Do you support Irish unification with Northern Ireland? Watch

Poll: Would you support democratic Irish unification with Northern Ireland?
Yes (58)
44.96%
No (52)
40.31%
Dont know (5)
3.88%
Dont care (14)
10.85%
Psyk
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#181
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#181
(Original post by EnthusiasticEnthusiast)
My great grand parents were both Irish, so I fully support the unification of Ireland as I believe the island of Ireland should be united as it once was for 800 years. However considering that I don't live there I can't cast a vote as such, I just wish the best to them whether they're united or not, at the end of the day they're all Irish, seperated by religion.
As I understand it, part of the problem is that many people in Northern Ireland would disagree. Most unionists don't consider themselves to be Irish at all. They think of themselves as British and not Irish.
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EnthusiasticEnthusiast
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#182
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#182
(Original post by Psyk)
As I understand it, part of the problem is that many people in Northern Ireland would disagree. Most unionists don't consider themselves to be Irish at all. They think of themselves as British and not Irish.
In fairness, I suppose that on a piece of paper they can indeed and should be considered British citizens, however living on the island of Ireland they must have a place in their heart for it, even if their protestant or not.
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L i b
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#183
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#183
(Original post by EnthusiasticEnthusiast)
however living on the island of Ireland they must have a place in their heart for it, even if their protestant or not.
Why 'must' they?
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EnthusiasticEnthusiast
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#184
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#184
(Original post by L i b)
Why 'must' they?
Well having been united for a good part of Ireland's existence and sharing arguably the closest lifestyle to any country outside of the UK, they must have a tiny bit of Irish in them, after all they used to be Irish(and still are to some extent).
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technik
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#185
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#185
(Original post by EnthusiasticEnthusiast)
In fairness, I suppose that on a piece of paper they can indeed and should be considered British citizens, however living on the island of Ireland they must have a place in their heart for it, even if their protestant or not.
I have an irish passport but don't feel particularly irish. Only obtained one because the process was simpler and cheaper at the time :P

I was born in N.I and have lived here all my life...The Republic is a foreign land and feels like it too when I've ever visited.
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EnthusiasticEnthusiast
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#186
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#186
(Original post by technik)
I have an irish passport but don't feel particularly irish. Only obtained one because the process was simpler and cheaper at the time :P

I was born in N.I and have lived here all my life...The Republic is a foreign land and feels like it too when I've ever visited.
Well there you go, I have a neighbour who lived in NI all his life, is a protestant and considers himself Irish over British.
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technik
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#187
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#187
(Original post by EnthusiasticEnthusiast)
Well there you go, I have a neighbour who lived in NI all his life, is a protestant and considers himself Irish over British.
I'd consider myself to be equally northern irish and british.
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Psyk
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#188
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#188
(Original post by EnthusiasticEnthusiast)
Well there you go, I have a neighbour who lived in NI all his life, is a protestant and considers himself Irish over British.
It seems strange to me that opinions differ so greatly in NI. A friend of mine says that the culture in NI and ROI are pretty much the same. But if you ask some people, they'll say it's completely different.
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Stettin
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#189
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#189
(Original post by EnthusiasticEnthusiast)
In fairness, I suppose that on a piece of paper they can indeed and should be considered British citizens, however living on the island of Ireland they must have a place in their heart for it, even if their protestant or not.
Actually most Protestants in Ireland and Northern Ireland are descedants of Scottish and English settlers. There has been mixing between the two communities but the distinct idea exists. Just as the Scottish people who are born and raised in the UK see themselves has Scottish and the English born up the border see themselves has English.

At the end of the day THEY shouldn't have to live in a foreign country that they dont' want to be. Let me make this clear. The ones in NI who want to join Ireland are a minority. Those who want to stay in the UK are the majority and those who don't give two ***** since the EU has nullified the borders come second.

