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New proposals to ban student loans for students who fail maths and English GCSE
Poll
Should students who fail GCSE Maths or English be prevented from getting a student loan?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/02/23/no-student-loan-fail-gcse-maths-english-bid-control-numbers/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-60491719
In an attempt to cracking down on the cost of universities to taxpayers and stopping so called 'low-quality' degrees, today government ministers announced some new proposals about higher education. This is because roughly eight in 10 graduates will never pay back their student loan, causing the debt to be written off after 30 years.
One of these ideas is to ban students who fail their maths and English GCSE's (getting lower than a 4) from applying for a student loan, or setting other minimum entry requirements. According to this article, around a third of students fail their maths and English GCSE each year.
They are also looking at reintroducing student number controls, which were in place before the cost of student loans rose to £9k a year, to stop universities being able to take as many students as they want. This could mean universities are fined for taking more than their allotted amount of students or universities are limited on the number of offers they can make each year, increasing the competitiveness.
What do you think of these new proposals? Remember, they are just proposals at this stage and they haven't been approved yet.
Does this worry you, or do you think this is the right thing to do? What alternatives would you suggest?
Let us know your thoughts below
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-60491719
In an attempt to cracking down on the cost of universities to taxpayers and stopping so called 'low-quality' degrees, today government ministers announced some new proposals about higher education. This is because roughly eight in 10 graduates will never pay back their student loan, causing the debt to be written off after 30 years.
One of these ideas is to ban students who fail their maths and English GCSE's (getting lower than a 4) from applying for a student loan, or setting other minimum entry requirements. According to this article, around a third of students fail their maths and English GCSE each year.
They are also looking at reintroducing student number controls, which were in place before the cost of student loans rose to £9k a year, to stop universities being able to take as many students as they want. This could mean universities are fined for taking more than their allotted amount of students or universities are limited on the number of offers they can make each year, increasing the competitiveness.
What do you think of these new proposals? Remember, they are just proposals at this stage and they haven't been approved yet.
Does this worry you, or do you think this is the right thing to do? What alternatives would you suggest?
Let us know your thoughts below
(edited 2 years ago)
Scroll to see replies
It is also featured in The Daily Mail: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10541233/Pupils-fail-GCSE-maths-English-BANNED-getting-student-loans.html
Maybe er, rethink the fees and loans systems rather than introduce discriminatory and classist policies then. Just a thought
Edit: The Telegraph article is behind a paywall and I'm sure many won't click through to a DM article so here is a snippet from (I think) today's Telegraph for more context:
Edit: The Telegraph article is behind a paywall and I'm sure many won't click through to a DM article so here is a snippet from (I think) today's Telegraph for more context:
Spoiler
(edited 2 years ago)
Saw the same thing said on the bbc. About time too tbh.when I was younger I would have disagreed but now I see how things have panned out for a lot of people I know I do agree with it.
The alternative of apprenticeships shouldn't be underestimated as its a great way to learn and get experience.
I'm not surprised universities disagree with the proposals. They just want money without giving a crap about how good their students actually are.
The alternative of apprenticeships shouldn't be underestimated as its a great way to learn and get experience.
I'm not surprised universities disagree with the proposals. They just want money without giving a crap about how good their students actually are.
Could be wrong, but I thought that you generally had to get a pass (grade 4) in maths and english language to get into university anyway?
Ive got mates who went to universities & courses of varying reputations.
Generally university is a very good experience, but their are some courses which offer very minimal benefit to the graduates (i won’t be naming the course & uni combinations). But their is some which I think are a waste.
I think a lot will be made of this will hit those from the most difficult backgrounds the most, I think pragmatically it would be better to adjust admissions procedures to ensure they are fair for all applicants rather then ship students off to courses with crap graduate prospects and still burden them with the same debt/grad-tax.
The state has a reasonable responsibility to ensure best use of public funds, and im not against reasonable measures. I think a lot will be made about students from X background, well it would be better to have a fair admissions process and sensible use of funding then ship everyone off to uni and say job done look at the stats ABC academy now has lots of uni grads.
Generally university is a very good experience, but their are some courses which offer very minimal benefit to the graduates (i won’t be naming the course & uni combinations). But their is some which I think are a waste.
I think a lot will be made of this will hit those from the most difficult backgrounds the most, I think pragmatically it would be better to adjust admissions procedures to ensure they are fair for all applicants rather then ship students off to courses with crap graduate prospects and still burden them with the same debt/grad-tax.
