Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

Poorer students will now get 2 free years uni. another attack on middle income family Watch

    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    1 - Class is not defined by just income.
    2 - I disagree with £20,000 being "middle class"? You are still talking quite a bit less than the average wage.
    3 - From what has been said so far, it appears like the 1 / 2 free years will be for those who get free school meals. So pretty much the poorest of the working class.
    you say class is not defined by income- but the OP is defining class by incoming, saying middle class people will be worst effected whereas the working class wont.

    A middle income is around £24,00, being the 'average' income of the whole country.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by coffee-spoons)
    you say class is not defined by income- but the OP is defining class by incoming, saying middle class people will be worst effected whereas the working class wont.

    A middle income is around £24,00, being the 'average' income of the whole country.
    Middle class =/= the average income.
    If you look in history middle class meant above the average wealth and sociel standing of the average person. Because there were SO many working class people due to the certain proffessions and such we had. This is why the class system is a bit too old to relate to modern times. Plus we have lower and upper middle class, so we have to distinguish, as they are very different too
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jamesman13)
    another attack on middle income families
    Yeah, look at this huge assault delivered by the government on middle income families, proper vicious attack.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Winter Rain)
    Again, just because it's not LIKELY, it still happens, and therefor is irrelevant to the question I'm asking. Those people deserve the same amount of help as someone from a poor background in my opinion, anyone who's got no one to support them while a university needs the same amount of support.
    I think it's you guys who're missing the point I'm making, if a person from a poor background get a place at university, same as someone from a rich background, and neither are recieving parental support, they should both in future be able to get a job to pay back to loans they had to take to study there in the first place. BOTH of them. If help is going to be given to anyone, it should be available to EVERYONE WHO NEEDS IT. So once again, regardless of how unlikely it is to happen, WHY do those whos familys won't support them, not deserve the same amount of support as someone whos parents can't?

    And if a student can support themselfs, of course then they clearly don't need the help, regardless of they are from a poor or wealthy background, but those people still worked to save up, and don't forget that.
    I dont know how things work in YOUR HEAD when you expect the government TO create different RULES FOR EVERY SINGLE POSSIBLE CASE OUT THERE. We can only work on statistics and STATISTICALLY people from poorer backgrounds will need more HELPthe someone from a middle INCOME household. How impractical WOULD IT be IF the government catered FOR EVERY POSSIBLE SITUATION a student could possibly have. Its RIDICULOUS. If someone comes from A MIDDLE INCOME HOUSEHOLD then they can afford payments and whether there parents will help them or not IS IRRELEVANT. Are you telling me this person will get NO HELP AT ALL? SERIOUSLY? So even if they have no money at all there parents wont help? BULL****.

    (I can write in capitals as well)
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by win5ton)
    This has got nothing to do with families (and you are making some hideously naive comments to do with middle income families). The coalition have said that you will only start to pay off your debt when you are earning 21,000. So why should anyone have some of their debt paid when they are apparently earning enough to start to pay off their debt?
    it might act as a further deterrent in case it doesn't work out, and they don't have the safety net most people from middle class family will have...
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by morecambebay)
    It has everything to do with your parents, their income and your background. As shown by the article, the gap grows and grows. Because you are not from a poor family your attainment is much higher than it would have been if you were...and the difference increases with education. You are more able to succeed because of your background.

    Statistically, (because thats what is used- statistics) you will not be out done by somebody from a poor family.
    You are totally right, people from middle income and richer families have a huge head start in terms of life opportunities, including education, also health. For a child from a poverty stricken family to get to the point where they are in a position to even contemplate going to university is a triumph over adversity, making it a bit easier for them fianncially is fair morally and economically.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Why should the help I get be based on how my parents lives have panned out financially?

    Why does the SLC & Government assume I will get help from them if they earn so much?

    Why isn't everyone given the same amount ? After all we are a country fighting for equality so we should all have the same help

    Why is parents income even taken into consideration at the age of 18+ ? Surely you are an adult and therefore are an independent.

