large number. Admissions Tutors then give a score for academic attainment and take about the top half (say ~300 by this stage) for further review. The Colleges look through those remaining applications scoring the personal statements and candidate reflections on any healthcare experience, plus checking references, and call for interview those with the highest aggregate scores from the preceding processes. By this time there are about 90 remaining candidates, so of those invited to interview about 1:2 will achieve an offer.
Inevitably, given the quality of applicants, plenty who'd be capable of the course and make good doctors will miss out. Many will receive other offers and should be very happy with those.
The MMI's are not especially 'hard' but aim to explore thinking skills rather than pure knowledge, plus elements of motivation and insight. Remember that the course is open to those with non-science degrees (who have been very successful on the course over the past 20 years) so the MMI's are not 'science vivas'.
Lastly, though a number of accepted students have PhD's etc there are many straight from 2:1 Bachelor degrees. Also, entry ages range from ~22 to mid- thirties. (there's no upper age limit, but that's been the experience). Applicants to all 4 Colleges are selected via a common pool, so it should matter little which college (if any) is put as a preference, though for those who are made offers these will, where possible, be made by the preferred College. Excellent candidates who have disabilities or have been otherwise disadvantaged are, so long as considered able to complete the course, welcomed and have a history of success.
As far as 'healthcare experience' is concerned, more emphasis is placed on the insight gained from experiences, and the effort put into them, rather than what was done or seen.
Hope that's helpful.

Reply 150

Original post by Soot_sprite

Hi! From what I’ve heard, GEM BMAT scores may not seem incredibly high because graduates often haven’t covered the the GCSE content recently and have to restudy a lot of the spec, whereas undergrad applicants will have completed their GCSEs more recently and may be studying A-levels with the relevant content. Additionally, there were additional problems with the BMAT this year which could contribute to lower scores? I did quite average in the BMAT but still got an interview and offer.

So far the GEM interviews I’ve done (Newcastle, Oxford, Warwick, I have Kings coming up) were similar in style to my undergrad med interviews, with some additional focus on motivation/ why med instead of what I was studying before, so it’s good to have enough healthcare experience to talk about!

Edited bc I didn’t answer the last question! I think there’s a range! Personally I have a first and applied after graduating with a BSc in the summer (I’m currently doing an MRes). I also have a friend who successfully applied during their third year of a BSc and started straight after undergrad, so you don’t have to already have to have a masters or PhD. I would look carefully at the interview selection criteria for unis you like because it can vary - for example, as part of looking at a candidate, Birmingham scores applicants more highly the more years they have in full time employment after undergrad. On their website this included any job, and postgraduate study/research/training (which is why I didn’t apply there as I’d be slightly disadvantaged). However, other unis don’t seem to have a preference.

Sorry for such a long answer but I hope this helped! Feel free to ask any other questions/ message me if you’d like 😄

Wow, thanks! So was the Oxford interview quite scientific like for undergrads, or was it more medicine oriented (like why med, teamworking etc?) They won’t ask uni level science will they? Thank you so much

Reply 151

Original post by GP1983

All of the following, minus perhaps a few detailed figures, should be accessible via the course websites but I hope will be a useful summary:

It's a numbers game, not just 'quality' you're competing against but 'quantity' too. For 2021 entrance there were approximately 600 applicants for 41 places. So after the applications have been screened for entrants with at least a 2:1 degree plus an A in A-level chemistry that still leaves a very large number. Admissions Tutors then give a score for academic attainment and take about the top half (say ~300 by this stage) for further review. The Colleges look through those remaining applications scoring the personal statements and candidate reflections on any healthcare experience, plus checking references, and call for interview those with the highest aggregate scores from the preceding processes. By this time there are about 90 remaining candidates, so of those invited to interview about 1:2 will achieve an offer.
Inevitably, given the quality of applicants, plenty who'd be capable of the course and make good doctors will miss out. Many will receive other offers and should be very happy with those.
The MMI's are not especially 'hard' but aim to explore thinking skills rather than pure knowledge, plus elements of motivation and insight. Remember that the course is open to those with non-science degrees (who have been very successful on the course over the past 20 years) so the MMI's are not 'science vivas'.
Lastly, though a number of accepted students have PhD's etc there are many straight from 2:1 Bachelor degrees. Also, entry ages range from ~22 to mid- thirties. (there's no upper age limit, but that's been the experience). Applicants to all 4 Colleges are selected via a common pool, so it should matter little which college (if any) is put as a preference, though for those who are made offers these will, where possible, be made by the preferred College. Excellent candidates who have disabilities or have been otherwise disadvantaged are, so long as considered able to complete the course, welcomed and have a history of success.
As far as 'healthcare experience' is concerned, more emphasis is placed on the insight gained from experiences, and the effort put into them, rather than what was done or seen.
Hope that's helpful.

Sounds great, thank you!

Reply 152

Soot_sprite

Original post by Sjxidjd123

Wow, thanks! So was the Oxford interview quite scientific like for undergrads, or was it more medicine oriented (like why med, teamworking etc?) They won’t ask uni level science will they? Thank you so much

No problem! This is just my personal experience, others may differ! For me I had a mixture - there was one science focused and one med focused for each college I interviewed at. I can’t say what questions we were given but my MMI prep for other med schools was useful for the med one, and I felt the science one was quite hard but not impossible. Some parts of the interview covered topics outside of what I’d learnt but you work through the problems with the interviewers so it isn’t as daunting! I think uni level knowledge is not expected bc people come from different courses, and it’s more your thinking process that’s assessed? At least that’s what someone told me! Overall I found it surprisingly fun but I did think I’d done badly - it’s hard to judge your own performance I guess!