The state has a reasonable responsibility to ensure best use of public funds, and im not against reasonable measures. I think a lot will be made about students from X background, well it would be better to have a fair admissions process and sensible use of funding then ship everyone off to uni and say job done look at the stats ABC academy now has lots of uni grads.
(edited 2 years ago)
BBC article about the same: No English and maths GCSE, no university student loan, plans say
Need to wonder if this would also apply to people wanting loans for vocational/college qualifications.
Original post by StriderHort
Need to wonder if this would also apply to people wanting loans for vocational/college qualifications.
I hope not & I doubt it, the vocational system combining an apprenticeship with a local vocational college is excellent, I know lots of people who have gone this path & frankly I think its often a better path then a lot of university courses.
I know someone who is studying English at uni and they’re very very good at it but I don’t think they could ever pass gcse maths because it’s just not their thing.. they ended up getting an alternative qualification which the uni accepts but this system would mean they couldn’t get a loan? Even though they are one of the best in their uni at english.. seems a bit unfair really. But then if they’re rich they can still go to uni??
Also would it accept retakes? Or if you fail once is that it? Because that’s very harsh and not really in the ethos of our country and giving people second chances and mature students an opportunity for education etc..
Also would it accept retakes? Or if you fail once is that it? Because that’s very harsh and not really in the ethos of our country and giving people second chances and mature students an opportunity for education etc..
They should ban student loans to people who did pass there maths and english GCSE.
This is because people who work hard during GCSE times should be rewarded. They are the ones who deserve better pay and high end jobs. It wouldn't be fair if someone who didn't pass their core gcse to get into uni because it shows that anyone can get into uni without studying.
Also thinking about this new proposal, it motivates stents to work hard to get what they want. Life isnt easy and it shouldn't be easy.
This is because people who work hard during GCSE times should be rewarded. They are the ones who deserve better pay and high end jobs. It wouldn't be fair if someone who didn't pass their core gcse to get into uni because it shows that anyone can get into uni without studying.
Also thinking about this new proposal, it motivates stents to work hard to get what they want. Life isnt easy and it shouldn't be easy.
Original post by Tz4ey
They should ban student loans to people who did pass there maths and english GCSE.
This is because people who work hard during GCSE times should be rewarded. They are the ones who deserve better pay and high end jobs. It wouldn't be fair if someone who didn't pass their core gcse to get into uni because it shows that anyone can get into uni without studying.
Also thinking about this new proposal, it motivates stents to work hard to get what they want. Life isnt easy and it shouldn't be easy.
This is because people who work hard during GCSE times should be rewarded. They are the ones who deserve better pay and high end jobs. It wouldn't be fair if someone who didn't pass their core gcse to get into uni because it shows that anyone can get into uni without studying.
Also thinking about this new proposal, it motivates stents to work hard to get what they want. Life isnt easy and it shouldn't be easy.
...no loan for you then
I think it's extremely discriminatory, but then again what can you expect from a Tory government?
They want to keep the poor poor, and the rich rich.
Having students from disadvantaged backgrounds going onto further education and *gasp* getting a degree, puts a thorn in their side. These students will then go on to get jobs that, in the minds of the tories, should be reserved for the middle classes.
They don't want "little people" to get an education. They want to keep the working class, working class.
I'm also concerned if this is now going to mean that BTEC students will also be denied student loans if they want to continue onto university,
They want to keep the poor poor, and the rich rich.
Having students from disadvantaged backgrounds going onto further education and *gasp* getting a degree, puts a thorn in their side. These students will then go on to get jobs that, in the minds of the tories, should be reserved for the middle classes.
They don't want "little people" to get an education. They want to keep the working class, working class.
I'm also concerned if this is now going to mean that BTEC students will also be denied student loans if they want to continue onto university,
Original post by Tz4ey
They should ban student loans to people who did pass there maths and english GCSE.
This is because people who work hard during GCSE times should be rewarded. They are the ones who deserve better pay and high end jobs. It wouldn't be fair if someone who didn't pass their core gcse to get into uni because it shows that anyone can get into uni without studying.
Also thinking about this new proposal, it motivates stents to work hard to get what they want. Life isnt easy and it shouldn't be easy.
This is because people who work hard during GCSE times should be rewarded. They are the ones who deserve better pay and high end jobs. It wouldn't be fair if someone who didn't pass their core gcse to get into uni because it shows that anyone can get into uni without studying.
Also thinking about this new proposal, it motivates stents to work hard to get what they want. Life isnt easy and it shouldn't be easy.
But a student with a rich family will be able to circumvent this requirement. If you want to install minimum GCSE requirement across the board then fine, but why should a degree be paywalled off for poorer families?
