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Welsh students who go to welsh universities wont have fees increased Watch

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    (Original post by jb9191)
    It annoys me even more that I have actually been protesting on behalf of the English and then they have attitudes like that.

    At least there are English people like you who have common sense.

    I doubt any of those moaning on here have been to a protest. They just come on here with non-intellectual nonsense about the UK's parliament.

    We are all equal, we are all part of the UK and we all deserve the same treatment. That's why, even with the ignorance the small number of English people have displayed in this thread I will still go to the next protest and fight for future English students.

    All you anti Welsh people really want to get your head sorted out. You're all moaning like the little baby that has spat its dummy out. I seriously recommend you think about what you say and gain some maturity.
    The prejudice against Welsh people is gross tbh. Sometimes it's just friendly banter but freaks on this forum seem to overstep the line. Most likely to be trolls.
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    (Original post by Bulletproof!)
    If not being alive at the time of these grievances is important, then the Welsh should be quiet about them.
    You're the one with the grievances here, as is evidenced by your posts.

    (Original post by Bulletproof!)
    I know that, that's what I'm saying. Nobody only speaks Welsh, so if you're an English speaker you can communicate with everybody.
    Yes, and if you're bilingual you can communicate with everybody and have the advantages of being able to access a wealth of literature, music, and history that may only be available or at least more developed through the medium of Welsh, better job prospects, and a better understanding of the country itself. Minority languages like Welsh are not a barrier to communication because they're nobody's only language. I speak Welsh. It's my second language, learned through school. It has already been proven to be great use to me personally, as being able to say you're bilingual on your CV or personal statement helps greatly. It's also had benefits which are more personal to me; the ability to really appreciate what's going on in eisteddfodau, to read Welsh books and so on. But in no way has the ability to speak Welsh been detrimental to my English or somehow constructed an invisible barrier between me and the rest of the English-speaking world. I have friends who speak both Welsh and English, friends who are English monoglots, and indeed friends who seem to know half the language of Europe. I'm not trapped in my own little bubble of Welshness. I don't like to hear that taxpayers' money is being "wasted" on teaching Welsh, because for me, that Welsh I learned in school has been invaluable.

    (Original post by Bulletproof!)
    The industry was hardly dismantled, the UK government just found that it was to the detriment of the UK to continue to subsidise the industry any longer. If it was an industry that was contributing anything rather than leeching, as is the way in Wales, then the industries would have continued just fine.
    I used the word "decimated", actually, which means something very different to "dismantled". Nevertheless, the fact remains that the industry that was once so prevalent in the South and North-East of Wales is now in a very diminished state. it was the ferocity with which Thatcher and her government went after the miners and their unions which left a sour taste in many people's mouths; had Wales been given time to move away slowly from coal to other occupations, perhaps things would have been different. As it stands, towns like Merthyr Tydfil have yet to pull themselves up again.

    (Original post by Bulletproof!)
    That sums up the problem for me. Someone not speaking Welsh finds it more difficult to find employment in Wales - if the Welsh language wasn't taught in schools then it would become almost extinct, and a lot more people would be able to find work.
    Finding work is always a matter of what skills, experience and qualifications you have. Not having a skill that someone else has is going to put you at a disadvantage. Being able to speak Welsh is a skill. Would you tell companies to stop discriminating against the illiterate because it's unfair? Or to pick the individual with barely no experience dealing with computers over a professional IT programmer? If it wasn't ability to speak Welsh that determined who a company took on, it would be something else; there are only so many jobs and the employer will pick those best suited.

    (Original post by Bulletproof!)
    And I asked for evidence.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11569160
    Scroll down to the section headed "Northern Ireland/Scotland/Wales"

    "Central funding for Wales is to be cut by 7.5% - the Welsh Assembly Government says its budget will be cut by £1.8bn in real terms over four years."

    As opposed to 6.9% in NI and 6.8% in Scotland.