Why should they join Ireland? In fact. If that is your argument. Shouldn't parts of Scotland be given to England? Part of it were part of the old Anglo-Saxon communities. Now after hundreds of years of living in Scotland they "must feel" english.
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EnthusiasticEnthusiast
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#190
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#190
(Original post by Stettin)
At the end of the day THEY shouldn't have to live in a foreign country that they dont' want to be. Let me make this clear. The ones in NI who want to join Ireland are a minority. Those who want to stay in the UK are the majority and those who don't give two ***** since the EU has nullified the borders come second.
I agree, let the people decide for themselves. I don't live there and therefore cannot cast a vote but I can give my opinion, my family being Irish nationalists will always be the reason why I'd like to see a united Ireland but at the end of the day, it's not up to me.

Why should they join Ireland? In fact. If that is your argument. Shouldn't parts of Scotland be given to England? Part of it were part of the old Anglo-Saxon communities. Now after hundreds of years of living in Scotland they "must feel" english.
The Scottish-English land thing is irrelevant as no one there cares since both countries are part of the UK. Moreover some lands in England used to belong to Scotland, so it works both ways.
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L i b
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#191
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#191
(Original post by Psyk)
It seems strange to me that opinions differ so greatly in NI. A friend of mine says that the culture in NI and ROI are pretty much the same. But if you ask some people, they'll say it's completely different.
Well, presumably the 'Nationalist community' in Northern Ireland take their cultural cues more from the Republic than Great Britain.

(Original post by EnthusiasticEnthusiast)
I agree, let the people decide for themselves. I don't live there and therefore cannot cast a vote but I can give my opinion, my family being Irish nationalists will always be the reason why I'd like to see a united Ireland but at the end of the day, it's not up to me.
(Original post by Stettin)
At the end of the day THEY shouldn't have to live in a foreign country that they dont' want to be. Let me make this clear. The ones in NI who want to join Ireland are a minority. Those who want to stay in the UK are the majority and those who don't give two ***** since the EU has nullified the borders come second.
I always wonder why people say things like this - it seems to me so obviously flawed. You cannot create states democratically - democracy depends on a stable demos to function.

Nowhere is this more evident than in Ireland. Whilst Ulster/NI/British-community nationalists will identify 'the people' in this matter as the people of Northern Ireland, the Irish nationalists will identify 'the people' as all of Ireland.

Irish nationalists, damned scoundrels though they may be, are at least consistent on this matter. The sort of Ulstermen who claim, however, that Northern Ireland should have some sort of right to decide its own constitutional status, yet simultaneously represent themselves as good Britons, are engaging in an odd sort of double-think.

If you support the British state, you'd better start accepting that it is the British - as a whole - who decide the constitution. Despite making such a big show about their Britishness, so-called Unionists in Northern Ireland are in fact the most divisive group in the UK: many (by no means all of them, of course) seem to believe in a sort of half-in, half-out approach to the Union. This doesn't only relate to their apparent 'right' to align themselves with Britain as they see fit, but also to other political issues: seeing Ian Paisley and his ilk stand up and actively campaign for Northern Ireland to have different laws about issues such as abortion, homosexuality and so forth from the rest of this country whilst calling themselves Unionists is utterly absurd.
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Rawss
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#192
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#192
(Original post by L i b)
Well, presumably the 'Nationalist community' in Northern Ireland take their cultural cues more from the Republic than Great Britain.
Can you not just accept that there are Nationalists living in NI whether you like it or not? We could spend all night wrapping quotation marks around things we dont believe in, but still exist.

Irish nationalists, damned scoundrels though they may be, are at least consistent on this matter.
Can we have some respect please? No need to shout profanities just because someone doesn't accept British rule. I don't understand you at all - you keep digging yourself into a hole with little insulting gems like this, then try cover yourself with an air of respectability and academic reasoning. Then repeat. It's getting pretty repetitative and tiresome.
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Stettin
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#193
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#193
Nowhere is this more evident than in Ireland. Whilst Ulster/NI/British-community nationalists will identify 'the people' in this matter as the people of Northern Ireland, the Irish nationalists will identify 'the people' as all of Ireland.