There are some publicly available example med interview qs and a video interview all available online from Oxford, if you haven’t seen them already!

Reply 153

hi,
I am current veterinary student seriously considering applying to gem after finishing third year intercalated degree.
(won't put my motivation here, but I am taking it seriously and for many reasons feel I am more of a fit for human medicine)

My question is would you think that unfinished veterinary degree would be an advantage or disadvantage in this case? I am torn between putting strong emphasis on the fact I have studied vet (clinical placements are good work experience, comparative anatomy, dissections and the whole lot of transferable skills like patient communication, taking history etc.). On the other hand they might treat unfinished degree and "changing mind" as disadvantage, so I would put emphasis on science degree earned and just briefly mentioned it was part of veterinary course.

Another thing is first class degree on a vet course might be harder to get than some (some!) other first class degrees, so might be another factor?? Don't think that matters much tho

Reply 154

medicphd

13

Original post by nata3211

hi,
I am current veterinary student seriously considering applying to gem after finishing third year intercalated degree.
(won't put my motivation here, but I am taking it seriously and for many reasons feel I am more of a fit for human medicine)

My question is would you think that unfinished veterinary degree would be an advantage or disadvantage in this case? I am torn between putting strong emphasis on the fact I have studied vet (clinical placements are good work experience, comparative anatomy, dissections and the whole lot of transferable skills like patient communication, taking history etc.). On the other hand they might treat unfinished degree and "changing mind" as disadvantage, so I would put emphasis on science degree earned and just briefly mentioned it was part of veterinary course.

Another thing is first class degree on a vet course might be harder to get than some (some!) other first class degrees, so might be another factor?? Don't think that matters much tho

Is your intercalated degree 1 year like med intercalated degrees are? If it is I would just check that it's accepted as a full undergraduate science degree by the unis you want to apply to. I know it technically is but it can't hurt to check.

It depends on the uni but a lot of GEM courses don't look at your personal statement, or they look at it after you've been invited to interview so it might not be a big deal. Either way I don't think it matters. If you don't have a lot of work experience elsewhere you could talk about the comparisons, but if you have (human) patient-facing experience I'd talk that up more.

Reply 155

username5825061

11

Original post by nata3211

hi,
I am current veterinary student seriously considering applying to gem after finishing third year intercalated degree.
(won't put my motivation here, but I am taking it seriously and for many reasons feel I am more of a fit for human medicine)

My question is would you think that unfinished veterinary degree would be an advantage or disadvantage in this case? I am torn between putting strong emphasis on the fact I have studied vet (clinical placements are good work experience, comparative anatomy, dissections and the whole lot of transferable skills like patient communication, taking history etc.). On the other hand they might treat unfinished degree and "changing mind" as disadvantage, so I would put emphasis on science degree earned and just briefly mentioned it was part of veterinary course.

Another thing is first class degree on a vet course might be harder to get than some (some!) other first class degrees, so might be another factor?? Don't think that matters much tho

GEM courses require a degree classification of either a 1st or 2.1 so I think in order to be considered for the GEM course you would need to complete your current degree.

You could look at the undergraduate medical courses. I don't know if you would get the funding for undergraduate if you haven't completed your veterinary degree because technically you wouldn't have a degree when you apply.

Reply 156

Original post by medicphd

Is your intercalated degree 1 year like med intercalated degrees are? If it is I would just check that it's accepted as a full undergraduate science degree by the unis you want to apply to. I know it technically is but it can't hurt to check.

It depends on the uni but a lot of GEM courses don't look at your personal statement, or they look at it after you've been invited to interview so it might not be a big deal. Either way I don't think it matters. If you don't have a lot of work experience elsewhere you could talk about the comparisons, but if you have (human) patient-facing experience I'd talk that up more.

Thanks sooo much!
I know my degree will be accepted, I was just advised for lots of unis interrupted vet course would be a red flag?
also, yes obviously I ought to have human mwdicine work experience, but I thought this would add up to my cv as lots of skills are the same (taking history, patient communication, ethics)?

basically, I can't decide if this is big adventage or big disadvantage hahah
and I'm quite afraid this depends on the course and just have no idea how to choose wisely

Reply 157

Original post by KMaisey

GEM courses require a degree classification of either a 1st or 2.1 so I think in order to be considered for the GEM course you would need to complete your current degree.

You could look at the undergraduate medical courses. I don't know if you would get the funding for undergraduate if you haven't completed your veterinary degree because technically you wouldn't have a degree when you apply.

I will have a degree though, after third year we graduate with BSc and than with Veterinary degree after finishing the course, So we have two degrees then :smile:

Reply 158

username5731518

5

Original post by nata3211

I will have a degree though, after third year we graduate with BSc and than with Veterinary degree after finishing the course, So we have two degrees then :smile:

Some Medical schools do not allow you to join the course until completion of your whole degree so even if the BSc was at a 2:1, you might want to check with the unis you are considering

Reply 159