    (Original post by Bulletproof!)
    So it was to get Wales proportionately more money than England...right. And Plaid Cymru are hardly a fringe organisation are they?
    No, it was to get Wales the amount of money it would get if it were analysed by the Treasury as part of England. At the moment, Wales gets £300m less than it should every year simply because it is Wales. If the Barnett Formula worked on the basis of need, Wales would be on an equal footing with England. At the moment, it isn't, because although it gets more money per capita than most (yes, most, not all) English regions, its starting from a much lower base.

    Plaid Cymru are certainly not a fringe party, but they're not the whole of Wales, either. To say that Wales "deserves" to suffer worse cuts than other areas of the UK because one party entered into negotiation with Labour with the hope of getting the £300m Wales is underfunded by is a very unfair position to take.

    (Original post by Bulletproof!)
    It's not racism, it's ethnic criticism.
    To remind you of your earlier post:

    (Original post by Bulletproof!)
    No offence to anyone here, but the Welsh, as a race, are just parasites.
    You were the one to bring up the question of race in the first place. But in my book, whether you're discriminating and insulting along the lines of the colour of a man's skin, nationality or religion, its all racism. Any argument on that point is just a matter of semantics.
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    No I don't think thats accurate at all.
    A lot of it is just friendly banter.
    Hell, my girlfriend is English and I go to uni in England. You think that would be the case if I didn't like the English?



    But the movement for Wales to become independent is so small its essentially irrelevant. Wales is part of the same country as England. Its called the UK.
    Basically the Welsh want it both ways...they want to disrespect the English, have their own government vote for parties which want to be independent and waste UK money on a language which has no use outside of little Welsh hamlets.

    (Original post by CatatonicStupor)
    Have you ever been to Wales? Perpetuates the problem of poor communication? What? Welsh people, even if they go to a Welsh school, have to learn English. I don't know of a single Welsh person who has trouble communicating in English; I know a handful of first-language Gaelic speakers too, and they have no trouble communicating in English. The fact that you want to wipe out a specific part of a country's heritage, specifically linguistic heritage, just makes you seem ignorant.

    It's views like this that drive languages to near-extinction. In the last 150 years, the number of first-language Occitan speakers in the south of France has dropped by 75%. Why? Because of ignorant policies like this, about how it's pointless to speak another language when the national language is French and the people of Occitania live under the control of the French government.
    If you want an example closer to home, Cornish was extinct before people started paying attention to it. Why? It died out because nobody enforced it as a first or second language; only in the last hundred years has a reconstructed Cornish been taught.

    You let a language die out, you let a culture die with it...



    ANYWAY, that's just a side note in all of this. Back to the economics at hand!

    Only around £13million is spent on the Welsh language annually. That's small fry. In terms of tuition fees, the subsidising that will occur in order to live up to these plans will cost the Welsh a lot more than £13million a year, I'd wager.
    The fella before was saying that people can't get jobs if they don't speak Welsh. I assume that's because they struggle with communication, either that or Welsh employers are just racists.

    Cultures survive quite easily independent of language. Culture is about far more than language, it's about shared beliefs, shared interests, shared ideals. If a language is the defining feature of a culture then the culture is bereft of any value.

    (Original post by jb9191)
    Bulletproof - I can say one thing to shut you up instantly.

    You are mocking the Welsh language and how everyone should speak English, yet your country is getting taken over by Muslims and English in some areas is being phased out.

    At least we stand up for our language, a pride of Wales. More than I can say for some English people.
    I'm not mocking the welsh language, I'm saying it's pointless, because nearly every Welsh speaker speaks a more widespread language.

    Also, if we all spoke the same language the world would be extremely boring. Its just your pure ignorance and laziness that means you cannot be bothered to learn a language. Either that or you are too dumb.
    What the bloody hell are you talking about? Why would the world be boring if we all spoke the same language? You must think it's pretty boring already if being able to understand everyone would make the whole thing 'extremely boring.'

    Now, as you are blaming Wales for a lot of things and hardly contributing and being a leech as you put in on the rest of the UK.