    Why is money being wasted elsewhere instead of it being used to educate the future of Britain? I.e. Vodafone let off £6bn tax bill, Topman let off tax bill, £8bn in aid to Ireland, Billions in foreign aid which are either going to corrupt governments or used to better their systems when it should be ours as its our money.

    Why are the politicians proposing such things allowed a free education yet now they want to stop the young of today from the same entitlement?

    -These are the questions that should be asked to those political bigots.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mann18)
    Isn't it awful? Imagine, people being asked to help others. You do realise that the same people that are being helped may one day be your doctor, and they wouldn't have chosen that career path had they not recieved help?
    It should be MY choice whether I want to help people or not - I shouldn't have that choice taken from me. Lol if you won't consider that path unless you have handouts, then that says an awful lot about you...


    Well this is just insane. Logically, very few people choose what pay they recieve, otherwise, everyone would be trillionaires.

    I assume you mean "people can work hard and then they get a better income?"
    OK, so then people who go to war, and have a leg blown off, have sort of chosen to become disabled. Indirectly, like the income, but a choice that led to something nevertheless.
    That's completely different. If someone is injured in an accident, then it isn't their fault. Yes, they knew there were dangers, so I do see what you're saying. However, with a blown off leg, you can sit on a chair. You can operate a computer. Therefore, you do not need state handouts long term. Thus, our hypothetical soldior can help himself. Much like someone living off state handouts can (unless they are severely disabled, e.g paraplegic).

    The doctor thing. It's not just the individual that suffers.
    There's plenty more.


    The field is not even at the start of the game, to then right it and claim that the score is correct is insane.
    Explain?
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jb9191)
    Why should the help I get be based on how my parents lives have panned out financially?

    Because it is parents who will help people financially with university if they were able to, hence why people who have more money for the most part get stuff paid for them at uni (i said for the most part, dont need no moaning at me)

    Why does the SLC & Government assume I will get help from them if they earn so much?

    Because for the most part people do, just because YOU dont doesnt mean the government should stop all plans just to cater for you, the things they propose help most people, not all, it is impossible to help all.

    Why isn't everyone given the same amount ? After all we are a country fighting for equality so we should all have the same help

    Ok, so everyone gets the same pay at their job and suhc, because thats equality too right? :facepalm:

    Why is parents income even taken into consideration at the age of 18+ ? Surely you are an adult and therefore are an independent.

    Because people who go in to university mostly wont have full time jobs, and any part time jobs they have wont be very beneficial to helping towards university. I still lived with my parents after i turned 18 tili moved to uni. As a very very high percentage of students do. Thus you are living with them, thus you are still their responsibility and they are your parents.. they will help you.. in general.. with university costs.
    Why is money being wasted elsewhere instead of it being used to educate the future of Britain? I.e. Vodafone let off £6bn tax bill, Topman let off tax bill, £8bn in aid to Ireland, Billions in foreign aid which are either going to corrupt governments or used to better their systems when it should be ours as its our money.

    Why are the politicians proposing such things allowed a free education yet now they want to stop the young of today from the same entitlement?

    What? So now your moaning at the government for not giving us free university education? ... :Facepalm:

    -These are the questions that should be asked to those political bigots.
    Silly post.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lewroll)
    You lose out? Oh poor you? Please enlighten us as to what you are missing out on? I'm sure we will all feel your pain. Curse that bloody government, helping all those poor people when there are all these middle class people in much more need of their help.
    -40 and 50% tax rates.
    -No EMA
    -No Child Benefit (from 2013)
    -No free textbooks


    Just a few things where the middle classes are penalised. I'm not saying everyone should get EMA or whatever, just showing examples of where we lose out.

    Also, with this new procedure, the people who get 2 free years will essentially get uni at the same price as before. Middle and Upper Class people will have our fees trippled. Blatant discrimination!