Irish nationalists, damned scoundrels though they may be, are at least consistent on this matter. The sort of Ulstermen who claim, however, that Northern Ireland should have some sort of right to decide its own constitutional status, yet simultaneously represent themselves as good Britons, are engaging in an odd sort of double-think.

If you support the British state, you'd better start accepting that it is the British - as a whole - who decide the constitution. Despite making such a big show about their Britishness, so-called Unionists in Northern Ireland are in fact the most divisive group in the UK: many (by no means all of them, of course) seem to believe in a sort of half-in, half-out approach to the Union. This doesn't only relate to their apparent 'right' to align themselves with Britain as they see fit, but also to other political issues: seeing Ian Paisley and his ilk stand up and actively campaign for Northern Ireland to have different laws about issues such as abortion, homosexuality and so forth from the rest of this country whilst calling themselves Unionists is utterly absurd.

The Position of the UK hasn't changed. NI is part of the UK until they decide to leave it. So I don't know what your on about.
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Renner
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#194
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#194
(Original post by Rawss)
Can we have some respect please? No need to shout profanities just because someone doesn't accept British rule. I don't understand you at all - you keep digging yourself into a hole with little insulting gems like this, then try cover yourself with an air of respectability and academic reasoning. Then repeat. It's getting pretty repetitative and tiresome.
Respect for the very people who want to break up the country? Respect for people who oppose the very state I support, people who are effectively enemies of said state? I don’t think so.

The flag of NI should reflect the fact its part of the United Kingdom, on a ideological level I see no reason why nationalists who want to cede from the state should have any say in the national flag and as such I would have the Ulster Banner.

Saying that there are practical difficulties with such a plan as no doubt those pesky nationalists would probably take to the street, then there would be counter riots etc etc. As such I don’t mind the current situation where there is no flag for the province and just the Union Flag.
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Rawss
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#195
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#195
(Original post by Renner)
Respect for the very people who want to break up the country? Respect for people who oppose the very state I support, people who are effectively enemies of said state? I don’t think so.
I respect your point of view. Doesn't mean I have to agree with it, or resort to childish name-calling to denounce it.
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Renner
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#196
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#196
(Original post by Rawss)
I respect your point of view. Doesn't mean I have to agree with it, or resort to childish name-calling to denounce it.
I would say I understand the nationalist viewpoint but I don’t respect it, indeed I don’t think a political view is really something that can be respected as respect is something which should be earned. With a view you can either agree or disagree, nothing more.
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L i b
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#197
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#197
(Original post by Stettin)
The Position of the UK hasn't changed. NI is part of the UK until they decide to leave it. So I don't know what your on about.
I think such rhetoric - and you're correct, the UK Government agreed to it in the Good Friday Agreement - is entirely improper. If it is something with any legal effect, then it is an unearned privilege given to a certain group for political reasons, but not to others - and thus wrong.
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L i b
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#198
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#198
(Original post by Rawss)
Can you not just accept that there are Nationalists living in NI whether you like it or not? We could spend all night wrapping quotation marks around things we dont believe in, but still exist.
Whilst obviously there are Nationalists in Northern Ireland, I don't believe there is a homogeneous 'nationalist community' either. Whilst some segregation exists, this sort of thing is as simplistic as using Republican and Catholic as synonyms.
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Psyk
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#199
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#199
What if there was a UK wide referendum to decide whether to hold a NI only referendum? It seems to me that a lot of people in GB are happy to let people in NI decide for themselves. So that way if NI did decide to unify with ROI, the entire UK population has effectively agreed to give it the green light.
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JonathanNorth
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#200
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#200
Only if a high majority of the population of Northern Ireland supported it. But yes, I would like to see an Irish unification with Northern Ireland.
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