    Why is it then that out of £25bn each year in tax avoidance, roughly 87% of it is caused by businesses from England and English people ? Why?
    Well over 82% of the population lives in England, so you'd expect around that amount of any crime to take place in England. Considering English people pay a lot more tax proportionately I'd say 87% is a damn low amount.

    Thats around £20bn ripped out of the system every year illegally by the English. Thanks for contributing to the United Kingdom's parliament - which the Welsh are part of for your information.
    Avoiding tax is perfectly legal.

    ITS NOT ENGLANDS MONEY - ITS THE UK'S MONEY - GET THAT FACT INTO YOUR HEAD !!
    Most of the UK's money belongs to England.

    NOT 1 OF THE 4 MEMBERS OF THE UK PARLIAMENT WOULD COPE WITHOUT EACH OTHER - PROVEN BY PANORAMA YEARS AGO. THEY WOULD HAVE STUDIED IN DEPTH A LOT MORE THAN YOU.
    Excellent, can you post that programme so I can look at it?

    I find it funny that someone from a country that has been destroyed by Scottish PM's has the cheek to disrespect the Welsh.
    How has England been destroyed by Scottish Prime Ministers?
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    (Original post by Lewis :D)
    Wrong. Moldova has electricity train tracks. Iceland, Ireland, Scotland and Albania have no electric tracks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eu...ication_en.svg
    Oh, thanks for that. The politicians have been lying again! Shouldn't be a surprise.
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    I give up bulletproof. Its obvious you don't listen to reason and are just ignorant.
    We don't want it "both ways". We want what is fair.
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    I give up bulletproof. Its obvious you don't listen to reason and are just ignorant.
    We don't want it "both ways". We want what is fair.
    Get out of it, I just don't want to fund an another nation who I don't particularly like, and who don't particularly like me.
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    (Original post by Bulletproof!)
    Get out of it, I just don't want to fund an another nation who I don't particularly like, and who don't particularly like me.
    Where do you get this idea that we don't like the English?
    Most of the time its just a friendly rivalry that both sides give and take. There are very very few Welsh people who actually do not like England.
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    (Original post by Bulletproof!)
    The fella before was saying that people can't get jobs if they don't speak Welsh. I assume that's because they struggle with communication, either that or Welsh employers are just racists.
    Wow, do you have some sort of filtering system built into your ears? That's not what I was saying at all. The ability to speak Welsh is a skill favoured by many employers in Wales - it allows them to offer services in Welsh as well as English, to create Welsh language publications etc. There aren't many places, however, where the ability to speak Welsh is essential. Most of the workforce in Wales can't speak Welsh, so it should be obvious, even to you, that that is not the case. Its a skill. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Kaiser MacCleg)
    You're the one with the grievances here, as is evidenced by your posts.
    Yeah, because it's happening now.

    Yes, and if you're bilingual you can communicate with everybody and have the advantages of being able to access a wealth of literature, music, and history that may only be available or at least more developed through the medium of Welsh, better job prospects, and a better understanding of the country itself. Minority languages like Welsh are not a barrier to communication because they're nobody's only language. I speak Welsh. It's my second language, learned through school. It has already been proven to be great use to me personally, as being able to say you're bilingual on your CV or personal statement helps greatly. It's also had benefits which are more personal to me; the ability to really appreciate what's going on in eisteddfodau, to read Welsh books and so on. But in no way has the ability to speak Welsh been detrimental to my English or somehow constructed an invisible barrier between me and the rest of the English-speaking world. I have friends who speak both Welsh and English, friends who are English monoglots, and indeed friends who seem to know half the language of Europe. I'm not trapped in my own little bubble of Welshness. I don't like to hear that taxpayers' money is being "wasted" on teaching Welsh, because for me, that Welsh I learned in school has been invaluable.
    If Welsh was no longer taught in schools then those works would be translated - that's a lot more efficient than teaching every child unfortunate enough to be brought up in Wales the Welsh language.