    Because if everyone paid the same fees, then all the poorer students (many of whom will be smarter than you) wont be able to go to university. A university for the rich doesnt sound like a very attractive place does it (well it probably does to you).
    Student loans? Maintainance grants? Hardship funds?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    It's not just about the money though right, it would surely act as an incentive to get more working class kids into higher education? isn't that the main aim?
    Offline

    4
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Tabers)
    Yes but there are many other things which are more important than my tuition fees. They have to pay for mortgages and pay off cards and stuff after bringing me up and they still have to pay for everything for my brother. They see it as I'm an adult so then it is my responsibility.
    My parents pay my fees and they don't earn that much. My dad earns £50k a year, which is a good wage but it doesn't go that far (it's not like surgeons on £100k p.a.) and my mum only works part-time. It's about priorities - your parents chose a bigger house (if they're still paying off their mortgage then they bought above their means) over giving you the best head-start in life they could afford.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    The government keeps telling us we don't have to "fork out" or "reach into our back pocket" for these fee rises yet they are going to be helping out the poorest kids. Now, if it's not going to affect us, these fees, until after university, they'll be exactly the same as (most of) us. So what's the point when they'll be paying them off the same uni fees at the same time as us - after earning £15,000 pa just like the rest?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    If middle and upper class families are getting more help from home for their fees, why are they all taking these massive loans that they are going to have to pay off later on in life? I don't see why your background should penalise you when you are a fully grown adult. Why did I pay 9k for my degree, when someone with a single parent down the road paid nothing? Perhaps if my family weren't burdened with taxes to pay for other peoples children to go to university they could have paid it off.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by .Ali.)
    -40 and 50% tax rates.
    -No EMA
    -No Child Benefit (from 2013)
    -No free textbooks


    Just a few things where the middle classes are penalised. I'm not saying everyone should get EMA or whatever, just showing examples of where we lose out.

    Also, with this new procedure, the people who get 2 free years will essentially get uni at the same price as before. Middle and Upper Class people will have our fees trippled. Blatant discrimination!



    Student loans? Maintainance grants? Hardship funds?
    Large fees will put many poor students off uni regardless of the help availiable. They are probably afraid of having huge debts and remaining poor. The amount of low income students in university in the past proves this point.

    Upper class people will be able to pay off any fee realistically. Middle class people will be in the same boat. However middle income families will have more problems. From reading your past posts I could make a pretty good guess at saying that you arent middle income. Amiright?

    As for EMA (which is being killed btw) and free textbooks, its obvious to see why a poor student would need these things whereas another student wouldnt.

    There arent enough poor students going to university. This figure needs to be increased.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Perhaps if my family weren't burdened with taxes to pay for other peoples children to go to university they could have paid it off.
    I hope you are not naive enough to suggest taxes would be lower if we had a fully independent university system.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Lewroll)
    Large fees will put many poor students off uni regardless of the help availiable. They are probably afraid of having huge debts and remaining poor. The amount of low income students in university in the past proves this point.
    Well I have to have debts too. Yes, my parents will assist me, but I'll still have to pay some of it. I'll still have debts. If you can't see the long term benefits, then frankly, maybe you shouldn't be at uni.

    Upper class people will be able to pay off any fee realistically. Middle class people will be in the same boat. However middle income families will have more problems. From reading your past posts I could make a pretty good guess at saying that you arent middle income. Amiright?
    maybe so, but it shouldn't cost more for the same thing! Lol yes I am middle income.

    As for EMA (which is being killed btw) and free textbooks, its obvious to see why a poor student would need these things whereas another student wouldnt.
    And if people were responsible with money in the first place, they wouldn't rely on the taxpayer.

    There arent enough poor students going to university. This figure needs to be increased.
    Lol no we don't. We need the best students, be they working, middle, or upper class. When you impose quotas, or try to increase figures, that's when posetive discrimination starts, and that's wrong.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by .Ali.)
    And if people were responsible with money in the first place, they wouldn't rely on the taxpayer.
    Right, so you have just said that everyone who is poor only has themselves to blame? :rolleyes:
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    I hope you are not naive enough to suggest taxes would be lower if we had a fully independent university system.
    It doesn't make any sense that any of my parents taxes should go towards others when they cannot afford to pay for me...
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    Right, so you have just said that everyone who is poor only has themselves to blame? :rolleyes:
    Not everyone, a lot of people though, yes.

    If they saved or invested some money for 'a rainy day' so to speak, maybe they would have something to tide them over when they need it?
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Will you be richer or poorer than your parents?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.