(edited 2 years ago)
It's nothing short of a class war on working-class and disadvantaged students.
What about those who may already not be getting support for dyslexia, autism etc?
I have a friend who has just left uni with an MA in Religious studies and is going into teaching. He has 10 GCSES's...A* in English but failed Maths. Religious Studies is a humanity subject, you don't need Maths for it. He now needs to do a Maths Equivalency test or he can't teach, yet he is an expert in his subject!
University is not school. There are so many people who perhaps didn't get one or both of English/Maths, have gone into work, then decided to pursue a change of career and need a degree. Only certain professions need Maths GCSE, although most need a good standard of English.
I'm very pleased my country Wales, are a devolved nation and this nonsense will not be put to work here. Opportunity for all, not just a few.
What about those who may already not be getting support for dyslexia, autism etc?
I have a friend who has just left uni with an MA in Religious studies and is going into teaching. He has 10 GCSES's...A* in English but failed Maths. Religious Studies is a humanity subject, you don't need Maths for it. He now needs to do a Maths Equivalency test or he can't teach, yet he is an expert in his subject!
University is not school. There are so many people who perhaps didn't get one or both of English/Maths, have gone into work, then decided to pursue a change of career and need a degree. Only certain professions need Maths GCSE, although most need a good standard of English.
I'm very pleased my country Wales, are a devolved nation and this nonsense will not be put to work here. Opportunity for all, not just a few.
Original post by flaurie
Could be wrong, but I thought that you generally had to get a pass (grade 4) in maths and english language to get into university anyway?
I thought this too. Maybe the proposals mean that they must be achieved before applying as currently you can apply with grades pending.
I thought this was already put in place? It doesn’t make sense, they should’ve done this ages ago.
I don’t understand how people can go to uni with not passing English as they need good essay skills and maths as it’s needed for everyday life like when you go shopping or when there are offers etc
The world doesn’t make sense.
I don’t understand how people can go to uni with not passing English as they need good essay skills and maths as it’s needed for everyday life like when you go shopping or when there are offers etc
The world doesn’t make sense.
Original post by Admit-One
Maybe er, rethink the fees and loans systems rather than introduce discriminatory and classist policies then. Just a thought
I agree. The tuition fee and loan system clearly isn’t working as efficiently as it should be so a complete overhaul is needed.
Cap the number of places and make it free. This ******** tinkering around the edges to what is an extremely **** system is just to grab headlines.
Mandate or at least heavily encourage sandwich degrees (with PAID placements) and ensure students have relevant work experience (or even a job offer) before graduating - especially for engineering/technology. ******** out thousands of CS grads with no experience is not the solution to the supposed recruitment crisis.
Schools/colleges should be encouraging (degree) apprenticeships first, not your bog-standard 3/4-year university path. Change the focus from UCAS/personal statements to preparing pupils for assessment centres and psychometric tests. The nature of recruitment is changing fast from AI assessed video interviews to gamified assessment and there is 0 meaningful support out there for people beyond some token gestures by careers advisors.
If the govt wants to improve the prospects of young people after studying, they need to look at what makes them employable. A piece of paper with a bit of Latin printed on it saying you have a degree does not make you employable. Productive work experience, learning on the job, gaining practical skills and putting into practice what you've learnt is what makes someone employable.
Mandate or at least heavily encourage sandwich degrees (with PAID placements) and ensure students have relevant work experience (or even a job offer) before graduating - especially for engineering/technology. ******** out thousands of CS grads with no experience is not the solution to the supposed recruitment crisis.
Schools/colleges should be encouraging (degree) apprenticeships first, not your bog-standard 3/4-year university path. Change the focus from UCAS/personal statements to preparing pupils for assessment centres and psychometric tests. The nature of recruitment is changing fast from AI assessed video interviews to gamified assessment and there is 0 meaningful support out there for people beyond some token gestures by careers advisors.
If the govt wants to improve the prospects of young people after studying, they need to look at what makes them employable. A piece of paper with a bit of Latin printed on it saying you have a degree does not make you employable. Productive work experience, learning on the job, gaining practical skills and putting into practice what you've learnt is what makes someone employable.
(edited 2 years ago)
It's a great starting point.
But should be extended; to prevent all english and scottish unis from admitting undergrad students under 60 that don't have at least 5 gcse's/igcse's (including maths and one of the english gcse's).
But should be extended; to prevent all english and scottish unis from admitting undergrad students under 60 that don't have at least 5 gcse's/igcse's (including maths and one of the english gcse's).
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