    I used the word "decimated", actually, which means something very different to "dismantled". Nevertheless, the fact remains that the industry that was once so prevalent in the South and North-East of Wales is now in a very diminished state. it was the ferocity with which Thatcher and her government went after the miners and their unions which left a sour taste in many people's mouths; had Wales been given time to move away slowly from coal to other occupations, perhaps things would have been different. As it stands, towns like Merthyr Tydfil have yet to pull themselves up again.
    Decimated means reduce by 10%, it was a lot more than that. Wales should have been moving away from failing industries off it's own back, it's not the responsibility of the UK to subsidise them. They should be grateful that they did for so long. It's like if I give you £10 on your birthday every year, then one year I decide to stop doing it, you come to my house and start protesting at me for devastating your life.

    Finding work is always a matter of what skills, experience and qualifications you have. Not having a skill that someone else has is going to put you at a disadvantage. Being able to speak Welsh is a skill. Would you tell companies to stop discriminating against the illiterate because it's unfair? Or to pick the individual with barely no experience dealing with computers over a professional IT programmer? If it wasn't ability to speak Welsh that determined who a company took on, it would be something else; there are only so many jobs and the employer will pick those best suited.
    If the Welsh language didn't exist, that'd be one less obstacle to potential employees...good thing.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11569160
    Scroll down to the section headed "Northern Ireland/Scotland/Wales"

    "Central funding for Wales is to be cut by 7.5% - the Welsh Assembly Government says its budget will be cut by £1.8bn in real terms over four years."

    As opposed to 6.9% in NI and 6.8% in Scotland.
    Ah right, I think we've got our wires crossed here. I don't think you're getting less cuts than Wales, Scotland or Norn Iron, I think you're getting less than England.
    No, it was to get Wales the amount of money it would get if it were analysed by the Treasury as part of England. At the moment, Wales gets £300m less than it should every year simply because it is Wales. If the Barnett Formula worked on the basis of need, Wales would be on an equal footing with England. At the moment, it isn't, because although it gets more money per capita than most (yes, most, not all) English regions, its starting from a much lower base.
    Wales is getting a lot more money per capita, moreover, it's getting a lot more money than it's contributing, that's why I think Wales is a parasitical nation, not because of racism.

    Plaid Cymru are certainly not a fringe party, but they're not the whole of Wales, either. To say that Wales "deserves" to suffer worse cuts than other areas of the UK because one party entered into negotiation with Labour with the hope of getting the £300m Wales is underfunded by is a very unfair position to take.
    If the Welsh people weren't so ungrateful they would be a fringe party. That's part of the reason I feel no kinship with them.

    To remind you of your earlier post:


    You were the one to bring up the question of race in the first place. But in my book, whether you're discriminating and insulting along the lines of the colour of a man's skin, nationality or religion, its all racism. Any argument on that point is just a matter of semantics.
    The debate's not about me, please don't make it so. Debate my points on their own merits, not mine.
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    (Original post by Bulletproof!)
    Basically the Welsh want it both ways...they want to disrespect the English, have their own government vote for parties which want to be independent and waste UK money on a language which has no use outside of little Welsh hamlets.

    No we don't disrespect the English in any way whatsoever. You come on here telling us we **** sheep and what not and then we defend ourselves. You're the ones picking the immature childish fights with stupid references to farm animals - I honestly think you lack an education.


    The fella before was saying that people can't get jobs if they don't speak Welsh. I assume that's because they struggle with communication, either that or Welsh employers are just racists.

    This is true. Have you noticed that in Wales they have bilingual signs to meet the needs of both people who are stronger at Welsh and Welsh people who are stronger at English. S4C is also a Welsh TV channel that contributes a lot of money to the UK every year - you have to be able to speak Welsh. Also, how come there are English workers on S4C that speak Welsh? Its obviously not a pointless language to them - it earns them money and keeps them living.

    Cultures survive quite easily independent of language. Culture is about far more than language, it's about shared beliefs, shared interests, shared ideals. If a language is the defining feature of a culture then the culture is bereft of any value.

    Yes but removing culture is not sharing culture - its removing one and then forcing people of that culture to follow the cultures what are left. As it stands, Wales and the rest of the UK are multi cultural and allow people to follow their cultures without forcing idealogical nonsense on them. Personally, if someone told me I couldn't speak Welsh no more as English is more useful, I'd tell them where to go in Welsh.

    I'm not mocking the welsh language, I'm saying it's pointless, because nearly every Welsh speaker speaks a more widespread language.

    You said its pointless. That's mocking it. You seem to be very unaware of your own points. Also tell that to the many English people who speak Welsh to get jobs. It provides them with a living.

    In the eyes of the Spanish, Argentinians and Portuguese they may think English is pointless. Also, English is not the most spoken language in the world, Chinese mandarin is. Also, being bilingual is a skill.

    What the bloody hell are you talking about? Why would the world be boring if we all spoke the same language? You must think it's pretty boring already if being able to understand everyone would make the whole thing 'extremely boring.'

    If everyone spoke the same language it would be. There wouldn't be culture to learn about and people would be ideologically forcefully mixed without teaching them about their own cultural values. Cultural teachings have made the UK the country it is today. You can only learn from a number of different values, you cannot learn if everyone is of the same blueprint. Also, you thinking everyone should speak English is absolutely pathetic seeing as Chinese mandarin is the most spoken language in the world. Maybe we should all learn that.

    Well over 82% of the population lives in England, so you'd expect around that amount of any crime to take place in England. Considering English people pay a lot more tax proportionately I'd say 87% is a damn low amount.

    No. You wouldn't at all. £20bn is not a low amount. Funny how so many English tax payers were moaning about Ireland being bailed out for £8bn. Thats £12bn more. Maybe you want to start looking closer to home. Also, population density is not a way to justify criminal activity.

    Avoiding tax is perfectly legal.

    I meant evasion which is illegal. Also, I find it very funny that you defend them for committing the crimes yet its them criminals that mean other sectors get punished in the cut. If that money was saved for 10 years then we would be £250bn better off and far better in terms of the economy. We could then pump that money into education, health and transport. I really think you have no idea what you are on about.
    Most of the UK's money belongs to England.

    Excellent, can you post that programme so I can look at it?

    It was years ago. Look it up yourself or are you someone with so little motivation and ability that you need others to do it for you.

    How has England been destroyed by Scottish Prime Ministers?
    Tony Blair & Gordon Brown.

    One took Britain into a false war that cost the UK economy billions and the lives of many.

    Both caused devastation to the financial structure of the country and drove the country into trillions of debt.

    The main reason for the cuts today. Who are the majority voters? The English, yet you let them get away with it. Well done.

    See how we can all blame each other easily.
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    (Original post by Bulletproof!)
    Get out of it, I just don't want to fund an another nation who I don't particularly like, and who don't particularly like me.
    Grow up !

    If you are in university then I feel sorry for that institution taking on such an uneducated bigot.

    If you are planning on going to university then I'm glad the fee's are going up so uneducated people like you cannot go to university at the expense of the taxpayer and waste money.

    Most Welsh people like the English. We are all part of the UK.

    Why would we be against you? Some of us in Wales are just as well off, or better off than a lot of the English.

    Don't assume we come from a poor background, with a rubbish language and a country with cold weather - we don't.

    There is hardly any difference whatsoever apart from bilingual signs and a minority of people who are bilingual. A skill they obtained.
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    (Original post by Bulletproof!)
    The fella before was saying that people can't get jobs if they don't speak Welsh. I assume that's because they struggle with communication, either that or Welsh employers are just racists.

    Cultures survive quite easily independent of language. Culture is about far more than language, it's about shared beliefs, shared interests, shared ideals. If a language is the defining feature of a culture then the culture is bereft of any value.
    1. Welsh employers prefer people to be able to speak Welsh because the Welsh people have the right to choose which is their first language. If I spoke Welsh (more than my shoddy pidgin Welsh) I'd have the right to speak it; if nobody in an office is vaguely proficient with that language, it defeats the object and denies me my right to speak my chosen language.
    It just comes down to letting people stick to their preferences. It's the same in Catalonia - to get a job there, however, you must have a basic knowledge of Catalan so that, should someone wish to speak Catalan to you rather than Spanish, you can communicate. Freedom of Speech and ting.

    2. But one could argue they are not the same culture. Without language, how do you tell stories? Without language, how would you argue this point? Without language, how would someone in future generations understand this point?

    It's not necessarily that the culture will be dead, but it won't be exactly the same. In some cases, it will remain frozen, in others it will be assimilated and therefore not be the same culture. If you look at, if the Normans hadn't been involved, the English language would be totally different, and you might not have Chaucer or Shakespeare; there's a loss (and a gaining) of culture right there. Language is a part of culture, and culture is a force that drives language to change...

    Show me a culture where the language has died and the culture has remained intact. Can you? I can't think of one. Either the original language has been pushed to second-class status, prompting a resurgence at a later time (Galician, Catalan, Welsh...), or it has died out and the culture has gone with it too (Cumbric, Gothic, Gaulish, Hittite, Tocharian...the list goes on)
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    (Original post by Bulletproof!)
    If Welsh was no longer taught in schools then those works would be translated - that's a lot more efficient than teaching every child unfortunate enough to be brought up in Wales the Welsh language.
    What a delightfully rose-tinted way of looking at things. I find it hard to believe that anyone would, for instance, create a feature-length English version of Hedd Wyn. Besides, to translate them, you need people to speak the language. If you lose the language, you diminish the culture. Some of it would survive, some would be assimilated, some would simply vanish. Why do you think there are no vestiges of Brythonic culture in England? Why do you think Cumbric culture has vanished, along with the language? The language has been of particular importance in Wales because, unlike in Scotland, Welsh law was abolished in its entirety during the time of Henry VIII. Both law and language, of course, are important in defining the separateness of a nation, so when the Laws of Hywel Dda were finally forbidden, the language became the focal point around which a Welsh national identity was preserved. Similarly, important symbols of nationhood - the crown jewels of the Prince of Aberffraw, for instance, vanished during the conquest, and the Church of England had exerted its authority over the Welsh dioceses since even further back. That's why the language is such an important thing to Wales, even when 4/5 of the country doesn't speak it: it defined the culture of Wales for many centuries, and still, to a degree, does.

    (Original post by Bulletproof!)
    If the Welsh language didn't exist, that'd be one less obstacle to potential employees...good thing.
    No it wouldn't. The only way to increase the number of people in work is to increase the number of jobs. Surely even you can grasp that fact. If employers were not taking people on based on their linguistic capabilities, then they would take people on the basis of other criteria, and those less suited to the role would remain out of work. In short, it wouldn't make any difference whatsoever. The only effects of the Welsh language's non-existence would be the further erosion of Welsh culture and national identity.

    (Original post by Bulletproof!)
    Ah right, I think we've got our wires crossed here. I don't think you're getting less cuts than Wales, Scotland or Norn Iron, I think you're getting less than England.
    Then the onus is on you to find the figures for that.

    (Original post by Bulletproof!)
    Wales is getting a lot more money per capita, moreover, it's getting a lot more money than it's contributing, that's why I think Wales is a parasitical nation, not because of racism.
    No, not a lot more. Wales gets £9,209 per head according to the treasury's own figures, less than both NI and Scotland. The UK average is £8,206, and while on that basis Wales does get significantly more, it is not out of line with the North East, at £8,930 (the North East is, of course, very comparable to Wales economically - once industrious, coal-dependent, etc.), or London, which gets more than Wales does at £9,464. Are these regions also "leeches" then? It should be pretty easy to work out that the more deprived areas of a country should receive more funding anyway; they have more social and economic problems to deal with and have to work harder to attract inward investment and to regenerate their urban areas. Sadly, this isn't wholly taken into account in Wales though as I have been saying.

    Besides, a nation is essentially a group of people with a shared identity, culture or language. In saying that "Wales is a parasitical nation", you are saying that the people of Wales are parasites, which is an incredibly sweeping (and insulting) statement to make and definitely falls under the umbrella of racism. In doing so you are taking into account only economic factors and even then only those of today. Go back into the nineteenth century and Wales was most certainly a net creditor to the UK (coal being the obvious example; without the coal of the South Wales coalfield the industrial revolution would have been a rather short-lived affair). And can a nation not contribute more than just cold, hard cash to a country anyway?

    (Original post by Bulletproof!)
    If the Welsh people weren't so ungrateful they would be a fringe party. That's part of the reason I feel no kinship with them.
    Why? Even Plaid Cymru see independence as a "long-term aspiration". They're perfectly moderate, nothing like the BNP. They even had the first AM from an ethnic minority (who then defected to the tories, bah! ). They just see self determination as a right to any nation, a view I'm not wholly closed to. In all other respects, they're a left-wing, progressive party, with some staunchly environmentalist and internationalist policies. Its got nothing to do with being "ungrateful".

    (Original post by Bulletproof!)
    The debate's not about me, please don't make it so. Debate my points on their own merits, not mine.
    It is wholly about you. The debate was supposed to be on tuition fees in Wales but you have turned it into something else entirely with your post, and I'm afraid, if you come out with a comment like " the Welsh, as a race, are just parasites", then I have the right to call you out on that.
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    (Original post by Bulletproof!)
    If Welsh was no longer taught in schools then those works would be translated - that's a lot more efficient than teaching every child unfortunate enough to be brought up in Wales the Welsh language.
    But in translation they'd only be half of what they are now! Take Welsh poetry, with Cynghanedd and the nuances of sounds. It wouldn't be half as good translated. Old Welsh songs and pieces of culture and history would be lost. And for the record, I'm not of Welsh heritage, and I consider it fortunate that I was brought up here and learnt the language.

    Cenedl heb iaith, cenedl heb galon.

    And don't make it seem like it's England being generous handing out free money to Scotland, NI and Wales. We're the UK, not 'ENGLAND + a few extra little countries'.
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    My knee-jerk reaction is how unfair it would be to charge English students that much and not Welsh students, but having moved here, they need all the help they can get.

    Wales is very deprived. With the exception of Cardiff, it's like going in a time warp 10 years back. No one has any money, there aren't any jobs, public health is poor. I find the tuition fees and healthcare provision discrepancies between Wales and England unfair, but other than pouring money into the country I don't really see what else can be done. I would be interested to know if the disproportionate amount of funding Wales has received has actually produced any results. I think it would be harsh to deprive Wales of all the money they can get but at the same time I don't know what else can be done to improve the situation.
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    (Original post by Bulletproof!)
    Basically the Welsh want it both ways...they want to disrespect the English, have their own government vote for parties which want to be independent and waste UK money on a language which has no use outside of little Welsh hamlets.
    Your comments on the Welsh language in this thread ****ing enrage me. I can't comprehend how utterly ignorant of non-English culture you are. Do you realise how important Welsh is to us in Wales? Even to those of us who don't even speak it? You said that your dream is that everyone in the world can speak to each other in one language? What would that be, English? Let's just get rid of every language in the world - Norwegian, nobody can speak that outside of Norway... they all speak English though, why the hell do they teach their kids Norwegian? And Dutch? That can go too. **** you.

    And people complain about the resentment that the Welsh/Scottish/Irish hold for England. It's ignorant English views like this that cause that.
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    In the last couple of pages I have been accused of being a racist, someone has said I said the Welsh boffed farm animals (I NEVER said that), been accused of being a bigot, and called a freak or troll. Some genius said a university would be worthy of pity for having someone uneducated joining them, how the hell would I qualify to attend a University if I were not educated.

    I am above this. I did not come here to trade abuse, I came here to express a view on the Welsh government's policy, which turns their people into parasites on the English. I've explained why the Welsh language is regressive, the point of any language is communication, and superfluous languages hinder communication.

    I've made my points, I've supported them without trying to offend anyone - read my initial post here. Unfortunately you people don't extend the same courtesy to me, but I am better than you people, I don't expect it.

    (Original post by Dusty12)
    And don't make it seem like it's England being generous handing out free money to Scotland, NI and Wales. We're the UK, not 'ENGLAND + a few extra little countries'.
    That's exactly what it is. The UK couldn't survive without England, it could get along quite nicely without any of those extra little countries .
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    (Original post by Curzon)
    Your comments on the Welsh language in this thread ****ing enrage me. I can't comprehend how utterly ignorant of non-English culture you are. Do you realise how important Welsh is to us in Wales? Even to those of us who don't even speak it? You said that your dream is that everyone in the world can speak to each other in one language? What would that be, English? Let's just get rid of every language in the world - Norwegian, nobody can speak that outside of Norway... they all speak English though, why the hell do they teach their kids Norwegian? And Dutch? That can go too. **** you.

    And people complain about the resentment that the Welsh/Scottish/Irish hold for England. It's ignorant English views like this that cause that.
    For me, ideally it would be English, but Esperanto would probably be better.

    If the Welsh/Scottish/Norn Irish resent England so much they should withdraw from the United Kingdom.

    I'm withdrawing from this now.
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    (Original post by Bulletproof!)
    If the Welsh/Scottish/Norn Irish resent England so much they should withdraw from the United Kingdom..
    But for the most part we don't.
    The only resentment we hold is towards ignorant fools like you.
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    (Original post by Bulletproof!)
    In the last couple of pages I have been accused of being a racist, someone has said I said the Welsh boffed farm animals (I NEVER said that), been accused of being a bigot, and called a freak or troll. Some genius said a university would be worthy of pity for having someone uneducated joining them, how the hell would I qualify to attend a University if I were not educated.

    I am above this. I did not come here to trade abuse, I came here to express a view on the Welsh government's policy, which turns their people into parasites on the English. I've explained why the Welsh language is regressive, the point of any language is communication, and superfluous languages hinder communication.

    I've made my points, I've supported them without trying to offend anyone - read my initial post here. Unfortunately you people don't extend the same courtesy to me, but I am better than you people, I don't expect it.
    Yes, let's get your first post on this page too just so we don't forget what we're talking about:

    (Original post by Bulletproof!)
    No offence to anyone here, but the Welsh, as a race, are just parasites. They leech money from the important parts of the UK, then have the nerve to piss and moan about signs not being printed in their silly little unnecessary language, and have the audacity to waste a load of our money on teaching Welsh to children. Now they want to be spared from the cuts? They can f*ck off as far as I'm concerned, the sooner they get their independence, the better.
    Here we have an argument that consists of nothing but sweeping, offensive remarks about an entire nation, not with any coherent purpose, or any sort of evidence to back it up; just an unsubstantiated attack on the Welsh people. We're "parasites" who "piss and moan", who have a "silly and unnecessary language". And of course, it ends with the obligatory expletive. If you don't keep views like that to yourself, you shouldn't be surprised when you get attacked for it.

    No mention, mind you, of the Assembly Government's policy on tuition fees, which you say you came here to express your view on. In fact, in all your posts (and yes, I checked), I see nothing that bears any relation to that specific policy, though there is a vague statement that you "don't like a lot of the backwards policies of the Welsh government" (though I don't see what's backwards about them...a lot of the stuff that's come out of the One Wales agreement has been far more progressive than the stuff that's been coming out of Westminster), and of course the rant on the terrible evil of bilingual road signs.

    You certainly haven't "explained why the Welsh language is regressive", either. You've explained why you think it is, but again this is all unsubstantiated stuff on a touchy topic.

    So don't cry foul. You came to this thread with the sole purpose of posting inflammatory comments that certainly succeeded in getting my back up and a lot of others', too. When you put the cat amongst the pigeons you shouldn't act surprised when you get sh*t on.
 
 
 
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